Do you need premium bullets/ammo for hunting?

[abhunter8]

I know lots of animals are killed with cup and core bullets and I used them and recovered many from game animals I have shot from 1986-2003. Also during a 5 yr period late 90’s to early 2000’s, I wounded and did not recover 3 big Whitetail bucks and 1 moose, all with 139gr, 7mm hornady interlock bullets. Did I make a perfect shot, probably not but 2 of the 4 should have easily been recovered but after tracking for long distances, lost the blood and track. Since 2005 I have been using bonded bullets, Nosler accubond or similar and I have not wounded and lost an animal nor have I recovered any bullets from any shot game. I have however missed a few, damn I hate the buck fever!

[marky_mark]

..

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

oh you'll be back Cat, a song is coming to mind here

we both said same thing, the animal may certainly register the hit more dramatically, just as the steel does...hello ft/lbs, but it's good you didn't say one kills and one doesn't because that would be false, you hit both scenarios same place you get same result in terms of dead or not dead, same penetration depth, same expansion ratio, same ratio of energy dump per inch, but dead is dead, maybe the lapua knocks it off it's feet, maybe the prc it runs 50 yards, but dead is dead, the work necessary of either was done, one just far more efficient than the other in terms of the work it puts reversely into your shoulder

we are saying the same thing, just differently, and one possibly believing it slightly differently than the other too

I’ll say the 338 kills better 100% of the time

[marky_mark]

And with the 6.5 prc shooting eldm’s not being able to take anything but ideal shots with a high chance of bullet failure

[nelsonob1]

I think we sometimes over think some of this technical stuff but if it matters to you, then it probably matters. For the sake of an extra $100 a season just buy the primo and then you have one less thing to worry about.

Most hunters though, myself include, would get a better return out of investing one more hour a month at the range than earning an extra $30 for the premium ammunition.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

And with the 6.5 prc shooting eldm’s not being able to take anything but ideal shots with a high chance of bullet failure

ya they will start to shine way out there when they finally slow down but agree they will break up more in normal distances but with .301 sd they can break up lots and do gobs of damage while still penetrating dependably so there's that...shoot what ya like

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I’ll say the 338 kills better 100% of the time

i could agree with this, but if that big ole pill doesn't open up much and just pokes a hole....and maybe most experiences would bear what you say out, but if you run a tough bullet and it doesn't open up reliably then it's often witnessed the other option mentioned will flatten the critters as if hit by lightning and we go round and round this merry go round again

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

i could agree with this, but if that big ole pill doesn't open up much and just pokes a hole....and maybe most experiences would bear what you say out, but if you run a tough bullet and it doesn't open up reliably then it's often witnessed the other option mentioned will flatten the critters as if hit by lightning and we go round and round this merry go round again

If it fails to open up....which has never happened not even once. It will still bore a bigger hole through the critter than them 6.5 Gumballs or Gumdrops or whatever them pop guns are called.

[BC7stw]

Someone a couple pages back asked what bullet failed, it was a Speer grand slam 160 gr .284 in a 7MM STW.

I’ve used these in a STW in the past and had great success with them in both 145 gr and 160 gr. Bad lot of bullets I guess.

Biggest bullet fail I experienced was with a 160 accubond in the STW. Although it killed 2 deer it was they literally exploded on impact and the tiny bits of lead and copper sprayed into the vitals. Found a couple small bits of copper sticking in the meat on the inside of the chest.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by BC7stw

Someone a couple pages back asked what bullet failed, it was a Speer grand slam 160 gr .284 in a 7MM STW.

I’ve used these in a STW in the past and had great success with them in both 145 gr and 160 gr. Bad lot of bullets I guess.

Biggest bullet fail I experienced was with a 160 accubond in the STW. Although it killed 2 deer it was they literally exploded on impact and the tiny bits of lead and copper sprayed into the vitals. Found a couple small bits of copper sticking in the meat on the inside of the chest.

I had my STW running hot and had explosive impacts on deer 100 yards or less with cup/core type bullets then went to Barnes X bullets...two holes and never recovered one...burnt a lot of powder back then

Called Sierra and chatted with a fella and he said back it down a bit or wait until the critters are further out....huh?

[BC7stw]

Funny one of the best performers I found in my STW was the 162 hornady interlock. Never a failure on bears moose or deer.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by BC7stw

Funny one of the best performers I found in my STW was the 162 hornady interlock. Never a failure on bears moose or deer.

yeah a little heavier bullet...didn't have great experiences with the 139gr...perhaps too high of impact velocity? if they had the GMX bullet then I would have gone that route...luv Hornady bullets overall but ya gotta take many things into perspective when selecting a bullet...we do our job and the bullet will do its.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by BC7stw

Someone a couple pages back asked what bullet failed, it was a Speer grand slam 160 gr .284 in a 7MM STW.

I’ve used these in a STW in the past and had great success with them in both 145 gr and 160 gr. Bad lot of bullets I guess.

