" Idle No More"

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Nope, it is not me that has the "woe to me attitude." I am not the one blockading roads and going on hunger strikes for an "idle no more" campaign. I am too busy supporting myself and family to have time for bs like that.

That is quite the 180 degree arse backwards accusation based on the topic of this thread. Tell me one single right or opportunity that I have and a native does not. Remember that my grandpa started out in a homesteader's cabin with nothing at all but a hard work ethic. I can list several rights that they have over me though. Leave out all the implied racism, jail, foster care, unemployed, and undereducated stuff though. Those are choices, not rights.

"They kicked those hard hats out many moons ago!!" lol. Then why am I still here.

OK just one opportunity you have that many natives don't--the opportunity to walk down the street without some spitting on you and calling you a stinking Injun.....or being the first one pointed at when something gets stolen...or getting a job where the foreman doesn't automatically expect you to fail. :-)

How does that sit with you? :-)

[fletcher]

Theresa spence has leapfrogged all the other native leaders in influence with simple personal coersion. I dont know why they dont say wait a minute who is this clown? She has no mandate to negotiate even for her own people. Are they going to invent a whole new negotiating regime for her strike? When she couldnt get what she wanted from the govt before she called a state of emergency this is the same type of thing and now marc garneau is urging harper:-)to,meet with her. Spence turned her mismanagement of her own job to her advantage now shes trying a bigger stunt but one way outside her mandate.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Matt, when you make a people "wards of the state" and control their every existence for 7 generations you have an unimaginable impact that very few canadians want to see. What you see in the news and in media is not from an overnight influence.

Its like asking a drug addict to "straighten out" without a major intervention. I encourage you to study the history of this country when it comes to Aboriginal people.

That doesn't explain the ones that do get off their arses and make something of themselves. If they can do it why can't the rest?
The apology has been made, let's look forward now.

[hillbilly willy]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

It is things like this that everyone has heard stories about that make us sick and tired of the natives we see as leaches to our tax dollars.

x100

Here is another,

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_sWf5l5QZg

no sympathy for Ms. Spence's hunger strike after bellying up to the trough like this

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Do you even know how many do or don't contribute to Canadian society or is it easier to hold onto misguided and misinformed views by lumping them all into one big stereotype? Hunters hate when poachers are called hunters so why is it ok to stereotype one group of people but not another? How about the way Eastern Canada thinks that Alberta is full of dumb rednecks, like the stereotype?

Facts are, not many in Canada are even informed as to what the treaties really are and that is evident by all the untrue comments about all the free hand outs, free trucks, not paying taxes etc etc. If they take away the treaties they also better do away with the racist Indian Act.

Oh and Gord, it isn't just the FN's that are opposing the pipeline, many Canadians are opposing it and the oil and gas industry will be just fine if it doesn't go through. Are you going to rampage against all the Canadians, white or native if it doesn't go through or you'll simply blame the natives?

I do agree the Indian Act is a terrible piece of legislation.

You can't deny that there are many issues that the rest of Canadians see as a drain on our taxes without any foresight or proper accountability that are directly related to our reserves and native population. For such a small group of people, there is a lot of money spent to support them. Even when considering the remote locations of many of the reserves, it does not compare to how the non native communities can survive in similarly remote locations on far less income.

This document all though dated, shows the government spends 57% more per native then it does for non natives. http://staging.acef.ca/ctfweb/docume..._waslander.pdf

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

That doesn't explain the ones that do get off their arses and make something of themselves. If they can do it why can't the rest?
The apology has been made, let's look forward now.

Because some humans are stronger than others and they will fight their way through adversity...while others will just give up. It's human nature regardless of race. :-)

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Yet every time when the government has tried to do something about this, they get too much belly aching from the natives who complain about the action the government wants to take. Enough is enough.

Well what do you think got us into this situation...........it was the actions of governments. The Indian Act was forced on us under the guise of it being `good for us`` the residential schools were sold to us as something good, reservations were created because they were good for us.

People talk about equality, but take a look at the Indian Act and see how our veternas were treated compared to other veterans who fought for this country.

