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07-23-2014, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack88
I don't know? Why don't we try it and find out.
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And do that instead of jumping to conclusions? What!
For 2008-2012, NRHH purchased 1.2% of all the draw antlered Moose, Trophy pronghorn and Antlered mule deer licences.
I offered a way to increase MD draw licences by 100% while others are focused on the 1%. Which option could actually make a difference?
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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07-23-2014, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,422
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07-23-2014, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, SE
Posts: 428
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How?
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
And do that instead of jumping to conclusions? What!
For 2008-2012, NRHH purchased 1.2% of all the draw antlered Moose, Trophy pronghorn and Antlered mule deer licences.
I offered a way to increase MD draw licences by 100% while others are focused on the 1%. Which option could actually make a difference?
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I missed your idea to increase MD tags...how?
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07-23-2014, 02:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpk1982
I missed your idea to increase MD tags...how?
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I have no idea how you could have missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
There are many much more effective and sound changes to current wildlife management practices that will result in more hunting licences which will result in lowering the priority required to draw a tag. Here's one.
Anybody want a quick easy way to double the number of draw licences available for many of these "trophy" hunts?
GET RID OF THEM!
If we simply got away from this "Trophy" management mentality there would be many more licences available, especially for species such as Mule Deer.
Instead of offering a harvest of 3-5% of the population as is done for a "trophy" Mule deer area, lets issue the 10-15% that the population can biologically withstand thus maximizing the licence availability while reducing the draw wait times.
Yes, I can hear the hard core Antler hunters.....
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__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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07-23-2014, 03:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raymond
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tox
I just don't see how mandatory purchase of a drawn tag is of any benefit. If a hunter is drawn, one could assume he had full intention of purchasing the tag otherwise he would have 999'd it. Whether he purchased the tag and not used or was unsuccessful or didn't purchase the tag really makes no difference other than he lost his priority.
999 in my opinion is a great took for planning a hunt. How can you complain about a hunter intentionally moving backwards in line to allow another to come up for another year.
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The last wild sheep newsletter there was a story in it that a young kid drew cadomin and didn't even know it till he went to buy a general tag. Which is great more power to him he went and had a successful hunt. Then at the end after the season was over the learned that the mom also drew but never even bothered to check what she drew. Total waste of a tag!
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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07-23-2014, 03:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
The last wild sheep newsletter there was a story in it that a young kid drew cadomin and didn't even know it till he went to buy a general tag. Which is great more power to him he went and had a successful hunt. Then at the end after the season was over the learned that the mom also drew but never even bothered to check what she drew. Total waste of a tag!
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If that happened, I bet neither of them knew that they were entered in the draw.
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07-23-2014, 03:33 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
And do that instead of jumping to conclusions? What!
For 2008-2012, NRHH purchased 1.2% of all the draw antlered Moose, Trophy pronghorn and Antlered mule deer licences.
I offered a way to increase MD draw licences by 100% while others are focused on the 1%. Which option could actually make a difference?
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Well then lets get rid of NR tags for everything except black bear and whitetail.
You are starting to strike me as someone who would be losing money somewhere along the line if non-resident hunting was cut back.
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07-23-2014, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Just out of curiosity, when was the last time there was an increase in the fees for draws / hunting licences ?
Alberta licensing and draw application fees are pretty "cheap" imo ... everything else increases over time. Besides, aren't we complaining about lack of ESRD funding / wildlife act enforcement as well? Doesn't a lot of the money used to pay for these services come from government licensing fees?
Maybe a slight increase would be a good thing ... for reasons other than making hunting an "elitist" sport ... 10$ / draw is pretty reasonable imo
Last edited by PBHunter; 07-23-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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07-23-2014, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, SE
Posts: 428
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Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
There are many much more effective and sound changes to current wildlife management practices that will result in more hunting licences which will result in lowering the priority required to draw a tag. Here's one.
Anybody want a quick easy way to double the number of draw licences available for many of these "trophy" hunts?
GET RID OF THEM!
If we simply got away from this "Trophy" management mentality there would be many more licences available, especially for species such as Mule Deer.
Instead of offering a harvest of 3-5% of the population as is done for a "trophy" Mule deer area, lets issue the 10-15% that the population can biologically withstand thus maximizing the licence availability while reducing the draw wait times.
Yes, I can hear the hard core Antler hunters.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
I have no idea how you could have missed it.
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I agree with you....I know of several zones close to me crawling with MD and ridiculously low tags issued. Saving the deer for others it seems?
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07-23-2014, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 594
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Chuck strikes me as a guy who would fart in the grocery line just so he doesn't have to wait his turn to get to the till.
