Marijuana

[209x50]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

In EVERY example of decrim, there has never been pandemonium.

You are fear mongering and not aware of facts.

But it has worked sooo well in the Netherlands! They went form no heroin addicts to filling the hospitals with them. What harm is a little pot? lots it would seem.

[mac_xi@hotmail.com]

That's why MANDITORY MINIMUM sentences are BAD. Both sides can debate the morals of either side until they are blue in the face.

The facts are that Marijuana is currently illeagle. And Bill S-10 will only effect small time, not for profit operations. The supply or demand won't magically disappear. Our kids won't be any safer and it will cost us all buckets of cash. Organized crime will make more money, more people will be in prison, more people's lives will be ruined and more people will die.

You can stand in your ivory tower and cast judgment on all of us "criminals". But I truly hope, if this gets passed, your childeren or someone who you care about dosent get swept into prison because of it. It WILL happen, innocent people will go to jail for making a bad choice or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because MANDITORY MINIMUMS do not allow for a case by case judgment.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Do you want to ban booze?

A great part of the problem we are facing from alcohol comes from the fact that it is one of only a few substances which are legally available for consumption.

Part of the reason why those corps support prohibition.

If other substances were available commercially they would absorb considerable market share, and our culture of binge drinking would die down a bit. We (as a community) would be healthier for it.


Binge drinking is becoming a serious problem in the west. Every year now there are university and college students who are literally over-dosing and dying from alcohol.

Save your child and support ending prohibition.

Alcohol is a highly toxic depressant. Cannabis is harmless.

What are the authorities really up to?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by 209x50

But it has worked sooo well in the Netherlands! They went form no heroin addicts to filling the hospitals with them. What harm is a little pot? lots it would seem.

You are mis-informed, and what you suggest is false.

The rate of problem drug users in Holland (0.30) is nearly half that of 15 comparable EU countries (0.52).

[alwaysfishn]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Alcohol is a highly toxic depressant. Cannabis is harmless.

True and false

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by mac_xi@hotmail.com

That's why MANDITORY MINIMUM sentences are BAD.

Mandatory minimums remove civility from our communities, strip us of our rights and freedoms, and turn us into commodities.


This is class warfare, and unless you are at the top looking down, which I doubt many of us are, it is waged against you and your community regardless of whether these laws directly affect you.

They affect your family, your friends and your community.

They'll be taking their profits off your pay cheque either way.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by alwaysfishn

True and false

Sure, they are simple statements.

Care to elaborate on your comment?

[AndrewM]

[QUOTE=BeeGuy;1089276]Alcohol is a highly toxic depressant. QUOTE]

As long as you consume it in moderation then you are fine. It also helps battle heart disease!

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

You are mis-informed, and what you suggest is false.

The rate of problem drug users in Holland (0.30) is nearly half that of 15 comparable EU countries (0.52).

Also in Holland they found 90% of addicts had access to treatment.

It should be noted that the war in Afghanistan has seen opium production increase from 100-400% since 2002 when compared the 90's.

Under our occupation Afghanistan had the largest yield of opium in world history.

What are we fighting for? Right, it is about mineral resources ($$$$), transportation corridors and again has nothing to do with protecting communities.

[BeeGuy]

[QUOTE=AndrewM;1089295]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Alcohol is a highly toxic depressant. QUOTE]

As long as you consume it in moderation then you are fine. It also helps battle heart disease!

Agreed, absolutely.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Also in Holland they found 90% of addicts had access to treatment.

It should be noted that the war in Afghanistan has seen opium production increase from 100-400% since 2002 when compared the 90's.

Under our occupation Afghanistan had the largest yield of opium in world history.

What are we fighting for? Right, it is about mineral resources ($$$$), transportation corridors and again has nothing to do with protecting communities.

So the Iragi war was for oil and the Afgan war was for drugs. Now I got it.