Every unilateral action taken by successive governments was supposed to be good for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

They kicked those hard hats out many moons ago!! :-).

Why do you think your living in a substandard unequal Canada? That is what really amazes me, this woe to me attitude. It almost sounds like you would like to trade places in life with a native? They have it pretty good, you can tell so many are in jail, so many are in foster care, so many are hopelessly unemployed and undereducated.....one heck of a thing to be jealous of. IMHO :-)

Nope, they didn't get kicked out. Those boys just traded them in, for more modern ones.... To help pay taxes!

Nobodies fault what they do, and where they end up. They have rights, that they are born with that give them an advantage. If I had those benefits, I know what i could do with them, to be furthar ahead.

I guess that old saying is true, you apperciate something more if you work for it !

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Matt, when you make a people "wards of the state" and control their every existence for 7 generations you have an unimaginable impact that very few canadians want to see. What you see in the news and in media is not from an overnight influence.

Its like asking a drug addict to "straighten out" without a major intervention. I encourage you to study the history of this country when it comes to Aboriginal people.

This major intervention you speak of .... isn't that what the Harper bill is all about?

Seems to me the native/band/national council hierarchies have figured out how to make a good living off the "system" put in place under the Indian Act. No wonder the leadership has orchestrated resistance to the reforms proposed by the feds.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

They kicked those hard hats out many moons ago!! :-).

Why do you think your living in a substandard unequal Canada? That is what really amazes me, this woe to me attitude. It almost sounds like you would like to trade places in life with a native? They have it pretty good, you can tell so many are in jail, so many are in foster care, so many are hopelessly unemployed and undereducated.....one heck of a thing to be jealous of. IMHO :-)

Yes many natives are in jail because of their own actions. Hardly my fault.

Yes many native children are in foster care because of the actions of their parents. Hardly my fault, but it is sad.

Hopelessly underemployed largely because they refuse to go to where the work is. Hardly my fault either. I would be unemployed where I live if I wanted to only work in my profession here, that is why I travel away to work. My other option would be to change professions, but that would cost money to train, which I can't afford because there is no handout or subsidy for me like there is for natives who wish to get educated.

In short, yes I am jealous of the opportunities that many natives squander.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

OK just one opportunity you have that many natives don't--the opportunity to walk down the street without some spitting on you and calling you a stinking Injun.....or being the first one pointed at when something gets stolen...or getting a job where the foreman doesn't automatically expect you to fail. :-)

How does that sit with you? :-)

Lol, what a crock! If you look or play the part, you'll get labelled. As a small business owner I have hired natives among other ethnic nationalities, and as a matter of fact one of my #1 men was native. There is a big difference between the whiners and the workers and its not hard to see. The ones protesting are trying to milk money, the ones who aren't protesting don't have to because they are working for their money and don't rely on handouts.

Trust me, if there is two guys walking down the street, one has his hat sideways with a bandana under it, and his pants hanging down below his butt, and the other guy is wearing a suit, it won't matter what race, religion or color they are, the guy with his pants half off is going to be labelled one thing and the guy wearing the suit will be labelled something else.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

That doesn't explain the ones that do get off their arses and make something of themselves. If they can do it why can't the rest?
The apology has been made, let's look forward now.

I`d like to think I`m one that got off my arse and made it, if you call it that. But I have to thank my mother for that, my dad was a product of the residential school system, and that man would drink every thing and anything that contained alcohol. He went into the residential school system when he was 5 and was let go when he was 18, no language, no culture and no identity, no equality.

Seeing my mother suffer is what motivated me. Most of my childhood friends did not have that option and most still don`t today. they`re are either dead, in jail or struggling on the rez.

Apolopogy did nothing, hollow words but I do give credit to Prime Minister Harper for having the guts to do what should have been done decades ago. I only wish he would follow up with some actions.

And I do believe the Idle No More is about looking forward, the young people are taking action to raise awareness. Some old farts will never change, they`re appealing to the younger generation hoping that enough Canadians of all stripes will see the need for change.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Well what do you think got us into this situation...........it was the actions of governments. The Indian Act was forced on us under the guise of it being `good for us`` the residential schools were sold to us as something good, reservations were created because they were good for us.