Biggest bullet fail I experienced was with a 160 accubond in the STW. Although it killed 2 deer it was they literally exploded on impact and the tiny bits of lead and copper sprayed into the vitals. Found a couple small bits of copper sticking in the meat on the inside of the chest.

The new Grand Slams in the 30 cal and under aren’t dual cored!

They are just a glorified Mag Tip, now.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I had my STW running hot and had explosive impacts on deer 100 yards or less with cup/core type bullets then went to Barnes X bullets...two holes and never recovered one...burnt a lot of powder back then

Called Sierra and chatted with a fella and he said back it down a bit or wait until the critters are further out....huh?

There’s no huh about it......

Because the bullet was being driven outside of its performance envelope.

You are the end user, do some research before hand.

Perfect example of shooter error.

[blackburbot]

Originally Posted by Dick284

There’s no huh about it......

Because the bullet was being driven outside of its performance envelope.

You are the end user, do some research before hand.

Perfect example of shooter error.

100% agree. The majority of people are wanting these long range rifles capable of 1000yard clean kills. But shoot things at close range when bullets are outside their parameters. Why do you think hunting rifles were all designed to max out around 3000fps, typically 2800fps before? Bullets were and for the most part still are designed to efficiently transfer their energy at this max and have a min point for expansion. If you ran your vehicle at redline performance all the time how long and reliable will it be. Same with bullets, you push their limits and results aren't always what you were hoping for.

Just because a match bullet will kill a critter, does it mean it will 95%+ of the time...no. will a hunting designed bullet do a better job. Yes.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

There’s no huh about it......

Because the bullet was being driven outside of its performance envelope.

You are the end user, do some research before hand.

Perfect example of shooter error.

there was a slight huh...wait until critter is further away...that was my huh factor...I realized I was driving the bullet fast but also was wondering if they had a quality control issue so I called it in...batch number etc...as a nice guy is all...then went to barnes x...shooter error corrected from my end.

[raised by wolves]

I can't say any particular bullet is the best due to influences of range, velocity, weight, bullet placement, and even the type and size of game. I have used inexpensive, off the shelf ammo, premium shelf loads, and perfectly tweaked and adjusted hand loads, all using different types of bullets.

As a kid I only ever hunted with old school soft points. Later in life I gravitated towards the premium bullets. I stopped using the copper TTSX type bullets due to my experiences with limited expansion. Not saying they are not any good. I liked their accuracy and I saw deep wound channels with complete pass throughs even on moose and elk, and although they killed the animal, they did not anchor an animal unless it was a head shot. I then moved to the Accubonds. I love the accuracy I found but like the solid copper bullets, I did not find them to put an animal down on the spot. Every animal I killed with an Accubond was a runner, even with heart shots. I now find myself going back to Plain-Jane shelf loads like the Powershocks as they group consistently from a variety of rifles and cartridges and put an animal down fast, in all of the following cartridges - 243Win, 6mmRem, 260Rem, 270Win, 270WSM, 280Rem, 7-08, 7mmRM, 30-06, 308, 30-30, 300WSM, 35Whelen, and 375H&H. I have killed game with all of these cartridges and in my experience the unglamorous soft point is still the most efficient killer, based on my preference for a bullet that anchors an animal quickly.

[JULIUS]

Lots of good discussion here. For me I try to get the most accurate bullet for the particular firearm I am going to use that meets my own standard of effectiveness. I prefer to use partition bullets but if they will not give me the accuracy I need I am willing to experiment with other quality bullets. Accuracy first. Know my bullets and put them where they need to go. Big calibre like 300 mag with 200 grain partition will effect the animal differently than a 140 grain vld out of my 6.5x 284 norma. I know that so I reduce my chance for error as best I can by reducing distance and choosing shot placement.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by raised by wolves

I stopped using the copper TTSX type bullets due to my experiences with limited expansion.

Are you sure those were Barnes Blue tip TTSX or regular X or TSX hollow point?

I am using Barnes for many years and TTSX is my go-to bullet those days but I am open to change if there is a better choice.

As somebody mention, a monolithic 338 225gr bullet not opening does much more damage than your 308 in 150 gr almost disintegrating.

BTW Flat nose bullets make a much larger temporary cavity as compared to spire point all things being equal.

So if TTSX is Losing petals works like flat nose preferred for African dangerous game. If you find one you might think that it not expanded much.

150 gr.308 frontal shot on WT Buck penetrated about 1meter of deer. Did not expanded much?

[Andrzej]

One more about premium bullets;
If you have 20 minutes to kill watch this:
IMO this is an honest comparison of lead and non-lead bullets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyg43Jle6N0&t=32s

[Jerry D]

Out of curiosity, how many times does everyone feel people blame the bullet for poor shots or unfortunately simply don’t find the animal due to whatever reasons.

