30 minutes then the Americans turn all the lights out

[rugatika]

Just saw on the news that the house passed a bill to open up the parks and war memorials. Harry Reid and the democrat Senate refused to pass it. White house issued orders to close down the Washington war memorial and put barricades up to keep war vets out...(which they tore down and entered anyway). Headline...White House official: We’re ‘winning’ and it doesn’t matter how long shutdown lasts http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitol...hutdown-lasts/

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Just saw on the news that the house passed a bill to open up the parks and war memorials. Harry Reid and the democrat Senate refused to pass it. White house issued orders to close down the Washington war memorial and put barricades up to keep war vets out...(which they tore down and entered anyway). Headline...White House official: We’re ‘winning’ and it doesn’t matter how long shutdown lasts http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitol...hutdown-lasts/

Repubs are trying to release the hostages... A few pregnant women and a few kids. They are trying to fake being the good guys and not the hostage takers.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

I disagree you shouldn't have to turn your country into a police state to protect democracy ro to protect it from its own people.

If that is your definition of "man up" could you please refer to Mr. TBD who did an excellent job of expounding my idea in a less colloquial manner.

[Sundancefisher]

What are furloughed government workers saying about not going to work?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...pay/?hpt=hp_t1

yahoooooo! Paid holiday.

[chasingtail]

Its on record that the Democrats want to make it as difficult on people as possible during the shut down that is why they are shutting down parks ect. They have the Media Party out in full force making sure the Republicans get the blame. It costs more for the government goons and to put up the barricades then to just keep them open. They shut down whats good about the government but keep all the bad things going like the NSA. Those that don't get the news from CNN, MNBC, CBC know that.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Its on record that the Democrats want to make it as difficult on people as possible during the shut down that is why they are shutting down parks ect. They have the Media Party out in full force making sure the Republicans get the blame. It costs more for the government goons and to put up the barricades then to just keep them open. They shut down whats good about the government but keep all the bad things going like the NSA. Those that don't get the news from CNN, MNBC, CBC know that.

Oh yeah...I can just imagine what would happen if they shut doen the NSA and then some idiot set off a bomb in a parking lot at some National Park/

Start looking for the real rundown instead of lapping up what some left or right wong punduit spoon feeds you.

Half of them are failures at everything but creating division, disinformation and anger.
Many of them have backgrounds that they would prefer you didn't know about.

They are salesmen.
They make their money by and are tollerated because they work tirelessly to ensure that reasonable people on the left and right NEVER sit down together and compare notes.

If people did... they'd drag these guys out and hang em from lamp posts.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Its on record that the Democrats want to make it as difficult on people as possible during the shut down that is why they are shutting down parks ect. They have the Media Party out in full force making sure the Republicans get the blame. It costs more for the government goons and to put up the barricades then to just keep them open. They shut down whats good about the government but keep all the bad things going like the NSA. Those that don't get the news from CNN, MNBC, CBC know that.

Obviously the ploy of the Repubs is to do separate spending bills for everything...one after another but not fun health care. So essentially holding everyone hostage and cutting the hostages up one by one.

Obama as President was elected based upon his health care law. Republicans lost. Now they are just trying to back door the same issue and at the expense of everyone.

The Repubs should man up... hold a vote... approve the budget and if they feel the american public don't want reasonable access to health care they can bring it up at the next presidential election.

[rugatika]

Because I'm a fair and balanced type of guy, I thought I'd present the left wing view of Obamacare and the shutdown.

I have to admit, despite his anti-right wing rant, he makes some very salient points.

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/09/...yths-debunked/

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Because I'm a fair and balanced type of guy, I thought I'd present the left wing view of Obamacare and the shutdown.

I have to admit, despite his anti-right wing rant, he makes some very salient points.

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/09/...yths-debunked/

Good sarcastic tea party blog faking objectivity.

The thought of a healthcare system half way between the crap they have and Canada is interesting.

I could see a minor AOF crowd taking our health care over the US any day of the week.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/fre...ies-about-obam

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45755822/n...ow/vp/53126935

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...house-debunked


This link summarizes all the issues repubs have with obamacare. Provides tons of info for anyone caring where the battle lines are drawn and why


http://mediamatters.org/research/201...obamaca/196181

[tri777]

I wonder if this 'shutdown'
actually invloves a secret bailout/ties
to the coming increased raised debt ceiling somehow.

[Big Daddy Badger]

My understanding is that a FOX news poll shows the disapproval rating for the GOP at 59% now.
Keeping mind that its a FOX news poll... wow....I'm surprised it was even reported.

This shutdown was a serious tactical error....and they are going to have a hard time recovering form it I think.

I also find it interesting that Mr Cruz seems to have very run out of things to say. In fact...so many of the folks driving this are now sillent.