People talk about equality, but take a look at the Indian Act and see how our veternas were treated compared to other veterans who fought for this country.

Every unilateral action taken by successive governments was supposed to be good for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will get no argument from me on the residential schools issue, or some of the initial reasons behind reserves and the loss of the traditional way of life then as it was know. But times have changed, and unfortunately the natives have refused to accept some of the changes that need to be taken to fix the problems of today. They demanded self government, and it was given to them, however it has proven to be an abysmal failure, not because the government made it a failure, but because of corruption within the native population. You can't tell me that the native leadership don't treat some natives differently then others, and that this does not cause a disparity in standard of living.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

OK just one opportunity you have that many natives don't--the opportunity to walk down the street without some spitting on you and calling you a stinking Injun.....or being the first one pointed at when something gets stolen...or getting a job where the foreman doesn't automatically expect you to fail. :-)

How does that sit with you? :-)

Oh please. Is that is the best you can do? When my respectful native friends and my metis wife walk down the street they certainly don't get spit on or insulted.

That is just a **** poor excuse.

And my best native friend is the foreman of his own company. To me it is not a racial issue at all. It is SOME people that don't want to work for themselves but others do.

I won't comment on the slang "whitey" terms that I have been called because it doesn't hold me back for a second.

Canuck, you have risin above all that too. What is your secret?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I`d like to think I`m one that got off my arse and made it, if you call it that. But I have to thank my mother for that, my dad was a product of the residential school system, and that man would drink every thing and anything that contained alcohol. He went into the residential school system when he was 5 and was let go when he was 18, no language, no culture and no identity, no equality.

Seeing my mother suffer is what motivated me. Most of my childhood friends did not have that option and most still don`t today. they`re are either dead, in jail or struggling on the rez.

Apolopogy did nothing, hollow words but I do give credit to Prime Minister Harper for having the guts to do what should have been done decades ago. I only wish he would follow up with some actions.

And I do believe the Idle No More is about looking forward, the young people are taking action to raise awareness. Some old farts will never change, they`re appealing to the younger generation hoping that enough Canadians of all stripes will see the need for change.

I can talk about childhood suffering too. I can tell you how my stepmother used to beat me. I did not let that upbringing ruin my life, and give me an excuse to be lazy or do drugs and steal.

You are proof that it is possible for individuals to succeed despite the hardships they suffered. Why can't the rest of your people find the motivation you have?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Because some humans are stronger than others and they will fight their way through adversity...while others will just give up. It's human nature regardless of race. :-)

This is very true.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by twofifty

This major intervention you speak of .... isn't that what the Harper bill is all about?

Seems to me the native/band/national council hierarchies have figured out how to make a good living off the "system" put in place under the Indian Act. No wonder the leadership has orchestrated resistance to the reforms proposed by the feds.

I see you`re from B.C. The Indians there are heck of a lot better off then the ones in my province. I attribute that to the fact the Indians there still have Aboriginal Title to land and resources and the courts have supported this claim. The province of B.C. has recognized this and has adjusted their policies.

Yes there are so called leaders in First nations across this country that also benefit but keep in mind under the Indian Act the chiefs are accountable to the Indian Agent in modern times the Regional Director, can you imagine that!!!!!!!

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I can talk about childhood suffering too. I can tell you how my stepmother used to beat me. I did not let that upbringing ruin my life, and give me an excuse to be lazy or do drugs and steal.

You are proof that it is possible for individuals to succeed despite the hardships they suffered. Why can't the rest of your people find the motivation you have?

There`s always an exception to every rule..............i attribute my and my siblings survival to my mother.

You`re also an exception to the rule, I sure there are others that were faced with the same adversity that you did that never accomplished the things you have to date.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

OK just one opportunity you have that many natives don't--the opportunity to walk down the street without some spitting on you and calling you a stinking Injun.....or being the first one pointed at when something gets stolen...or getting a job where the foreman doesn't automatically expect you to fail. :-)

How does that sit with you? :-)

Have you ever tried to be the white guy in a native community? I would take spit on cause the options they were handing out weren't that nice.
Racism is a two way street, and in my experience there are far more racist natives than there are racist white folk.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Oh please. Is that is the best you can do? When my respectful native friends and my metis wife walk down the street they certainly don't get spit on or insulted.

