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03-23-2019, 07:55 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3illy
What hes actually showing all the people with their narrow vision pre determined stereo types is that not much will change...
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Narrow vision??? Bull shyt.
Straight up 100% true story. I just saw a Metis card from a gentlemen who I 100% know every square inch of his ancestry. The only "Metis" he has is that he married a nice lady who has some far flung Metis ancestors. I'm interested see what he can accomplish. He is going to test the system and see what he can make happen. As I find out more, I will report back.
As he put it.. This is all about trying to get to the same level of the only first nations in this country.
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03-23-2019, 08:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,006
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Seems like you have some shady friends Jamie. What is it you and others were calling them earlier in the thread again??? Speaks volumes of you that your friends will want to game the system.
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03-23-2019, 08:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush
My interpretation is Trigger7mm is a proud Metis who would has made his own way instead of looking for special treatment. It also appears that he can see the value in our conservation system and would rather apply for draws and buy tags like everyone else. It also seems like his focus is on maintaining wildlife for generations to come instead of taking all he wants for himself.
Looks like he also thinks we should act as ONE group and fight the battles at hand. He also thinks we should enjoy our weekend.
Like I said, just my interpretation, could be way off.
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You’re right Buckbrush, that’s the point I was trying to make. If I don’t get to shoot a moose, because I didn’t get drawn for one, it’s not a big deal like it may have been 150 years ago. For a family that are falling on hard times, and can genuinely use the meet, then I would have no problem with that. I hope that fellow Métis hunters don’t let greed dictate their actions just because of their new found rights. Last fall I met a guy who was up hunting for “whatever he saw”. When I asked him what he meant, he said it was because he had a treaty card. I know for a fact that he had already taken a large bull elk several weeks before the regular hunting season. How much meat does a person need. I might add that this fellow didn’t look at all hard up from the type of rifle and gear he had with him. It was all top shelf equipment. Let’s all just try to preserve and manage all we have to enjoy. Our future generations are depending on us.
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03-23-2019, 08:56 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3illy
Seems like you have some shady friends Jamie. What is it you and others were calling them earlier in the thread again??? Speaks volumes of you that your friends will want to game the system.
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So, where in what I said did I call him my friend? Nice way to switch the channel.
I believe that a apology is in order here. No where did I call him my friend, you are just looking for a reason to fight. You are supporting a indefensible position and now are wanting to take this to a personal level. Sorry, I won't allow that and I hope the mods take note.
He wants to see how far he can push this and just where it ends up. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
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03-23-2019, 08:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger7mm
You’re right Buckbrush, that’s the point I was trying to make. If I don’t get to shoot a moose, because I didn’t get drawn for one, it’s not a big deal like it may have been 150 years ago. For a family that are falling on hard times, and can genuinely use the meet, then I would have no problem with that. I hope that fellow Métis hunters don’t let greed dictate their actions just because of their new found rights. Last fall I met a guy who was up hunting for “whatever he saw”. When I asked him what he meant, he said it was because he had a treaty card. I know for a fact that he had already taken a large bull elk several weeks before the regular hunting season. How much meat does a person need. I might add that this fellow didn’t look at all hard up from the type of rifle and gear he had with him. It was all top shelf equipment. Let’s all just try to preserve and manage all we have to enjoy. Our future generations are depending on us.
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I cant see how this is about meat considering the survey from the Metis themselves. Seems the vast majority is willing to drive any place from 3 hours + in the province to hunt. That tells me they are not doing it for any reason other than sport and greed. Your story doesn't surprise me. This is getting taken advantage of and now the flood gates are open.
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03-23-2019, 09:08 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
He wants to see how far he can push this and just where it ends up. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
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Yep, he's trying to put words in your mouth, start fights and stir the pot.
I honestly think he is disappointed that this has turned into a civil debate with great input from many members FN/Metis and those of us that are neither.
I also think he is frustrated that we have pretty much all came to an agreement on what in best for the wildlife besides him.
Typical of him.
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03-23-2019, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 540
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There was a Facebook post on this topic on AHA. One Métis harvester said he was glad for the expanded hunting territories because game was getting lean within the 160km radius in his territory.
