Important Poll: Hunting Draws in Alberta

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Any time a post starts with 'Dude' you can almost bet the condescension is gonna flow.

And it did. I can only suggest you take a break from the keyboard for a while, it's family day. I already had to delete your pizzing contest with Leo, but you seem determined to keep engaging in more.

Give it rest.

I start flying in a couple hours
Long day ahead
24 hours from now I should be back home

[elkhunter11]

We have people suggesting that $20 per application is nothing, well if it is nothing, how will increasing the application fee to $20, make any real difference? If everyone can easily afford to pay that $20 per application, it won't change anything.

As I posted previously, I would support making a smaller percentage of the tags like turkey and 437 sheep, lottery tags, so everyone does have some chance to draw. That will give everyone some hope, while still providing most tags to the high priority holders.

And if you want to deter people from drawing tags, and not putchasing them, suspend anyone that doesn't purchase their draw tag from the draws for one year, and require them to pay the value of the tag , before they can apply again.

[DirtShooter]

This thread is hilarious now. As usual one apex predator wants to raise the costs because he lives in a basement and has nobody in his life who depends on him.

We get it, you got lots of cash. Many of us do as well the difference is we have families and spend money and time on them.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Dude I’m not thinking of myself here
Would your kids ever have a chance to do a 410 sheep hunt the way the draws are now?
This topic is hunting draws
If we want to talk about home ownership and things like that I’m game for that too
Everyone talks about people who have a hard time getting by
I can’t find guys to work starting at $25/hr for a labourer
Zero experience, zero training
People don’t want to work
And the ones do reply, have a problem with working on weekends or evenings
Cuts into their personal time too much, affects their work life balance

You’ve obviously never owned your own business or had to worry about money
I’ve been the guy who has had to pull every nickel out of my lines of credit, credit cards, heloc etc to pay my employees, pay for the loans on my equipment, etc
Once, my main client decided not to pay me for a couple years.
Another, the company I was working for had their contract terminated
You don’t know how many times the only thing I’ve had in my house is ramen noodles or kd
I’m am in no shape or form an eliteist

So I’m speaking as someone who has been as broke as a joke
Saying $20/draw isn’t unreasonable

Your financial situation in the past really isn't what is relevant here, what is relevant, is your current financial situation, the one that you are enjoying as you post today. If you are flying around the world hunting, on a regular basis, then you definitely are not in the same financial situation as many other Alberta resident hunters, so $20 or $200 to you, is not the same as it is to them. So don't try and appear to be equal to the people on a very limited income, just because you may have been in a similar situation at some point in your past.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Your financial situation in the past really isn't what is relevant here, what is relevant, is your current financial situation, the one that you are enjoying as you post today. If you are flying around the world hunting, on a regular basis, then you definitely are not in the same financial situation as many other Alberta resident hunters, so $20 or $200 to you, is not the same as it is to them. So don't try and appear to be equal to the people on a very limited income, just because you may have been in a similar situation at some point in your past.

Your like talking to a wall

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

This thread is hilarious now. As usual one apex predator wants to raise the costs because he lives in a basement and has nobody in his life who depends on him.

We get it, you got lots of cash. Many of us do as well the difference is we have families and spend money and time on them.

Yep
The guy that was just saying he had 500k in his pension last week is now cash strapped to pay for draws

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Yes $20 is no biggie but it never stops there does it . Plus the suggestion was $20 per draw app. And if it is no biggie it should have zero effect on the number of draw apps so therefore will do nothing but give more money to the government to waste as it sees fit.

Maybe the more sensible solution is one draw app per family unit and once you win your draw you cannot enter again for that species for 10 years. As well perhaps you should have to hold a hunting licence in Alberta for a min 5 years before you participate in the draw system .

This would open things up considerably

I think you're on the right track. The times of treating our Wildlife as a potential grocery basket are long gone. The idea of limiting draws to one or two per year is certainy a viable option as is the wait time to participate in the draw system. Something has to be done to take the pressure off our Wildlife resources. Long Story short .. fewer hunters in the game per year, better resource management and better predator management.

[270person]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Maybe the more sensible solution is one draw app per family unit and once you win your draw you cannot enter again for that species for 10 years. As well perhaps you should have to hold a hunting licence in Alberta for a min 5 years before you participate in the draw system .