That is just a **** poor excuse.

And my best native friend is the foreman of his own company. To me it is not a racial issue at all. It is SOME people that don't want to work for themselves but others do not.

I won't comment on the slang "whitey" terms that I have been called because it doesn't hold me back for a second.

Canuck, you have risin above all that too. What is your secret?

It's not a poor excuse...it's what ultimately killed my brother. :-(. I have lighter skin and eyes than he had and I saw how he was treated when we stood side by side. I also felt the oppression in school when the teachers found out I was native. I made it because I'm a fighter and wouldn't let systemic racism crush me. It's too bad that the people that continue to brand all natives with the brush of their prejudices don't understand the damage they are doing to those that are still on the crossroads trying to figure out which path in life they are going to take. Each person should be judged on their own merits instead of being branded as being of the same ilk as a corrupt native leader. :-)

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Have you ever tried to be the white guy in a native community? I would take spit on cause the options they were handing out weren't that nice.
Racism is a two way street, and in my experience there are far more racist natives than there are racist white folk.

White in a native community...I am Metis, with blue eyes...ive gotten it from both sides. I'll agree there are racists in both cultures. :-)

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

You will get no argument from me on the residential schools issue, or some of the initial reasons behind reserves and the loss of the traditional way of life then as it was know. But times have changed, and unfortunately the natives have refused to accept some of the changes that need to be taken to fix the problems of today. They demanded self government, and it was given to them, however it has proven to be an abysmal failure, not because the government made it a failure, but because of corruption within the native population. You can't tell me that the native leadership don't treat some natives differently then others, and that this does not cause a disparity in standard of living.

I would like to know where you`ve seen self government implimented. Hey the best thing folks on this board can do is encourgae your MPs to get the heck out of the Indian business and hand it over to the Indians. This way you can truly walk away from the issue.

Trudeau and the Liberals could have walked away from this in 1969-70 for 50 million dollars when he tried to impliment the White Paper. Can you imagine that. Instead we`re rotting around the necks of every canadian like a gut shot moose..............

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

It's not a poor excuse...it's what ultimately killed my brother. :-(. I have lighter skin and eyes than he had and I saw how he was treated when we stood side by side. I also felt the oppression in school when the teachers found out I was native. I made it because I'm a fighter and wouldn't let systemic racism crush me. It's too bad that the people that continue to brand all natives with the brush of their prejudices don't understand the damage they are doing to those that are still on the crossroads trying to figure out which path in life they are going to take. Each person should be judged on their own merits instead of being branded as being of the same ilk as a corrupt native leader. :-)

NO different than alot of us who immigrated here ! But only natives tell me to go back to my own country!

That last sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. That's all I want to see, is equality, to all Canadians. Judging becomes harder, when we all have the same oppoturnities at birth.!

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

OK just one opportunity you have that many natives don't--the opportunity to walk down the street without some spitting on you and calling you a stinking Injun.....or being the first one pointed at when something gets stolen...or getting a job where the foreman doesn't automatically expect you to fail. :-)

How does that sit with you? :-)

When I was getting out of high school, the news papers posted a story on the front page that said if you are a white young male, don't apply for these jobs, and the list was any government job, police, fire department or nearly any civil service job. That upset me plenty and made me dislike any form of affirmative action. It made it hard for me to earn good living. I had to work very hard to make ends meet. I joined the Airforce instead. Had them send me to school. I served my country, but they did not really support me in return.

I remember one incident when I was taking the last $5 out of my bank from the machine. (back when you could still get $5 from the machine) This drunk native couple started to demand I give them some money. Both were wearing very expensive cowboy style clothes. The hat on the guy was most likely a couple hundred dollars alone. His boots probably the same. They were saying "hey whitey, give me some money" I replied with something about why they don't have a job, and why do I have to support their drunk azzez. Well the guy tried to take a swing at me. He missed, and I pushed him over. the other patrons on the street corner who witnessed this applauded me for standing up to these drunks.