[Tronneroi]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

One more about premium bullets;
If you have 20 minutes to kill watch this:
IMO this is an honest comparison of lead and non-lead bullets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyg43Jle6N0&t=32s

Andrzej, would you recommend a TSX, TTSX, or LRX?

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

Out of curiosity, how many times does everyone feel people blame the bullet for poor shots or unfortunately simply don’t find the animal due to whatever reasons.

Probably more than they would admit.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

Out of curiosity, how many times does everyone feel people blame the bullet for poor shots or unfortunately simply don’t find the animal due to whatever reasons.

I’ve only heard one guy in our huge group of fellow hunters blame the bullet. He was shooting a Barnes mono. He showed me the bullet, which didn’t expand. He said look at this pos. I said did it kill? And he walked away.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by Tronneroi

Andrzej, would you recommend a TSX, TTSX, or LRX?

I have personal experience with Barnes X I would not recommend this one.
I am using TTSX in all cartridges I am using for hunting in 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag.
I would recommend TTSX based on my experience, but like this person, in the link, I've posted, recommends LRX I will try 175 gr .308 in my new Sako S20 300 Win Mag this spring.
I don't think I will get a better 5 shot group as I've got with 180 gr TTSX .626 inch at 100 y with my Sako Finnlight 75 in 300 Win Mag.

[Tronneroi]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

I have personal experience with Barnes X I would not recommend this one.
I am using TTSX in all cartridges I am using for hunting in 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag.
I would recommend TTSX based on my experience, but like this person, in the link, I've posted, recommends LRX I will try 175 gr .308 in my new Sako S20 300 Win Mag this spring.
I don't think I will get a better 5 shot group as I've got with 180 gr TTSX .626 inch at 100 y with my Sako Finnlight 75 in 300 Win Mag.

Thanks for the info. I think I'll have to grab a box of TTSX and try them out.

[kingrat]

The lrx will open easier with less velocity than the ttsx. I love them outta my 300wsm always a perfect x. My sons 270wsm loaded hot will almost always sheer the petals off on anything under 100 yards with the lrx.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

Out of curiosity, how many times does everyone feel people blame the bullet for poor shots or unfortunately simply don’t find the animal due to whatever reasons.

I can't speak for everyone, only for myself.

Over the first forty years of my life I was only aware of one animal that was wounded and not recovered. And very few that weren't clean kills.

After thinking on it some I can't help but wonder if this was more attributable to the realities of ammo supply and folks disposable income at the time.

I shall explain. Back then most of the people in the district were poor in comparison to hunters of today. Dirt poor in fact.

Ammo was expensive, relative to other necessities and supply was limited.
For most the only source was the local hardware store.

Hand-loading was something we only read about in Outdoor Life.

As a result most leaned to take their time and make each shot count.

I was taught to pass on long shots, and any shot that did not offer a clear window to the kill zone, (heart, lungs, and major blood vessels) as well as any shot that might hit major bone.

This was doable because game numbers for our target species were much higher then today and hunting pressure was a fraction of what it is today.

Plus no one I knew back then cared about trophies.

So for the hunter in that era cup and core were sufficient.

For today's hunter much has changed. Trophies now seem to be the primary reason for hunting for many.
Seasons are much shorter, opportunities much less for most. And better bullets and cartridges are readily available for those who can afford such.

Growing up we seldom had to look beyond our property line for our meat supply. Today many hunters have to travel great distances to find hunting opportunities.

It all combines to make premium bullets a wise choice for many. But not a necessity.

People still harvest game with stick and string.
If they can do it so can cup and core hunters. It just takes discipline and a willingness to pass on shots that are not suited to cup and core bullets.

You may have to eat tag soup for a few years, but it's doable.

[58thecat]

I think at the end of the day we have better bullet choices to make then we did 10-20-30-40-50 years ago and many shooters choose accordingly....we used just take whatever off the shelve and went out not really taking into consideration the bullet construction etc....why...because that's all we had.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I think at the end of the day we have better bullet choices to make then we did 10-20-30-40-50 years ago and many shooters choose accordingly....we used just take whatever off the shelve and went out not really taking into consideration the bullet construction etc....why...because that's all we had.

Agreed.

For some today that has not changed. Folks living in Garden River or Chateh don't have the selection available to them that hunters further south do, and distance makes acquiring ammo from the south impractical.

Even Hay River has few options for local hunters, but they do have much better access to online sources then many smaller communities.
A lot of those communities do not have internet access.

Down here we take for granted that everyone had equal access to products.
It's simply not so for many in the north.

Stores local to me have limited offerings and are often out of sock, but we do have Grande Prairie.

For me a trip to Grande Prairie takes only three and a half hours, for people in Providence it would take upwards of two days to drive to Grande Prairie.

For them the closest ammo outlet is in Hay River three hours away, and there they have one outlet.
A home hardware that stocks a very limited supply of ammo and no reloading components what-so-ever.