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04-13-2018, 01:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Drayton Valley, AB
Posts: 696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
I bet everyone had the same knee jerk reaction to the crossbow inclusion, me included.
Fortunately, for the most part, if you give a group of people ALL the information on a subject, the majority will tend have removed the biases and followed the logic. There are extremists at either end of the subject as always, there is usually an agenda that could be a blend of ignorance and selfishness or either individually driving the view point.
This would be why the voice of AB Bowhunters as CNP said (well said btw ) welcome this tool where it belongs, and the extremists so to speak (ABA) fight against it.
Given the categories of tools we use to hunt with it's clear where the tool belongs. I'm glad to hear rumors it will eventually be included where it belongs. ABA should jump on board sooner rather than later, they should have been the leader on this imo. Now maybe it's too late to change stance?
Hats off to them if they got the initial archery seasons initiated to show the distinction between tools and gain the additional opportunities. That was brilliant. But the mistake in this case is that those large picture views weren't kept and selfishness has gotten in the way of growth/progress that got the thing started in the first place. The compound was allowed at some point but this one isn't?
At this point on that subject, there is only one thing left to say to those still fighting the inclusion.....time to get down off that horse, it ain't a thing.
Huge shout out to those who've admitted to starting one way and ending up another! Not just on this subject but any. Right on!
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Speaking of elitist clubs, lol. Thanks but no thanks regarding anything to do with your 1000 club. Thanks Lefty for your words regarding the good work the ABA does and support for the Bow hunter. I am far from an elitist and although I do hunt with a bow (have not harvested an animal with it yet) and will call myself more of a rifle hunter but enjoy my time in the woods with my Bow.
A crossbow is not a Bow or a tool used by an archer and has more in common with a rifle. I believe it has no place in our archery seasons and hope to see it stay that way except in the hands of individuals with a proven handicap and grounds to use a crossbow during archery season.
Last edited by abhunter8; 04-13-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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04-13-2018, 02:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote .."A crossbow is not a Bow or a tool used by an archer and has more in common with a rifle. I believe it has no place in our archery seasons and hope to see it stay that way except in the hands of individuals with a proven handicap and grounds to use a crossbow during archery season.
Last edited by abhunter8; 04-13-2018 at 02:03 PM.
Longbows and X-Bows were archery tools in use centuries prior to the introduction of Firearms . Along comes the compound bow centuries after the introduction of Firearms and currently the Activist/Protectionist types envision the X-bow to be essentially a Firearm.
This is a modern mystery that has yet to be logically explained to anyone other than the Protectionists themselves.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-13-2018, 02:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Lol, the 1000 Club is really serious stuff, you should reconsider.
Nothing wrong with staying on your side of the line, dig in. Damn that's a tall horse! Peace.
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 04-13-2018 at 03:02 PM.
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04-13-2018, 02:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
Quote .."A crossbow is not a Bow or a tool used by an archer and has more in common with a rifle. I believe it has no place in our archery seasons and hope to see it stay that way except in the hands of individuals with a proven handicap and grounds to use a crossbow during archery season.
Last edited by abhunter8; 04-13-2018 at 02:03 PM.
Longbows and X-Bows were archery tools in use centuries prior to the introduction of Firearms . Along comes the compound bow centuries after the introduction of Firearms and currently the Activist/Protectionist types envision the X-bow to be essentially a Firearm.
This is a modern mystery that has yet to be logically explained to anyone other than the Protectionists themselves.
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The truth is what it is!
'logically explained'...exactly, getting the seasons was wonderful but on doing so opened pandoras box, almost like when a religion starts, in the beginning for all the right intentions/reasons but then you realize all the power/control you can have and it gets used the wrong way....all these early season trophies are all ours and the less people we have competing with us for them the better, damn crossbow will let anyone bowhunt with us, unacceptable!!! more bowhunters is definitely a bad thing! anyone been afield in november lately? pewpewpew pewpewpew
Can't stay 1960 forever, logic will prevail eventually. There is a correct order of importance to put things. We have finally learned that a human being is a human being...well maybe not in all parts of the world yet but for the most part in Canada we have. Took us long enough. Lump the tools where they belong....THEN...you figure out the rest once data is there to drive any changes or improvements etc. We are arse backwards currently, give it up already, we left a tool out, lets correct that and adjust like we do now in the 21st century.