I was broke, had 5 bucks left to buy gas so I could get to work for the next few days, and was supporting my girlfriend (later wife) to go to college. Needless to say I was not impressed with whom I felt were leaches and a burden on my ability to get a better job. They probably had more money to get drunk on in a day then I had to spend on clothing for a year. Having a beer at the end of the week was a luxury, having enough money to get drunk was out of the question unless I didn't want to eat.

So how does that sit with you?

[KegRiver]

I don't know what it's like to be born and raised on a reserve, but I wonder how many of us could walk away from free land, a guaranteed income for life, without working, and all the other perks that I am told native people get.

It seems to me that if they really do get all that, it would take incredible strength to turn ones back on it and go face the outside world, where I know from personal experience, some are not well accepted.

I also know that what one is raised with seems perfectly normal, even if the outside world is much different then what one experiences at home.

For me, life away from home was a struggle for the first few years. And even now, I choose to live close to where I was born. I just don't feel like I fit in anywhere else.

I could make more money elsewhere. But I couldn't live the sort of life I grew up with. So even though things here have changed a lot over the years, it is still the only place I know of where I can have a little taste of the life I once knew. So home is here and always will be.

My dad on the other hand, left home when he was 14 years old, and never went back.

For some it is easy to chose something different, for others, not so much.

I don't know what should or could be done for the native people or by the native people.

All I know is that they are people like any others. And I am fortunate that some of them call me friend.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I would like to know where you`ve seen self government implimented. Hey the best thing folks on this board can do is encourgae your MPs to get the heck out of the Indian business and hand it over to the Indians. This way you can truly walk away from the issue.

Trudeau and the Liberals could have walked away from this in 1969-70 for 50 million dollars when he tried to impliment the White Paper. Can you imagine that. Instead we`re rotting around the necks of every canadian like a gut shot moose..............

What do you call the native band council on every reserve? Or are they just collecting a paycheck for doing nothing?

Would you rather Trudeau and the Liberals have passed their white paper? From what I read about that, the natives were very vocal against it too. But here you consider the plight of the natives to be akin to being "a gut shot moose".

What do you really want?

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

White in a native community...I am Metis, with blue eyes...ive gotten it from both sides. I'll agree there are racists in both cultures. :-)

Racism breeds racism.................I make every attempt not to play the race card, as a matter of fact I abhore the race card on any side. Its a deal breaker for me and never leads to any solution.

I used to laugh when the white kids would be beating me up in school..............as they were laying the boots to me, I`d poke my head out and yell at them..........better red than dead, beatings would commence till they got played out or till someone would break it up which happened on a rare occasion.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

White in a native community...I am Metis, with blue eyes...ive gotten it from both sides. I'll agree there are racists in both cultures. :-)

I have more compassion for the Metis then I do for full treaty status natives. The Metis don't get the same benefits full natives get, but do suffer similar problems due to a similar heritage.

But once again, it is personal choice for continuing to feel sorry for one's self.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Racism breeds racism.................I make every attempt not to play the race card, as a matter of fact I abhore the race card on any side. Its a deal breaker for me and never leads to any solution.

I used to laugh when the white kids would be beating me up in school..............as they were laying the boots to me, I`d poke my head out and yell at them..........better red than dead, beatings would commence till they got played out or till someone would break it up which happened on a rare occasion.

Where did you grow up?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Racism breeds racism.................I make every attempt not to play the race card, as a matter of fact I abhore the race card on any side. Its a deal breaker for me and never leads to any solution.

I used to laugh when the white kids would be beating me up in school..............as they were laying the boots to me, I`d poke my head out and yell at them..........better red than dead, beatings would commence till they got played out or till someone would break it up which happened on a rare occasion.

Most of the native kids I grew up with were much bigger and stronger then the rest of us white kids. I remember playing hockey in Enoch, and we got our buts kicked by those native kids. Boy could they play.