There’s a lot of responsible FN and Métis hunters who take what they need and don’t abuse the system. Some Métis folks on this thread are a prime example of those who contribute in a meaningful way to conservation regardless of their rights.
But just like any other race, there are bad apples. This expanded territory gives them free range to ruin things for everyone. The number of applicants for Métis harvester status will rise and if even 5-10% treat it as a free for all and shoot 5 moose a year each, the animal population will suffer greatly. Draw times will increase for everyone else in these expanded harvest areas which will in turn create an even larger divide between races.
Would I like to see the treaties ripped up in today’s modern world and offer a one time buyout? Sure. Is it fair? Probably not. We signed the treaties with them and I’m for honoring contracts. That being said, the provincial government has the authority to dictate the size of these harvest areas and the size of the new areas is way to big. Hopefully a new government will change this legislation.
I’m not sure what the solution is to be honest. I’m all for equality regardless of race, but I’m also for honoring agreements.
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03-23-2019, 11:03 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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If you want to talk heritage and tradition...I’m a 7th generation NBer since early 1800s.
As recent as 80 years ago,my grandfather shot moose when he was hungry,and in the fall he pitchforked a wagon full of salmon for the winter as they swam over the gravel bar.Unregulated subsistence hunting and fishing is part of my heritage.Maybe I should be able to poach as many moose and salmon as I want because my ancestors did?
Now don’t get me wrong...I get that FNs want to preserve their heritage,and I’ve got no issue with that.
If you want to run down moose on snow shoes and spear them,or run around the prairies in a loin cloth with bow and arrow chasing mulies and bison,have at’er I say.
4x4 trucks,quads and centerfire rifles are NOT part of your heritage or tradition.
When most of these Treaties were written granting hunting/fishing rights for all eternity(especially back east going back to 1700s) Canada was an unspoiled wilderness for the most part,and nobody could have possibly dreamed that the resources are not infinite.
Live in the now for chrisakes,unregulated hunting with modern methods isn’t sustainable,isn’t responsible,and is a crime against nature and future generations,red and white alike.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Last edited by West O'5; 03-23-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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03-24-2019, 12:08 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Narrow vision??? Bull shyt.
Straight up 100% true story. I just saw a Metis card from a gentlemen who I 100% know every square inch of his ancestry. The only "Metis" he has is that he married a nice lady who has some far flung Metis ancestors. I'm interested see what he can accomplish. He is going to test the system and see what he can make happen. As I find out more, I will report back.
As he put it.. This is all about trying to get to the same level of the only first nations in this country.
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So because his wife is Métis, the govt issued him a Métis card? Am I reading this correct? My ex wife and daughter are Métis. I’ll have to look into it.
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03-24-2019, 12:54 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
So because his wife is Métis, the govt issued him a Métis card? Am I reading this correct? My ex wife and daughter are Métis. I’ll have to look into it.
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Thats exactly how it happened. I even saw the damn plastic card. I asked him if it was fake, I was stunned.
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03-24-2019, 01:36 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Narrow vision??? Bull shyt.
Straight up 100% true story. I just saw a Metis card from a gentlemen who I 100% know every square inch of his ancestry. The only "Metis" he has is that he married a nice lady who has some far flung Metis ancestors. I'm interested see what he can accomplish. He is going to test the system and see what he can make happen. As I find out more, I will report back.
As he put it.. This is all about trying to get to the same level of the only first nations in this country.
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I think to get recognized as Metis your relatives cannot be so far flung. You mention a guy who married into his Metis card and is going to see what he can accomplish. I am not so sure the Metis community will kindly support this type of activities from an associate member. This whole process with the government and the laws of the land is a structured co-ordination of all parties involved. Even historically when the Metis were commercial hunters for the fur trade their hunts were very structured and orderly. I would like to think the Metis communities still have structure and discipline with their hunting members and won't tolerate people pushing boundaries they work hard to establish. With such privilege written into laws will come responsibility and accountability. Let's not forget international indigenous associations and agencies are watching too.
And a side note rebutting the comments of Metis having to go back to using primitive stone age weapons. Before first contact in North America First Nations were in the stone age utilizing stone tools. The Metis people were are result of the mingling of FN people with the newcomers to the new world. The newcomers brought with them firearms and steel weapons. So when the very first Metis people were born they were born into firearms and have just as much a right to use them. The Metis were not of the stone age. They were the bridge between two ages and cultures born after first contact.
