Do you need premium bullets/ammo for hunting?

[58thecat]

placed correctly

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Demonical

Over analyze

It's AO man. Cut some slack. LOL.

If the OP only asked do you need premium, it would be a short thread. Answer is unequivocally a big loud no.

Instead, he asked that as well as asking are they worth the money, and are there any advantages.

So, we are on page 7

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sns2

Clearly we agree that a monometal or bonded bullet offers better bone-breaking penetration which allows the hunter to take a shot he would not/should not feel comfortable with a cup and core.

By that logic we should all be shooting large caliber magnums. After all one can never be too prepared and we owe it to the quarry.

What do you think - would a 300 gr. .375 cal. cup and core offer more bone breaking penetration than 110 gr. .25 cal. mono? (and don't worry if you haven't used either of those, this is AO and dreamed up thought exercises will be fine - so long as you agree with me. If not I will question your experience.)

It has been my experience that a 150 gr. Sierra Boat Tail from my 270 has more than enough bone breaking penetration to perform reliably in any situation on deer sized game. I have shot moose and elk with them, but now load Grand Slams when targeting those animals with the 270 (I got a good deal on a couple hundred of them for 1/4 the price). I would say with 100% confidence that every animal shot with the Grand Slams would have been just as dead with the Sierra's.

[leo]

My opinion for what it's worth.
I've held an Alberta Hunting License for 42 years. In that time I've shot more animals than memory serves, with cartridges from 303 British, to 340 Weatherby, and countless in between. All animals were shot at distances of 5 yards to 500. Bullets most used tended to be heavy for caliber cup and core bullets, and all animals fairly hit perished. Some ran, some keeled over after a few steps, the odd one piled up in its tracks. When I started shooting Magnums pretty well exclusively, I still used cup and core Nosler Partitions. My theory was that I want to use the best bullet I can that will dispatch the animal cleanly, without failing. This it did admirably. About 8 years ago I started switching to Barnes TSX/TTSX, again mostly shooting magnums. All animals fairly hit expired. Again, I used the best bullet I could load in my boomer of choice. I consider it my moral duty to use the best quality equipment I can afford, that includes gun, scope, bino's and ammunition. The animals we hunt deserve no less. I have on the rare occasion, found a gun that didn't like Barnes or Nosler Partition offerings, so I'd try bonded bullets. Do you need to spend $1/ bullet to kill an animal? Of course not. My moral compass leads me in the direction of doing so, only for my piece of mind. I am in no way insinuating that you or anyone else needs to either. It is my choice to do so, and because I hand load, it gives me the option of tailoring the load for the accuracy I expect, as well as the terminal performance at the given ranges I tend to hunt at. As mentioned earlier, if your bullet velocity is starting out at 2800 + FPS, you may want to look at using a good Cup/core (either bonded or dual core) or a mono metal bullet to ensure the best outcome at all reasonable ranges. And, don't forget that they can fail too. That is why the most important object of hunting, is the skill of putting the projectile in the right spot in the first place.

Leo.

[Demonical]

Well the op was do you need premium?

Obvious answer = NO!!

Are there advantages of 'so-called' premium? = YES!!

Greatest bullet available today (IMHO). Nosler Accubond.

And I handload, pretty much every animal I've shot over the last 30 years have been with handloaded 'premium' bullets: Nosler Partition, Nosler Accubond, and Woodleigh, huge fan of Woodleigh bullets.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

By that logic we should all be shooting large caliber magnums. After all one can never be too prepared and we owe it to the quarry.

What do you think - would a 300 gr. .375 cal. cup and core offer more bone breaking penetration than 110 gr. .25 cal. mono? (and don't worry if you haven't used either of those, this is AO and dreamed up thought exercises will be fine - so long as you agree with me. If not I will question your experience.)

It has been my experience that a 150 gr. Sierra Boat Tail from my 270 has more than enough bone breaking penetration to perform reliably in any situation on deer sized game. I have shot moose and elk with them, but now load Grand Slams when targeting those animals with the 270 (I got a good deal on a couple hundred of them for 1/4 the price). I would say with 100% confidence that every animal shot with the Grand Slams would have been just as dead with the Sierra's.

A) If we could all shoot a 375 H & H accurately, then you are correct. However, you know that to not be the case.