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 04-13-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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04-13-2018, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Usually the office, but the bush when I can
Posts: 1,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
Longbows and X-Bows were archery tools in use centuries prior to the introduction of Firearms . Along comes the compound bow centuries after the introduction of Firearms and currently the Activist/Protectionist types envision the X-bow to be essentially a Firearm.
This is a modern mystery that has yet to be logically explained to anyone other than the Protectionists themselves.
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^on this I agree. Yes, long bows and cross bows definitely existed long before compounds; there's no question about that.
However, the definition (in my mind) of Alberta's archery season is "to be held and released by muscular power". I didn't make that up - it's in the regulations. A cross bow is as different from a long/compound/recurve bow as a rifle is to a slingshot. Both the rifle and cross bow can be loaded, cocked and ready to fire until the metals rust. But a long/compound/recurve bow and slingshot can only be ccooked and ready to fire while the shooter has the strength to hold it.
To say that cross bows belong in the same group as those other bows mentioned above is about as silly as stating that cannons should be classified as a rifle. Both the cross bow and cannon came before the compound and rifle....
Let's not get silly....
J.
Yep, I dream in cartoons too
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My $0.02.... Please feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt
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04-13-2018, 04:49 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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I'm moving this post over as it might de-rail the original. Still looking for some logical answers other than the usual Protectionist banter against the full inclusion of X-Bows in the Archery season.
No such thing as being a little bit pregnant ..
[QUOTE=Salavee;3769981]Quote .."A crossbow is not a Bow or a tool used by an archer and has more in common with a rifle. I believe it has no place in our archery seasons and hope to see it stay that way except in the hands of individuals with a proven handicap and grounds to use a crossbow during archery season.
Last edited by abhunter8; 04-13-2018 at 02:03 PM.
I call BS ..Longbows and X-Bows were archery tools in use many centuries prior to the introduction of Firearms . Along comes the compound bow centuries after the introduction of Firearms and currently the Activist/Protectionist types envision the X-bow to be essentially a Firearm.
This is a modern mystery that has yet to be logically explained to anyone other than the Protectionists themselves.
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-13-2018, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrayford
^on this I agree. Yes, long bows and cross bows definitely existed long before compounds; there's no question about that.
However, the definition (in my mind) of Alberta's archery season is "to be held and released by muscular power". I didn't make that up - it's in the regulations.
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That is so weak........all it would take is a stroke of the pen to fix it. Those words are a changin' lol
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04-13-2018, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Usually the office, but the bush when I can
Posts: 1,308
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Salavee, what I'm hearing in layman's terms from you is...
"A bow is a bow is a bow" correct? And therefore all bows should be included in "bow" season, correct?
J.
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My $0.02.... Please feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt
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04-13-2018, 05:04 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrayford
^on this I agree. Yes, long bows and cross bows definitely existed long before compounds; there's no question about that.
However, the definition (in my mind) of Alberta's archery season is "to be held and released by muscular power". I didn't make that up - it's in the regulations. A cross bow is as different from a long/compound/recurve bow as a rifle is to a slingshot. Both the rifle and cross bow can be loaded, cocked and ready to fire until the metals rust. But a long/compound/recurve bow and slingshot can only be ccooked and ready to fire while the shooter has the strength to hold it.
To say that cross bows belong in the same group as those other bows mentioned above is about as silly as stating that cannons should be classified as a rifle. Both the cross bow and cannon came before the compound and rifle....
Let's not get silly....
J.
Yep, I dream in cartoons too
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Silly ? The regulations could be changed in a heartbeat
Muscle Power ? Now who's being silly ? 20% let-off and a trigger release. Tell me about that angle.