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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03-24-2019, 03:19 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3illy
Kurt your arguement is that you want treaty rights removed because you dont like it and it's not fair. Discussions if they ever start like this wont go anywhere.
First nations have been told forever what to do, where to live and where to go to school and now you want to decide that you want to remove any other rights they have.
Good luck with that.
There are underlying concerns I agree with that are shared by us all when it comes to conservation but this message is lost when peoples prejudices and stereotypes take over.
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All of those things you mentioned were caused by the treaties, now is a great time to treat everyone equal. Get rid of treaties and make it so everyone has the same right and rules that is the biggest thing.
My family is traced back to 1534 and 1536 on my Grandpas side does this make me any different then some one who came to Canada 5 years ago?
No I have to follow the same rules as them.
Yes I am Metis as well both my uncles and Grandfather have the card.
It is time that everyone is equal under all laws.
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03-24-2019, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Thats exactly how it happened. I even saw the damn plastic card. I asked him if it was fake, I was stunned.
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It doesn’t work that way. You must be a bloodline descendent, you can’t marry into it. Not sure what half truths he told to get that card but it sounds very fishy. Anyways, just because you hold a Métis card does not mean that you can be a Métis harvester. Your descendants must be from an Alberta Métis community, pre 1900s. I hold a Métis card but cannot be a harvester because my ancestral family is from Manitoba. Wish I could hunt more as didn’t kill a damn thing with my bow last hunting season. Oh well, carry on as usual.
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03-24-2019, 09:11 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush
Yep, he's trying to put words in your mouth, start fights and stir the pot.
I honestly think he is disappointed that this has turned into a civil debate with great input from many members FN/Metis and those of us that are neither.
I also think he is frustrated that we have pretty much all came to an agreement on what in best for the wildlife besides him.
Typical of him.
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Yes, he’s definitely a troll, and always tries to paint the same picture, always trying to turn a civil discussion into a race war.
Unfortunately for him it’s all too plain to see that the concerns we have, have nothing to do with race but everything to do with conservation.
What I don’t understand is, is that the Alberta government says there’s an increase in population and over fishing so they shut down fishing, they say there is declining moose populations so they open up harvesting rights for 100,000 Alberta residents....
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03-24-2019, 09:30 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bullets
I think to get recognized as Metis your relatives cannot be so far flung. You mention a guy who married into his Metis card and is going to see what he can accomplish. I am not so sure the Metis community will kindly support this type of activities from an associate member. This whole process with the government and the laws of the land is a structured co-ordination of all parties involved. Even historically when the Metis were commercial hunters for the fur trade their hunts were very structured and orderly. I would like to think the Metis communities still have structure and discipline with their hunting members and won't tolerate people pushing boundaries they work hard to establish. With such privilege written into laws will come responsibility and accountability. Let's not forget international indigenous associations and agencies are watching too.
I would have thought so as well..Until I held the card in my hand!
And a side note rebutting the comments of Metis having to go back to using primitive stone age weapons. Before first contact in North America First Nations were in the stone age utilizing stone tools. The Metis people were are result of the mingling of FN people with the newcomers to the new world. The newcomers brought with them firearms and steel weapons. So when the very first Metis people were born they were born into firearms and have just as much a right to use them. The Metis were not of the stone age. They were the bridge between two ages and cultures born after first contact.
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So your saying the Metis are 3rd nation? Seriously, why on earth were they ever recognized? Lets hope some day that charter gets ripped up as I don't think it is valid as it is missing a signature or 2.
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03-24-2019, 09:36 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passthru
It doesn’t work that way. You must be a bloodline descendent, you can’t marry into it. Not sure what half truths he told to get that card but it sounds very fishy. Anyways, just because you hold a Métis card does not mean that you can be a Métis harvester. Your descendants must be from an Alberta Métis community, pre 1900s. I hold a Métis card but cannot be a harvester because my ancestral family is from Manitoba. Wish I could hunt more as didn’t kill a damn thing with my bow last hunting season. Oh well, carry on as usual.