I wonder if perhaps realizing too late that they might have mis-stepped...they are now trying to distance themselves from their masterpiece.
They might all be too busy getting on their knees and thanking God for short memories and an election that is still pretty far down the pipe.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

My understanding is that a FOX news poll shows the disapproval rating for the GOP at 59% now.
Keeping mind that its a FOX news poll... wow....I'm surprised it was even reported.

This shutdown was a serious tactical error....and they are going to have a hard time recovering form it I think.

I also find it interesting that Mr Cruz seems to have very run out of things to say. In fact...so many of the folks driving this are now sillent.

I wonder if perhaps realizing too late that they might have mis-stepped...they are now trying to distance themselves from their masterpiece.
They might all be too busy getting on their knees and thanking God for short memories and an election that is still pretty far down the pipe.

A poll on CNN said it was 65% and getting worse.

Most recent polls

http://www.gallup.com/poll/politics.aspx

Crazy politicians

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/...-shutdown.html

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

A poll on CNN said it was 65% and getting worse.

Most recent polls

http://www.gallup.com/poll/politics.aspx

Crazy politicians

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/...-shutdown.html

Might end up losing more than this one argument if thay aren't careful.
look how long it took the Conservatives to recover after Campbell...and how long it is taking the Liberals now.

That is not a good thing...no matter what your stripe is... any government elect that is not tempered with an effective opposition will soon run amuck.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Might end up losing more than this one argument if thay aren't careful.
look how long it took the Conservatives to recover after Campbell...and how long it is taking the Liberals now.

That is not a good thing...no matter what your stripe is... any government elect that is not tempered with an effective opposition will soon run amuck.

Repubs should stand for fiscal austerity, small government footprint, efficient government.

They have lost momentum getting mixed up in people's bedrooms and allowing fringe groups to take over the party. 20% should not rule the 80. And why on earth can't parties field normal people. Palin? Romney?

[rugatika]

Seems like since Obamacare kicked in people have been getting letters from their insurance companies. Expensive letters. The kind of expensive that makes you mad.


Michael Hood, 46, who lives near Winston-Salem, is another of the Blue Cross customers who is suffering sticker shock after receiving a recent renewal letter.
He and his wife, who is expecting their third child, now pay $324 per month for a plan with a $10,000 family deductible. The comparable plan suggested by Blue Cross for next year would cost $895.27 per month with an $11,000 family deductible. Their annual payment would rise from $14,000 to $24,000.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#storylink=cpy

Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama. Yet, like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance, they were floored last week when they opened their bills: Their policies were being replaced with pricier plans that conform to all the requirements of the new health care law. Vinson, of San Jose, will pay $1,800 more a year for an individual policy, while Waschura, of Portola Valley, will cough up almost $10,000 more for insurance for his family of four. - See more at: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013....ggk7xyv4.dpuf


“I was laughing at Boehner — until the mail came today,” Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare. “I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so ****ed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.” - See more at: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013....ggk7xyv4.dpuf



The president told us Obamacare would make health insurance affordable and reduce costs. It is now impossible for our family to afford private health insurance.”Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#storylink=cpy


When the truth starts coming out about Obamacare, and not all the lies that people have been buying into (you can keep your policy, insurance will be cheaper, etc etc) I suspect more and more people will side with keeping that 10,000 bucks in their pocket. Time is on the Republicans side. Probably no accident that they waited until Obamacare kicked in to finally stand up to it.

[bamahuntnfool]

So sick of this mess....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Repubs should stand for fiscal austerity, small government footprint, efficient government.

They have lost momentum getting mixed up in people's bedrooms and allowing fringe groups to take over the party. 20% should not rule the 80. And why on earth can't parties field normal people. Palin? Romney?

Palin... hmmm....

But I do agree with you in principle...the main steam moderates are there...being ignored and shouted down....and its not just the Republicans or even Americans that have that problem....its become endemic.

Its too bad that the negotiators have been replaced with the flashy headline grabbers that we see now.

Its all about scoring points by being as flamboyant as possible now... hardly a testiment to conservatism or being liberal and democraticly minded.

Winning is more important than serving... getting your way is more important than doing whats right... compromise is dead.

Even Nixon and his arch rival could turn it off at 4 o'clock ...get together over drinks and hash out a workable compromise....despite the fact that they appeared to really hate one another during office hours.

[rugatika]

By far my favourite quote of the week: From an Obama voter speaking to a reporter after finding out her health insurance would be going up 1800 a year. "Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the who was going to pay for it personally."



If that doesn't epitomize the liberal mindset I don't know what does. Everyone gets a unicorn as long as it's with someone else's money. Priceless.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Seems like since Obamacare kicked in people have been getting letters from their insurance companies. Expensive letters. The kind of expensive that makes you mad.