This would open things up considerably

I've got no issues with most of this but waiting 10 years after a successful draw is pretty harsh. Makes a priority 10 muley or moose a 20 year wait and takes my $4 per year for 10 years out of the coffers.

Agree with the residence requirements and I'd make non-resident hunting a lot tougher for some species as well. If we cant go there...they shouldn't be coming here.

The province using monies generated via licensing for other areas of government is just pathetic but that's why it's called government vs private business. Most of them couldn't organize a sock drawer if the chips were down.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I think you're on the right track. The times of treating our Wildlife as a potential grocery basket are long gone. The idea of limiting draws to one or two per year is certainy a viable option as is the wait time to participate in the draw system. Something has to be done to take the pressure off our Wildlife resources. Long Story short .. fewer hunters in the game per year, better resource management and better predator management.

The problem is, that more and more people are applying for the draws, and the game populations are not increasing to meet the increased demand. If we could increase habitat, we could increase the game populations, but how do we do that at this point? It is unfortunate, but whether it's fish, big game or upland game birds, there is no real way to turn back the clock, and get back to the old days, where very few species were draw only, and the waiting lists for the draws that existed were short. We can't do catch and release . like we can for fishing, so it's down to trying to manage the harvest among more and more hunters.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem is, that more and more people are applying for the draws, and the game populations are not increasing to meet the increased demand. If we could increase habitat, we could increase the game populations, but how do we do that at this point? It is unfortunate, but whether it's fish, big game or upland game birds, there is no real way to turn back the clock, and get back to the old days, where very few species were draw only, and the waiting lists for the draws that existed were short. We can't do catch and release . like we can for fishing, so it's down to trying to manage the harvest among more and more hunters.

Habitat improvement has been successfully done to improve game populations but it costs $

Look south and you will find enchantment projects along with incentives for landowners

Can’t turn back the clock but the future could be improved

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem is, that more and more people are applying for the draws,

and the game populations are not increasing to meet the increased demand. If we could increase habitat, we could increase the game populations, but how do we do that at this point? It is unfortunate, but whether it's fish, big game or upland game birds, there is no real way to turn back the clock, and get back to the old days, where very few species were draw only, and the waiting lists for the draws that existed were short. We can't do catch and release . like we can for fishing, so it's down to trying to manage the harvest among more and more hunters.

As I said, the data needs to be included in this discussion or false narratives are going to waste a lot of time or even worse, lead to bad decisions.

That's not true over the last 5 years, perhaps even longer.

Individual Tag sales are static, so are draw applications.
Licenced hunter numbers jumped significantly in 2020, which I suspect is mostly due to Wildlife Certificate purchase requirements, not new hunter recruitment.

https://mywildalberta.ca/buy-licence...tatistics.aspx

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem is, that more and more people are applying for the draws, and the game populations are not increasing to meet the increased demand. If we could increase habitat, we could increase the game populations, but how do we do that at this point? It is unfortunate, but whether it's fish, big game or upland game birds, there is no real way to turn back the clock, and get back to the old days, where very few species were draw only, and the waiting lists for the draws that existed were short. We can't do catch and release . like we can for fishing, so it's down to trying to manage the harvest among more and more hunters.

There is an issue with "turning back the clock"on Albertas Fishing And Hunting Resources for sure. But reality says we have to.There is no way we can keep blundering forward, taking as much Game as we possibly can, recruiting as many as possible to the Sport, and expect the resources we have remaining to sustain themselves.
Depending on some kind of dumb luck to correct this trajectory isn't in the stars. We, as genuine Outdoorsmen have to back off it we want to see any future in these activities.

In the "Old Days" there was no such thing as a draw for any BG in Alberta.
All tags were over the counter. This Draw thing is relatively new and didn't begin until the current situation was in it's infancy.

[2 Tollers]

Reading all of this I can see the need for change to provide opportunities in the few hard to get draws both for new hunters and also people that have been putting in for years and are still years away from being drawn.
Background for my comments -- I am not a trophy hunter, my kids have grown and moved on – choosing not to participate in hunting even though they were introduced early. Cost and time with their families being factors. My enjoyment comes from being in the outdoors and any success is shared out with family and friends. I am also a big supporter of residents first and partner tags.