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Ok, once again, I held it in my hand. What his specific rights are, I do not know. I am just saying that the system is screwed and the whole idea of this is bad. His wife very pointedly brought up the fact they needed to get the kids registered in hopes that more "rights" will become available as the kids get older.
I really don't blame them for the kids. If I could find a advantage for my kids they will have access if I can help. I just managed to get my Son his USA citizenship. I would doubt that he will use this Metis card for anything other than to have a really good story around camp.
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03-24-2019, 10:08 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Thats exactly how it happened. I even saw the damn plastic card. I asked him if it was fake, I was stunned.
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No way. You have to have bloodline. You don’t have correct info or you are trolling. Métis applicants must provide extensive family tree history.
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03-24-2019, 10:10 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,840
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A solution
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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03-24-2019, 10:15 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter
No way. You have to have bloodline. You don’t have correct info or you are trolling. Métis applicants must provide extensive family tree history.
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Once again.. I HAD THE CARD IN MY HAND!!!!!!!!
Jesus christ, just listen
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03-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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The last thing that we need is to create even more long term benefits based on race.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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I'd be very much against that.
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03-24-2019, 10:24 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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The alternative is to not have them recognized as "First nations" in the first place. That was the original travesty and really seems to have watered down the whole subject.
How we allow "Nations" within our own NATION of Canada is baffling to me.
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03-24-2019, 10:34 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Once again.. I HAD THE CARD IN MY HAND!!!!!!!!
Jesus christ, just listen
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If he has card then he must have bloodline.
Jesus Christ, just listen
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03-24-2019, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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Store bought meat is a pale comparison to wild and natural meat.
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03-24-2019, 10:45 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter
If he has card then he must have bloodline.
Jesus Christ, just listen
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He 100% does not have that bloodline. I could never be more right about anything. I already said that.
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03-24-2019, 10:56 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,537
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Métis info
As I sit back and read all of this, I wonder what would happen if the truth could be known; how many animals are taken by traditional hunters compared to the number of animals taken (poached) illegally, annually by non traditional hunters. When in reality it is habitat destruction that is the main sturg to wildlife in our province. Take a drive through east central Alberta and see how many brush patches are sitting as stump piles in the fields. Not only do they take out habitat for ungulates, but entire eco systems.
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03-24-2019, 10:57 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I think giving Métis or natives a “meat allowance” in beef or pork in exchange for their hunting privileges might be the way out. So much meat per month for every head in the family. The grocery stores would benefit as would the farmers and ranchers.
Seems like a strange and crappy way to have to deal with the situation but I don’t see any alternative way to deal with these issues.
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In the states they have reintroduced bison from Yellowstone to the reserves.
They have built the population up and have been able to feed their people and share them with other reserves so they can start their own herds.
We have a perfect donor site right here
Elk island park
And they could even buy herds from farmers to speed up the reintroduction
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03-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
He 100% does not have that bloodline. I could never be more right about anything. I already said that.
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Lol Sorry to burst your bubble bud, but you are wrong. Maybe you don’t have all relevant info. I’ve never been more right about anything.
It does not work that way.
Stop trying to stir the pot
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03-24-2019, 11:08 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 112
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I am also a Metis. Good to go.
I'll never use this. I do know some family's that will though, and that's a good thing.
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03-24-2019, 11:13 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger7mm
As I sit back and read all of this, I wonder what would happen if the truth could be known; how many animals are taken by traditional hunters compared to the number of animals taken (poached) illegally, annually by non traditional hunters. When in reality it is habitat destruction that is the main sturg to wildlife in our province. Take a drive through east central Alberta and see how many brush patches are sitting as stump piles in the fields. Not only do they take out habitat for ungulates, but entire eco systems.
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Do you actually believe what you wrote here?
This past year I found 3 fn killed moose in 1 day. Cow calf moose that was shot at night. They only took the hinds off the cow. This is in a wmu where only 15 moose tags are available for draws
Uhhh east central Alberta has elk moose mule deer white tail deer antelope etc. The animals are thriving because it’s private land and they can’t be hunted 365 days a year.
You know how many animals I’ve seen on reserves in Alberta? I can count them on one hand. Hate to say it but fn can’t manage wildlife in canada
Last edited by marky_mark; 03-24-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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