Is a Cannon closer to being a Firearm than a Compound Bow is to a X-Bow ? It should be about a string , kinetic energy and a projectile
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
Last edited by Salavee; 04-13-2018 at 05:20 PM.
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04-13-2018, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrayford
Salavee, what I'm hearing in layman's terms from you is...
"A bow is a bow is a bow" correct? And therefore all bows should be included in "bow" season, correct?
J.
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If it has a string and uses limbs to store energy and muscular energy to cock it, it is a bow. Calling it Bow Season or calling it Archery season won't make it any different.
Because it has a trigger or uses a tool (trigger) to release or has a tool to cock it doesn't make it a firearm ... or even close to being a firearm. Limbs provide the energy to launch a projectile with a bow. That is the basic difference. All the rest is nothing but petty nitpicking between different users.
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
Last edited by Salavee; 04-13-2018 at 05:40 PM.
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04-13-2018, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brooks
Posts: 269
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Sheesh i cant believe this thread is still going, all its done is remind me to renew my ABA membership. Bottom line is prairie mule deer would be hard hit if every guy had a 50 yard rifle that requires zero skill to shoot, opportunities are already being lost and this wouldn't help. However, in the name of compromise i would agree that some zones and some species could be hunted with a crossbow but mule deer would just be hit too hard.
If you can shoot a 22 you can shoot a crossbow and be lethal out to 50 yards with zero practice, no movement to draw aim and shoot, can use shooting sticks......etc
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04-13-2018, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatmewolf
Sheesh i cant believe this thread is still going, all its done is remind me to renew my ABA membership. Bottom line is prairie mule deer would be hard hit if every guy had a 50 yard rifle that requires zero skill to shoot, opportunities are already being lost and this wouldn't help. However, in the name of compromise i would agree that some zones and some species could be hunted with a crossbow but mule deer would just be hit too hard.
If you can shoot a 22 you can shoot a crossbow and be lethal out to 50 yards with zero practice, no movement to draw aim and shoot, can use shooting sticks......etc
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Sure 'nuff ..here's that Elite / Protectionist attitude again.
One helluva Marksman and Hunter that wants all the early Prairie Mule Deer to himself. Pretty Typical.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-13-2018, 09:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
Sure 'nuff ..here's that Elite / Protectionist attitude again.
One helluva Marksman and Hunter that wants all the early Prairie Mule Deer to himself. Pretty Typical.
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Yup and sure nuff here is someone upset about not getting their way. When is the next ACBAA meeting?
LC
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04-13-2018, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brooks
Posts: 269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
Sure 'nuff ..here's that Elite / Protectionist attitude again.
One helluva Marksman and Hunter that wants all the early Prairie Mule Deer to himself. Pretty Typical.
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Haha. Hardly an elitist, just an involved hunter with an opinion, kinda like you
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04-13-2018, 11:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatmewolf
If you can shoot a 22 you can shoot a crossbow and be lethal out to 50 yards with zero practice, no movement to draw aim and shoot, can use shooting sticks......etc
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Yup, everyone is going to instantly become a deer hunting ninja as soon as they pick up a crossbow because they won’t have to draw it. A certificate will come right in the box.
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04-14-2018, 05:57 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave
Yup, everyone is going to instantly become a deer hunting ninja as soon as they pick up a crossbow because they won’t have to draw it. A certificate will come right in the box.
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There is an advantage was his point. You still have to hunt but getting busted on the draw and shooting skill are non issues with the crossbow. Obviously not garranteed an animal, but the odds are going up.
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04-14-2018, 08:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 25,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passthru
There is an advantage was his point. You still have to hunt but getting busted on the draw and shooting skill are non issues with the crossbow. Obviously not garranteed an animal, but the odds are going up.
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Huh I have seen people shoot, how do I say it nicely, well you know 1' groupings with a crossbow and a bow and tell me they are great archers....
And better hunters....
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04-14-2018, 10:30 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brooks
Posts: 269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave
Yup, everyone is going to instantly become a deer hunting ninja as soon as they pick up a crossbow because they won’t have to draw it. A certificate will come right in the box.