Michael Hood, 46, who lives near Winston-Salem, is another of the Blue Cross customers who is suffering sticker shock after receiving a recent renewal letter.
He and his wife, who is expecting their third child, now pay $324 per month for a plan with a $10,000 family deductible. The comparable plan suggested by Blue Cross for next year would cost $895.27 per month with an $11,000 family deductible. Their annual payment would rise from $14,000 to $24,000.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#storylink=cpy

Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama. Yet, like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance, they were floored last week when they opened their bills: Their policies were being replaced with pricier plans that conform to all the requirements of the new health care law. Vinson, of San Jose, will pay $1,800 more a year for an individual policy, while Waschura, of Portola Valley, will cough up almost $10,000 more for insurance for his family of four. - See more at: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013....ggk7xyv4.dpuf


“I was laughing at Boehner — until the mail came today,” Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare. “I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so ****ed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.” - See more at: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013....ggk7xyv4.dpuf



The president told us Obamacare would make health insurance affordable and reduce costs. It is now impossible for our family to afford private health insurance.”Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#storylink=cpy


When the truth starts coming out about Obamacare, and not all the lies that people have been buying into (you can keep your policy, insurance will be cheaper, etc etc) I suspect more and more people will side with keeping that 10,000 bucks in their pocket. Time is on the Republicans side. Probably no accident that they waited until Obamacare kicked in to finally stand up to it.

One after another these negative stories are proven false. In a system where in the doctors make a profit bonus based upon profit the hospital makes plus the profit the insurance company makes you see the lobbyists fighting hard for big profits.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by rugatika

By far my favourite quote of the week: From an Obama voter speaking to a reporter after finding out her health insurance would be going up 1800 a year. "Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the who was going to pay for it personally."



If that doesn't epitomize the liberal mindset I don't know what does. Everyone gets a unicorn as long as it's with someone else's money. Priceless.

In a system that has 40% of Americans without insurance being on charity and the 60% paying for it. The new system says if you can afford it you should have minimal insurance so more will be paying for coverage so costs should come down.

All the negative campaigning means nothing until you see how it works in practice.

I could not imagine having a disease then getting cured only to find out it comes ack and is deemed a per-existing condition and your house will be needed to try and help.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

China has been able to exploit this market and now the US is dependent on China to sustain it's need for cheap commodities.

Had to reread this thread this morning instead of starting a new one. You make a valid point RWM about the US being dependant on China for imports - but the most dangerous part of all this is that the Chinese locked into the US economy. China has invested trillions into the US market - and from what economists are saying, it was to devalue their own dollar.

Pretty much sounds like if the US goes down, China is going with it. If the US defaults, China will hurt.

Makes one wonder about the timing of all this. The debt ceiling is to be raised by the 17th, if it doesn't happen, the US is in default. Are they willing to take that gamble or is it just political grandstanding. I'm pretty sure some people in China are biting their nails at the moment.

Forbes has an interesting article on it, and it's not just forbes.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/19/chi...-dispatch.html

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Because I'm a fair and balanced type of guy,

Just like FOX News! LOL Have you heard from their lawyers yet?

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Just like FOX News! LOL Have you heard from their lawyers yet?

I'm a licenced user.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by greylynx

If that is your definition of "man up" could you please refer to Mr. TBD who did an excellent job of expounding my idea in a less colloquial manner.

Sorry I no longer waste my time talking to over developed mouths with under developed minds.

Its enough I think that I stated that I disagree with you on that point and... clear as to why.

No need for referal to a partisan mediator.

[TBD]

Are you trying to start another fight ?

... it's pretty clear on AO who's got the problem running his mouth.

I know - couldn't help yourself .....

TBD

PS look 3rd man in is already here !

[Okotokian]

[rugatika]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...al_begins.html

Read the comments. Hilarious. All these people that got promised the world are finding out what conservatives were telling them all along was true. Oh man. Republicans have everything to gain. Obama is already weakening. Must have had a look at some internal polling.

No Free Lunch!!

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

One after another these negative stories are proven false. In a system where in the doctors make a profit bonus based upon profit the hospital makes plus the profit the insurance company makes you see the lobbyists fighting hard for big profits.

Well then. I'm still waiting to see the proof. Show me the proof that this story is false like you say it is.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

In a system that has 40% of Americans without insurance being on charity and the 60% paying for it. The new system says if you can afford it you should have minimal insurance so more will be paying for coverage so costs should come down.

All the negative campaigning means nothing until you see how it works in practice.

__________________________________________________ ___

Obama Care is in operation now, WHo's coverage is better and cheaper compared to before ?


TBD


PS ... if the dems get away with socializing their medical industry - it'll go down as the largest TAX grab in history !

[markg]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Oh yeah...I can just imagine what would happen if they shut doen the NSA and then some idiot set off a bomb in a parking lot at some National Park/

Start looking for the real rundown instead of lapping up what some left or right wong punduit spoon feeds you.

Half of them are failures at everything but creating division, disinformation and anger.
Many of them have backgrounds that they would prefer you didn't know about.

They are salesmen.
They make their money by and are tollerated because they work tirelessly to ensure that reasonable people on the left and right NEVER sit down together and compare notes.

If people did... they'd drag these guys out and hang em from lamp posts.

I couldnt agree more well said