If you want to hunt the same animal in the same WMU as everyone else, wait or choose a different animal and area.
Eventually some people will get tired of waiting 12 years to hunt so they will naturally stop applying. Others will say I really want to hunt that so I will wait behind everyone else. You speak about prioritizing your hunts so I say to you, if it is a priority to you to hunt that species, then you will wait, if you aren't willing to wait, it must not be a priority for you.
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Never underestimate the power of explosives...
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07-23-2014, 03:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Back in Lethbridge
Posts: 4,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack88
Well then lets get rid of NR tags for everything except black bear and whitetail.
You are starting to strike me as someone who would be losing money somewhere along the line if non-resident hunting was cut back.
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Wow, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.
You have been given the NR numbers, but you still want to focus on <2% of the drawn tags. Making that handful of tags unavailable to the fathers/brothers/mothers/sisters/children and life long friends of Alberta resident will surely solve this problem....
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07-23-2014, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
Wow, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.
You have been given the NR numbers, but you still want to focus on <2% of the drawn tags. Making that handful of tags unavailable to the fathers/brothers/mothers/sisters/children and life long friends of Alberta resident will surely solve this problem....
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These are just mere suggestions. Will anything come of the ones I suggested? Probably not.
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07-23-2014, 04:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
Wow, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.
You have been given the NR numbers, but you still want to focus on <2% of the drawn tags. Making that handful of tags unavailable to the fathers/brothers/mothers/sisters/children and life long friends of Alberta resident will surely solve this problem....
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Exactly because they DO NOT live here!
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07-23-2014, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat
Chuck strikes me as a guy who would fart in the grocery line just so he doesn't have to wait his turn to get to the till.
If you want to hunt the same animal in the same WMU as everyone else, wait or choose a different animal and area.
Eventually some people will get tired of waiting 12 years to hunt so they will naturally stop applying. Others will say I really want to hunt that so I will wait behind everyone else. You speak about prioritizing your hunts so I say to you, if it is a priority to you to hunt that species, then you will wait, if you aren't willing to wait, it must not be a priority for you.
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That's what I'm hoping for. Someone to get tired of waiting after 12 years so I can be right there to snatch the opportunity.
How ludicrous can you be?
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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07-23-2014, 04:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
For 2008-2012, NRHH purchased 1.2% of all the draw antlered Moose, Trophy pronghorn and Antlered mule deer licences.
I offered a way to increase MD draw licences by 100% while others are focused on the 1%. Which option could actually make a difference?
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The 2008-2012 numbers cannot be used to accurately account for the numbers of NR/NRHH that are currently plugging up our draw system.
Think about it. they would have needed anywhere from a P3-P8 on most of these draws to get drawn and be included in the 2008-2012 survey. Meaning those NRHH representing 1.2% of the drawn started applying in the early to mid 2000's.
Those in the draw system today are much greater than 1.2%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudelpointer
Wow, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.
You have been given the NR numbers, but you still want to focus on <2% of the drawn tags. Making that handful of tags unavailable to the fathers/brothers/mothers/sisters/children and life long friends of Alberta resident will surely solve this problem....
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Speaking of barking. The numbers you a WB continue to cite are irrelevant and misleading. Therefore you are misleading people in your defense of NR's in the draw system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullgetter
Exactly because they DO NOT live here!
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X2
I consider it an injustice if a single resident has to wait even one extra year because a NR is taking his place in a limited draw hunt.
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07-23-2014, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 43
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If you haven't already, maybe attend a few of you local Fish and Game club meetings. Or just call your local fish and game biologist within the province. There are big changes coming to our draw system which will supersede this letter. We as outdoorsmen need to stop referring to the past, when we could draw a moose tag every second year. Our province population is at its highest ever along with number of hunters, therefore the draw wait is longer. cant change that.
I am not even going to comment on the trophy/draw application fee hike.
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07-23-2014, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat
Chuck strikes me as a guy who would fart in the grocery line just so he doesn't have to wait his turn to get to the till.
If you want to hunt the same animal in the same WMU as everyone else, wait or choose a different animal and area.
Eventually some people will get tired of waiting 12 years to hunt so they will naturally stop applying. Others will say I really want to hunt that so I will wait behind everyone else. You speak about prioritizing your hunts so I say to you, if it is a priority to you to hunt that species, then you will wait, if you aren't willing to wait, it must not be a priority for you.
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Lots of thought put into that post eh! Just stand idol and do nothing is clearly how you roll. For those that give a hoot and brainstorm new ideas you then toss insults at... Useless post, grow up.