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I'll put it this way. When i teach hunters education we do a field day where kids can shoot recurves, compounds and crossbows. With ZERO experience the kids are shooting vitals on a deer at 30 yards with a crossbow. That is not the case with recurves and compounds at even ten yards, there is a large difference.
And again I think there are places and species for a crossbow, maybe it gets opened for general whitetail or the bow zones.
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04-14-2018, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatmewolf
I'll put it this way. When i teach hunters education we do a field day where kids can shoot recurves, compounds and crossbows. With ZERO experience the kids are shooting vitals on a deer at 30 yards with a crossbow. That is not the case with recurves and compounds at even ten yards, there is a large difference.
And again I think there are places and species for a crossbow, maybe it gets opened for general whitetail or the bow zones.
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The fact that the kids with no experience can handle a X-Bow efficiently is a major bonus and good on you for providing them an opportunity to use one.
I wish the same proficiency could be achieved by a large number of Compound hunters. I'm sure many of us have witnessed the field results achieved by incompetent Compound shooters. What you have experienced with your Hunter Ed class extends to the field. Contrary to some opinions, not many Compound shooters are experts by any stretch
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-14-2018, 11:26 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 25,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatmewolf
I'll put it this way. When i teach hunters education we do a field day where kids can shoot recurves, compounds and crossbows. With ZERO experience the kids are shooting vitals on a deer at 30 yards with a crossbow. That is not the case with recurves and compounds at even ten yards, there is a large difference.
And again I think there are places and species for a crossbow, maybe it gets opened for general whitetail or the bow zones.
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Evolution of all archery equipment makes things easier for the bow shooter/hunter if and when they choose thier archery equipment.
I tried shooting traditional, pure as pure can get and I will need to take this up full time during retirement to be a true archer with this equipment.
I grab my ol faithful compound and within a few arrow got a beauty group at 30 yards especially now that I got a release.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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04-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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As an aside, can anyone provide the total number of ABA members and affiliates for 2016 ? I can't find any reference to total numbers on their website, nor can I find any reference as to the total number of Archery Permits issued for the same period by Alberta Relm.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezel
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Thanks for that. Now, if we can get the ABA numbers ...
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-14-2018, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
As an aside, can anyone provide the total number of ABA members and affiliates for 2016 ? I can't find any reference to total numbers on their website, nor can I find any reference as to the total number of Archery Permits issued for the same period by Alberta Relm.
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Can someone provide stats on how many crossbow hunters want to use them in the archery only season vs. those who use them during primitive and general seasons where xbows are allowed?
LC
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04-14-2018, 12:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Can someone provide stats on how many crossbow hunters want to use them in the archery only season vs. those who use them during primitive and general seasons where xbows are allowed?
LC
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You're drifting again Lefty... just wanted the ABA membership totals.
Maybe you can provide an estimate ?
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-14-2018, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
You're drifting again Lefty... just wanted the ABA membership totals.
Maybe you can provide an estimate ?
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I’m not drifting, asking a question. Contact ABA Membership if you want Membership numbers.
LC
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04-14-2018, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
I’m not drifting, asking a question. Contact ABA Membership if you want Membership numbers.
LC
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I'll be doing that .. just thought you might have that answer as well.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-14-2018, 04:12 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,281
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ABA Proposal
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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04-15-2018, 01:42 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
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Pretty sweet for bow only hunters, eh? I hunt my moose in 506 and if I’m drawn I can hunt my bull during the rut in archery season AND, if unsuccessful, during the general season with a rifle if I want. How would this be good for anyone else but bow only hunters? Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.
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04-15-2018, 02:03 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Can someone provide stats on how many crossbow hunters want to use them in the archery only season vs. those who use them during primitive and general seasons where xbows are allowed?
LC
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What difference does it make? You seem to have lost touch with the reason for hunting for many people in the first place, and that’s to put food on the table. A guy trying to put food on the table would be pretty stupid to limit himself to using a crossbow in general season when he could use a rifle. Makes sense to me.
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