"You have more control high than you do drunk."
So there really are only two kinds of people in the world, drunk pr high. Now I got it

$400 a day to house a criminal who would be out stealing more than that or worse seems like a bargain to me. Make jail, jail and we could cut that cost way down.

No deterrent???? Who cares. The criminal didn't get it the first time or in today's system the first fifty times, who cares if he gets it after 15 years? At least I know where he is and what he's doing.

My eyes are starting to bleed so I think I'll just leave this discussion to the straights and stoners. I can only see a positive outcome from those two groups discussing this subject.

Sorta like the wolves and sheep discussing what's for lunch.

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Sorta like the wolves and sheep discussing what's for lunch.

Lunch...did someone mention lunch. For some reason this thread has really given me a case of the munchies!

[Redfrog]

[Gust]

[QUOTE=pesky672;1088825]I disagree.
It isn't a deterrent because it is a response to crime that was planned and executed without the expectation of being caught.
Nobody goes out and does something thinking....as soon as I do this...I'm going to get caught.

Think about it. Like most people you probably speed once in a while.
Do you do that expecting to get caught?
QUOTE]

You have to know the rules to break the rules,,, a great example of this was/is Mulroney,,, and his crime was willfully directed at Canadians.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So the Iragi war was for oil and the Afgan war was for drugs. Now I got it.

"You have more control high than you do drunk." Who are you quoting?
So there really are only two kinds of people in the world, drunk pr high. Now I got it

$400 a day to house a criminal who would be out stealing more than that or worse seems like a bargain to me. Make jail, jail and we could cut that cost way down. People growing 6 marijuana plants arent breaking into your truck.

No deterrent???? Who cares. The criminal didn't get it the first time or in today's system the first fifty times, who cares if he gets it after 15 years? At least I know where he is and what he's doing. Mandatory minimum sentences don't require a 'first fifty times'...

My eyes are starting to bleed so I think I'll just leave this discussion to the straights and stoners. I can only see a positive outcome from those two groups discussing this subject. Supporting civil policy direction does not make one a stoner, and as I pointed out, criminals support prohibition. It ensures their product has cash value, and ensures a corrupt political system.

Sorta like the wolves and sheep discussing what's for lunch.

There is a serious lack of reading comprehension here if your are responding to any of the ongoing discussion.

Although many people can not understand things beyond black and white opinions or fore or against positions, policy as most things are, resides in an endless gray area which requires information, analysis, and a lack of prejudice.

[great white whaler]

[QUOTE=AndrewM;1089295]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Alcohol is a highly toxic depressant. QUOTE]

As long as you consume it in moderation then you are fine. It also helps battle heart disease!

my doctor tells me a couple of drinks a day is good' thins the blood.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So the Iragi war was for oil and the Afgan war was for drugs. Now I got it.

"You have more control high than you do drunk."
So there really are only two kinds of people in the world, drunk pr high. Now I got it

$400 a day to house a criminal who would be out stealing more than that or worse seems like a bargain to me. Make jail, jail and we could cut that cost way down.

No deterrent???? Who cares. The criminal didn't get it the first time or in today's system the first fifty times, who cares if he gets it after 15 years? At least I know where he is and what he's doing.

My eyes are starting to bleed so I think I'll just leave this discussion to the straights and stoners. I can only see a positive outcome from those two groups discussing this subject.

Sorta like the wolves and sheep discussing what's for lunch.

I can find the article if you like on, the movement of large containment vehicles in and out of the poppy fields, unchecked all the while every car and burka checked for bombs and guns.

but frog,
I posted this earlier
14 years for growing pot, 15 years for Karla Homulka, are the crimes equal?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

14 years for growing pot, 15 years for Karla Homulka, are the crimes equal?

The crimes arent equal, but the "correction revenues" will be !!!!

Don't forget the bottom line! I'm not talking about a pickeral rig!

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

14 years for growing pot, 15 years for Karla Homulka, are the crimes equal?

You are comparing the ramifications of a crime from 20 years ago to a proposed change in 2011. I suspect with inflation that the 15 year sentence might be more under the new get tough on crime legislation being proposed by the tories but no telling how many deaths that grow op could lead to either....