I like the current priority system as it allows me to plan years ahead for draws and using it the way I do I can select a certain hunt per year as I deliberately plan not to draw moose, elk and camp wainwright deer the same year. I treat each as a dedicated hunt for a particular year.

I am not in favour of increasing draw costs or billing successful draws when drawn in advance of the season. While I can easily afford these each little cost that is added is another piece that can drive people away. Also, with the split up of F&W where will the extra money go? Certainly not to F&W habitat improvements. Increasing these costs is trying to limit the number of people that apply. Why do this when we are trying to support bringing people into the sport.

However, I do think there are some easy changes that could be had within the existing system.

First – Have a close date on when tags must be purchased by. If the drawn tag is not purchased one week prior to the opening the person’s draw is cancelled and that tag is then put up in the supplementary allocations for purchase. This would also allow for those people that something has come up that they cannot go hunting that fall to have their tag go back into the system and be used. Twice in my time hunting I have had season ending injuries that occurred after I was drawn for hunts. Both times in contacting F&W my tags could not go back into the system to be used by others.

Second – I believe this is in place in certain US states – a select number of tags for those draws that are greatly oversubscribed with high priority points are held for a lottery draw. The lottery could be open, separate purchase, under a certain age – reserved for new hunters --- many different ideas to get opportunities for an antelope or a turkey other than a lifetime wait.

Third – Some hunts need to be adjusted based on frequency of being drawn. Drawn for a species or certain zone means waiting 2 or 3 threes before being able to put in for that species or zone again. Some need to be once in a lifetime. When the bison draw was on there were a few folks that were lucky enough to be drawn in back-to-back years.

I do agree with statements made that being successful on some of the draws takes time and patience. Patience can be hard to come by when you are new and sitting at the bottom of what looks like a cliff face.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

270person is not a kid, he is a senior. You may have him mixed up with 270hunter, who is 15 and apparently 6' 3" tall.

I have to always look at those user names, so I know who is posting. Although frankly, their manner of posting and communicating is very opposite, I can usually tell by content and whether the post is respectful, or snarky.

You're only senior if you act your age. Puts me right around 14. Plus I'm a full inch shorter than the kid. Shame he's snarky though because he has good taste when it comes to cartridges.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

That is a horrible thing to say. You know nothing of this kid’s circumstances.

Thanks Chuck. We're BFF's now man.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem is, that more and more people are applying for the draws, and the game populations are not increasing to meet the increased demand. If we could increase habitat, we could increase the game populations, but how do we do that at this point? It is unfortunate, but whether it's fish, big game or upland game birds, there is no real way to turn back the clock, and get back to the old days, where very few species were draw only, and the waiting lists for the draws that existed were short. We can't do catch and release . like we can for fishing, so it's down to trying to manage the harvest among more and more hunters.

To start helping with game populations the government could grab a pair and get rid of status hunting. It sad when you see trucks driving around with 2 or 3 heads in them and you drive down the road and see an animal laying there with no head on it.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

To start helping with game populations the government could grab a pair and get rid of status hunting. It sad when you see trucks driving around with 2 or 3 heads in them and you drive down the road and see an animal laying there with no head on it.

Give up on the dream of changing treaty rights it’s a waste of effort

Reality the country is clearly heading into an era of increasing FN privileges and rights not taking them away

You and I will loose out hunting rights before FN do. Complete waste of effort and resources trying to stop status hunting in Canada it’s not happening. Hunters need to focus on what they can actually improve

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

As I said, the data needs to be included in this discussion or false narratives are going to waste a lot of time or even worse, lead to bad decisions.

That's not true over the last 5 years, perhaps even longer.

Individual Tag sales are static, so are draw applications.
Licenced hunter numbers jumped significantly in 2020, which I suspect is mostly due to Wildlife Certificate purchase requirements, not new hunter recruitment.

https://mywildalberta.ca/buy-licence...tatistics.aspx

We're missing data that we'll never get though.
I hate to be the guy that brings it up, but non-licenced numbers are a huge wild card. As is predation.
Without any meaningful numbers, nothing can be managed properly. (Edit: Looks like someone else did bring it up. lol)

In my mule deer zone I see more deer than ever. And yet my wait time for the draw is double what it was 5 years ago, with a nearly static number of applicants over that time. Why is that?