B) We agree if you actually read my posts instead of just reacting to them. I have shot more moose with cup and cores than anything else, simply because of only hunting with bonded/monos/partitions since 2000, as well as the introduction of partner tags which I use for friends/young hunters. I have only killed one moose that I feel would not have worked with a cup and core. However, in that one instance, I sure was glad I was shooting a 160 Partition out of a 7 Rem as opposed to a Sierra Gameking (which is a devestating bullet if placed right).

I'm pretty sure you and I see the issue the same, but personalities, mine included, are fueling this thread. And that is A-OK.

As I have said before, 70k member circle jerks are pretty boring.

I also think we caught Leo on a bad night when he got pizzed at me and a few others, as there has been nothing in this thread that is any big deal or worthy of hitting the red triangle. Just my 2 cents.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sns2

A) If we could all shoot a 375 H & H accurately, then you are correct. However, you know that to not be the case.

B) We agree if you actually read my posts instead of just reacting to them. I have shot more moose with cup and cores than anything else, simply because of only hunting with bonded/monos/partitions since 2000, as well as the introduction of partner tags which I use for friends/young hunters. I have only killed one moose that I feel would not have worked with a cup and core. However, in that one instance, I sure was glad I was shooting a 160 Partition out of a 7 Rem as opposed to a Sierra Gameking (which is a devestating bullet if placed right).

I'm pretty sure you and I see the issue the same, but personalities, mine included, are fueling this thread. And that is A-OK.

As I have said before, 70k member circle jerks are pretty boring.

I also think we caught Leo on a bad night when he got pizzed at me and a few others, as there has been nothing in this thread that is any big deal or worthy of hitting the red triangle. Just my 2 cents.

Whaaa?? You're going to bring accuracy into it? Wasn't that the argument for the premium bullet - What does it matter if I miss a little bit - I have the bone breaking penetration to get 'er done! Or was that the argument for magnumitis?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Whaaa?? You're going to bring accuracy into it? Wasn't that the argument for the premium bullet - What does it matter if I miss a little bit - I have the bone breaking penetration to get 'er done! Or was that the argument for magnumitis?

Now you're playing make believe to win an argument?

If you haven't made a bad shot yet...get out hunting more

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Keg has guided for many moons and just want to know if he has experienced how these bullets performed in the field is all.....your right though the thread kinda spun off a bit but made for great conversation...like sitting around a fire sharing perspectives after a long day in the Feld.

The answer is yes. I have hunted with and shot bonded and mono.

But one does not have to use either to know what they can and can not do.
Observation is a wonderful tool that many underestimate.

I learned to hunt by observing some of the best hunters in the business. Some call them cats, others call them pets.

I learned to shoot by observing one of the best, a WW2 veteran trained as a sniper.

I learned to weld by observing. In fact I've learned a lot more by observing then by reading. Too many books were written by people who learned from books, not from observation or doing.

I've tracked too many animals shot with bonded or mono bullets from clients rifles. I've also helped butcher every animal a client harvested.

Each added to my understanding of what mono and bonded can and can not do.
I would bet a good many of the mono and bonded fans have harvested fewer animals and seen less then I have.
Yet I know very well that there is a lot I have not seen and a lot I do not know about what is possible and what can go wrong.

Bottom line is I know just enough to know they are not a must have.

[bdub]

In all my years of hunting and killing everything from grizzly to whitetail etc., not once have I wished I was shooting a frangible bullet on big game. If your screwing up on game using a controlled expansion premium bullet the only one you can blame is yourself and your poor shooting.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

If you haven't made a bad shot yet...get out hunting more

Just a couple of years ago on a nice WT buck - followed the blood trail for a just over a mile before it petered out entirely. Watched the area for weeks afterward for any sign but nothing. Shooting 190 Accubonds from a 300 WSM at 150 yards.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Just a couple of years ago on a nice WT buck - followed the blood trail for a just over a mile before it petered out entirely. Watched the area for weeks afterward for any sign but nothing. Shooting 190 Accubonds from a 300 WSM at 150 yards.