Unless you grow dope, there shouldn't really be anything to worry about.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Unless you grow dope, there shouldn't really be anything to worry about.

As identified clearly, and thoroughly discussed, anti-drug policy, and prohibition creates a multi-billion dollar black market which both empowers and enriches organized crime which also leads to the corruption of our political system.

Nothing to worry about????

You know these policies have more than just a single degree of cause and effect right?

[Gust]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You are comparing the ramifications of a crime from 20 years ago to a proposed change in 2011. I suspect with inflation that the 15 year sentence might be more under the new get tough on crime legislation being proposed by the tories but no telling how many deaths that grow op could lead to either....

Unless you grow dope, there shouldn't really be anything to worry about.

fair enough,,,, how much time should mulroney get for duping us? if anyone should drop the soap it should be ol'ironjaw. I'm sure I've wrinkled some brows on this forum, so my apologies to those.

I'm neither for nor against the pot world (know many pro's and con's of pot, usage, myths, lies, hypocrisy, etc, etc) but I am *****ly when it comes to sentencing. I guess farm/grow-op accidents do happen and I guess supposing that in the future people will die from direct contact or somewhere down the line from a grow op requires a stiffer sentence. It would be great if this reasoning were applied to COO's who salt the books on how many accidents and deaths actually occur as a direct result of working on the rigs,, (whoops, that's like saying voldemort, in this case Hal).

I'm going fishing,,,,
the argueing threads are for waiting for the ice to thicken.

[BeeGuy]

Supporting anti-drug legislation means quite directly that you support the ability for organized crime, gangs and mafioso's to have wealth and power.

Support for prohibition is support for drug lords.

Take a look at Mexico.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

I'm going fishing,,,,
the argueing threads are for waiting for the ice to thicken.

Tight lines!

You're right, this one probably needs to be shut down.

MODS: take'r away..............

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

As identified clearly, and thoroughly discussed, anti-drug policy, and prohibition creates a multi-billion dollar black market which both empowers and enriches organized crime which also leads to the corruption of our political system.

Nothing to worry about????

You know these policies have more than just a single degree of cause and effect right?

So this empowerment of organized crime must already exist then....I'm not sure 14 years is enough then. Sounds like there's lots to worry about....unless you have a grow op that is.

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Supporting anti-drug legislation means quite directly that you support the ability for organized crime, gangs and mafioso's to have wealth and power.

Support for prohibition is support for drug lords.

Take a look at Mexico.

Now that was a twist I never saw coming. Totally flawed logic but I have to give you credit for creativity...lol

[Redfrog]

GM "I posted this earlier
14 years for growing pot, 15 years for Karla Homulka, are the crimes equal"

Nope they are not equal. I'm comfy as a clam with the 14 years for trafficking, but Karla should have had a long drop on a short rope.

"As identified clearly, and thoroughly discussed, anti-drug policy, and prohibition creates a multi-billion dollar black market which both empowers and enriches organized crime which also leads to the corruption of our political system."

Unless there is no market for the product. It is illegal. Don't use it and YOU won't be supporting organized crime, black market etc.

In my world those dealers or crime bosses would be fertilizer not businessmen.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Now that was a twist I never saw coming. Totally flawed logic but I have to give you credit for creativity...lol

Identify the flaw...

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Identify the flaw...

I'm not sure where to even begin bee......think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Unless there is no market for the product. It is illegal. Don't use it and YOU won't be supporting organized crime, black market etc.

Well, in reality, there is a multi-billion dollar market for the products. And after more than 50years effort in removing that demand, it still exists. In fact demand is greater than ever.

The assumption in red makes fools of us all as long as we keep believing that magically, one day, we will succeed.

You gotta know when to fold'em.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Support for prohibition is support for drug lords.

No the criminals that buy the drugs support the drug lords.
I don't buy drugs therfore I don't support drug lords. How about you?