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07-23-2014, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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How many folks in the draw are actually Non-residents.....but enter our draws under the guise of being a resident? I have a feeling if we could get to the bottom of that issue it would be much larger than 2%
LC
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07-23-2014, 06:30 PM
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1)Clean up the non resident tags being bought under the premise of being residents
2) Outfitter tags limited to Black Bear and Whitetail.
3) limited tags to non resident Canadians. I like to Hunt Saskatchewan and BC so I would be hipacritical to not allow them to come here
4) I agree on the automatic purchase once a tag was drawn as I hate to see rare and once in a lifetime tags wasted
5) raise the draw prices to $25 dollars. If you can afford to hunt you can afford $25 dollars to enter the draw. There is no such thing as cheap meat these days so dont give me that excuse. 25 dollars is cheap enough for those guys who are serious but expensive enough to keep from entering the the whole family in every draw just because.
6) Consider trophy tags for more species other than Sheep. I would gladly pay a couple of hundred bucks for a trophy MD tag and the meat guys can shoot the spikes ect for meat if that is really what they want for 40 bucks. I am a trophy hunter and make no excuses for it and would pay to play.
7) Cap priority at 12. Not popular but the only way we can provide opportunites to future generations of hunters. also like the way some states allow you to buy and extra priority point or two. Make it 200 dollars a point with a maximum of 1 extra point purchase in any year on each draw.
Just my thoughts and for the record at least Chuck is trying to make an effort for what he believes is a solution. Most people including me just muse off on here and dont make an effort to seek change. Good on you Chuck for at least making an effort.
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07-23-2014, 06:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hythe
Posts: 4,354
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Seems to be some selfish people on here. We all have to wait our turn.
NR hunters! I'd be pretty peeved if my son/daughter was posted in another province and I couldn't hunt with him/her
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07-23-2014, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norwestalta
Seems to be some selfish people on here. We all have to wait our turn.
NR hunters! I'd be pretty peeved if my son/daughter was posted in another province and I couldn't hunt with him/her
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You could under what I suggested....you would just have to share a single tag instead of each having your own.
LC
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07-23-2014, 06:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: south of Edm
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norwestalta
Seems to be some selfish people on here. We all have to wait our turn.
NR hunters! I'd be pretty peeved if my son/daughter was posted in another province and I couldn't hunt with him/her
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I am all for non-resident hunters. But only for general tags or draws that need less than a 3 priority.
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07-23-2014, 06:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: south of Edm
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond k
1)Clean up the non resident tags being bought under the premise of being residents
2) Outfitter tags limited to Black Bear and Whitetail. any general tag
3) limited tags to non resident Canadians. I like to Hunt Saskatchewan and BC so I would be hipacritical to not allow them to come here. Have you hunted trophy mule deer in sask?
4) I agree on the automatic purchase once a tag was drawn as I hate to see rare and once in a lifetime tags wasted
5) raise the draw prices to $25 dollars. If you can afford to hunt you can afford $25 dollars to enter the draw. There is no such thing as cheap meat these days so dont give me that excuse. 25 dollars is cheap enough for those guys who are serious but expensive enough to keep from entering the the whole family in every draw just because.
6) Consider trophy tags for more species other than Sheep. I would gladly pay a couple of hundred bucks for a trophy MD tag and the meat guys can shoot the spikes ect for meat if that is really what they want for 40 bucks. I am a trophy hunter and make no excuses for it and would pay to play.
7) Cap priority at 12. Not popular but the only way we can provide opportunites to future generations of hunters. also like the way some states allow you to buy and extra priority point or two. Make it 200 dollars a point with a maximum of 1 extra point purchase in any year on each draw. No cap!
Just my thoughts and for the record at least Chuck is trying to make an effort for what he believes is a solution. Most people including me just muse off on here and dont make an effort to seek change. Good on you Chuck for at least making an effort.
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agree with some
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07-23-2014, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond k
1)
5) raise the draw prices to $25 dollars. If you can afford to hunt you can afford $25 dollars to enter the draw. There is no such thing as cheap meat these days so dont give me that excuse. 25 dollars is cheap enough for those guys who are serious but expensive enough to keep from entering the the whole family in every draw just because.
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So if you and your two kids want to apply for mule deer (antlered and antlerless) and elk. Just fork over $225 to throw your names into the draw. Might not even be drawn. If you are, add license costs. Oh, and want to 999 a bunch for hunts in future years, throw in a few hundred $ more. Somehow paying a grand every year to the Alberta Government general revenue fund will make everything all better for hunters.