Never knew they made a 190gr 308 cal accubond

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Never knew they made a 190gr 308 cal accubond

https://shop.nosler.com/accubond-lr-...let-100ct.html

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

https://shop.nosler.com/accubond-lr-...let-100ct.html

That’s not an the same

Less controlled expansion
More shrapnel for the sake of a higher bc
Very similar performance to a standard cup and core bullet

[sns2]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

That’s not an the same

Less controlled expansion
More shrapnel for the sake of a higher bc
Very similar performance to a standard cup and core bullet

Shouldn't even calls those buggers Accubonds they are so frangible in comparison to a regular Accubond.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sns2

Shouldn't even calls those buggers Accubonds they are so frangible in comparison to a regular Accubond.

300 yards, 1/2" plate. Some of the other divots on there are from Partitions.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

300 yards, 1/2" plate. Some of the other divots on there are from Partitions.

Divots mean expansion
Holes mean lack of expansion

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Divots mean expansion
Holes mean lack of expansion

So you are thinking that the very frangible ABLR didn't expand?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

So you are thinking that the very frangible ABLR didn't expand?

If I was punching clean holes through ar plate steel at 300 yards I would think something is wrong

[huntwat]

Ft/lbs of energy is what makes holes through steel. I’m thinking the bullet that went through weighed more than the others, if it was out of the same cartridge.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Ft/lbs of energy is what makes holes through steel. I’m thinking the bullet that went through weighed more than the others, if it was out of the same cartridge.

Could be. 190 ABLR vs 165 Partition. over 200 ft-lbs energy difference at the target.

[marky_mark]

If your shooting through 1/2 ar 550 steel something is definitely wrong

[FCLightning]

Alloy steel of some type, not ar 550

[waldedw]

Holy molly has this one ever taken a turn, we're shooting 1/2" steel now, I'm sure soon the 50 BMG's will be coming out for whitetail across the hay field

[58thecat]

So you gotta go from your house to town....walk out and there is a rusted out Volkswagen Beetle and a Ferrari....decision time which one gets taken to town.

No you don't need to get there at mach1 and look stellar doing it very effective and efficient at achieving your goal of getting your prescription of little blue pills but man you get back home that much quicker to get down to business.

Or you putt putt into town, break down once, get your prescription and putt putt home just to find she packed up and left....got tired of not being more effective and efficient.....

[leo]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Holy molly has this one ever taken a turn, we're shooting 1/2" steel now, I'm sure soon the 50 BMG's will be coming out for whitetail across the hay field

If that's what a person wants to use, great. You don't "need" a premium bullet to kill. You don't need a $5000 rifle and scope to kill, nor a 50 BMG. What you need is to make sure you are proficient enough in the use of your chosen equipment and load to put the bullet (or broad head) in a spot that will dispatch an animal quickly and humanely. You also require a measure of integrity and the knowledge of your honest ability to know if you are capable of making that first shot count with the present field conditions and range. That's it! But, opinion of, and variety of firearms and ammo is what fuels a billion dollar industry, one that makes some of us drool when the newest, latest and greatest UBER cartridge and gun/bow comes out. God knows, I'm still searching for the magic combination that will slay everything from Squirrel to Rhino at 1/2 mile ranges with little recoil... LOL. It's fun though, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by leo

If that's what a person wants to use, great. You don't "need" a premium bullet to kill. You don't need a $5000 rifle and scope to kill, nor a 50 BMG. What you need is to make sure you are proficient enough in the use of your chosen equipment and load to put the bullet (or broad head) in a spot that will dispatch an animal quickly and humanely. You also require a measure of integrity and the knowledge of your honest ability to know if you are capable of making that first shot count with the present field conditions and range. That's it! But, opinion of, and variety of firearms and ammo is what fuels a billion dollar industry, one that makes some of us drool when the newest, latest and greatest UBER cartridge and gun/bow comes out. God knows, I'm still searching for the magic combination that will slay everything from Squirrel to Rhino at 1/2 mile ranges with little recoil... LOL. It's fun though, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

6.5 Creedmoor

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by sns2

6.5 Creedmoor

And with all the money you'd save in powder consumption, a partition (premium bulltet) will then be affordable! Win win

[leo]

Originally Posted by sns2

6.5 Creedmoor

I'm easing into one. I got a 6.5 PRC to finish playing with first.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

And with all the money you'd save in powder consumption, a partition (premium bulltet) will then be affordable! Win win

Damn straight. Now you're talking!