Crazy solution to an undefined, possibly non-existant problem. I have bought and hunted every license opportunity I've ever been drawn for. You are doing a pretty poor job of convincing me why I And other reponsible, planful hunters should have to pay several times more to the government than at present.
I've got a great idea to lower traffic fatalities. Let's charge $5000 a year for a license plate. I can afford it, but many can't, so we will have fewer cars on the road and a more safe environment for everyone.
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07-23-2014, 06:51 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond k
1)Clean up the non resident tags being bought under the premise of being residents
2) Outfitter tags limited to Black Bear and Whitetail.
3) limited tags to non resident Canadians. I like to Hunt Saskatchewan and BC so I would be hipacritical to not allow them to come here
4) I agree on the automatic purchase once a tag was drawn as I hate to see rare and once in a lifetime tags wasted
5) raise the draw prices to $25 dollars. If you can afford to hunt you can afford $25 dollars to enter the draw. There is no such thing as cheap meat these days so dont give me that excuse. 25 dollars is cheap enough for those guys who are serious but expensive enough to keep from entering the the whole family in every draw just because.
6) Consider trophy tags for more species other than Sheep. I would gladly pay a couple of hundred bucks for a trophy MD tag and the meat guys can shoot the spikes ect for meat if that is really what they want for 40 bucks. I am a trophy hunter and make no excuses for it and would pay to play.
7) Cap priority at 12. Not popular but the only way we can provide opportunites to future generations of hunters. also like the way some states allow you to buy and extra priority point or two. Make it 200 dollars a point with a maximum of 1 extra point purchase in any year on each draw.
Just my thoughts and for the record at least Chuck is trying to make an effort for what he believes is a solution. Most people including me just muse off on here and dont make an effort to seek change. Good on you Chuck for at least making an effort.
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Pretty good!
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07-23-2014, 08:07 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,060
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Don't really get the non res guys hunting here as a problem if they pay alberta income tax and have an alberta drivers licence who cares if they go to NFLD on their days off. I can't see the east coasters posing as albertans being a big problem when it comes to soaking up tags. Most don't hunt here most are officially alberta residents and pay our income tax. And most have been working here for over 2 yrs anyway
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Life Member Wild Sheep Foundation
Life Member GSCO
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07-23-2014, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck Country
Don't really get the non res guys hunting here as a problem if they pay alberta income tax and have an alberta drivers licence who cares if they go to NFLD on their days off. I can't see the east coasters posing as albertans being a big problem when it comes to soaking up tags. Most don't hunt here most are officially alberta residents and pay our income tax. And most have been working here for over 2 yrs anyway
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Many people that work in Alberta that purchase resident tags, don't even have an Alberta drivers license. Many of them just work here, and their principal residence is in another province, but because our regulations are so lax, they just provide an Alberta address, and purchase resident tags. If you lived and worked in Fort McMurray, you would realize just how many people are doing this.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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07-23-2014, 08:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
So if you and your two kids want to apply for mule deer (antlered and antlerless) and elk. Just fork over $225 to throw your names into the draw. Might not even be drawn. If you are, add license costs. Oh, and want to 999 a bunch for hunts in future years, throw in a few hundred $ more. Somehow paying a grand every year to the Alberta Government general revenue fund will make everything all better for hunters.
Crazy solution to an undefined, possibly non-existant problem. I have bought and hunted every license opportunity I've ever been drawn for. You are doing a pretty poor job of convincing me why I And other reponsible, planful hunters should have to pay several times more to the government than at present.
I've got a great idea to lower traffic fatalities. Let's charge $5000 a year for a license plate. I can afford it, but many can't, so we will have fewer cars on the road and a more safe environment for everyone.
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Not sure where you come up with $225. My calculation according to your model of 3 people with 2 draws comes up to 150 dollars. ( EDIT sorry I mised the elk) And yes if you want your kids to apply that is the cost. I have paid for my licences since I was 14 because it was important to me.
Not my issue if you cant see the problems with the current system or my job to convince you of anything.
Your example of trafffic fatalities is completely irrelevant as no one stops you from going to buy a drivers license so find another relevant comparison if you want to continue the debate
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07-23-2014, 08:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Many people that work in Alberta that purchase resident tags, don't even have an Alberta drivers license. Many of them just work here, and their principal residence is in another province, but because our regulations are so lax, they just provide an Alberta address, and purchase resident tags. If you lived and worked in Fort McMurray, you would realize just how many people are doing this.
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Exactly. It is a running joke in Ft Mac
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07-23-2014, 08:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond k
Exactly. It is a running joke in Ft Mac
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And then they return to their home province , and hunt as residents there as well. Some people do this year after year.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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