One of the zones I hunt moose in is now a 7 year wait.
I hardly see any natives there anymore, but grizzlies are everywhere and habitat loss is rampant. And yet, no grizzly draw, and no sign of exploration slowing down.

This is why more money won't fix anything. The only thing it will do is eliminate some from continuing on.

Our government is more concerned with keeping the media happy and billions flowing in from O&G and Forestry. You couldn't charge enough for a license to compete with those. Even $500/tag wouldn't equate to a blip on the radar.
Far more people are coming into this province looking for job opportunities, rather than hunting opportunities.

We'd better figure out how to cope with less, because it will never get better. Ever.
Sadly, we're stuck in a catch 22. We need more hunters to create a larger voice, but more people equals less opportunity.

This is why constructive suggestions like the OP are beneficial, it forces us to look forward instead of backwards.

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

We're missing data that we'll never get though.
I hate to be the guy that brings it up, but non-licenced numbers are a huge wild card. As is predation.
Without any meaningful numbers, nothing can be managed properly. (Edit: Looks like someone else did bring it up. lol)

In my mule deer zone I see more deer than ever. And yet my wait time for the draw is double what it was 5 years ago, with a nearly static number of applicants over that time. Why is that?

One of the zones I hunt moose in is now a 7 year wait.
I hardly see any natives there anymore, but grizzlies are everywhere and habitat loss is rampant. And yet, no grizzly draw, and no sign of exploration slowing down.

This is why more money won't fix anything. The only thing it will do is eliminate some from continuing on.

Our government is more concerned with keeping the media happy and billions flowing in from O&G and Forestry. You couldn't charge enough for a license to compete with those. Even $500/tag wouldn't equate to a blip on the radar.
Far more people are coming into this province looking for job opportunities, rather than hunting opportunities.

We'd better figure out how to cope with less, because it will never get better. Ever.
Sadly, we're stuck in a catch 22. We need more hunters to create a larger voice, but more people equals less opportunity.

This is why constructive suggestions like the OP are beneficial, it forces us to look forward instead of backwards.

Actually, I am glad you brought it up (and the other one, which I obviously missed), as many seem to forget about that, or afraid to bring it up.

And that is all I'm gonna say about that.

Thanx CB...

[270hunter]

Originally Posted by 270person

You're only senior if you act your age. Puts me right around 14. Plus I'm a full inch shorter than the kid. Shame he's snarky though because he has good taste when it comes to cartridges.

Hahaha I see what you did there

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Nothing wrong with realistic increases in draw applications cost but only if it is directed towards F&W not general revenue

The fact of the matter is a small increase would not affect hunters applying for draws. If someone is truly hunting to save on meat they likely are applying for limited draws right near home to be coast effective. They are not traveling or looking for trophy animals, they are definitely not spending days road hunting at these fuel prices either. Really hunting for meat is only cost effective close to home with a fast success rate

Meat may be a lot of hunters harvest goal but truly most hunt for the experiences we have, tradition, to spend time with friends/family or as a personal challenge. Most won’t be save much if anything on meat costs once they honestly break down expenses

Let’s really be honest why we hunt because the truth is meat or antlers or horns, or skulls they are nothing but a by product of a successful hunt.

Really you could make it 50$ a draw and there will still be demand because hunters are going to invest in a chance to hunt. They may prioritize what the apply for and definitely cry about it but they will apply

But an increase is only worth while if it will be used to benefit wildlife

The chances of the revenue obtained from Hunting or Fishing of becoming anything but an obscure little item on the Prov Govt's income budget is pretty small. On the expense side, it is much more obvious. Thats why they are continuously decreasing the monetary committments,changing Dept overseers, and stretching the duties and job requirements of some of the most important aspects in what is now a watered down version of the old F&W Dept. ..namely enhancement and enforcement. To expect any change soon is only a pipedream as I see it. The onus appears to be on us to do something about it and that seems kinda futile from this view as Hunters, Anglers and Outdoors people don't play a real role in the grand scheme of things today. Fight or Flight seem to be the only options available at the moment.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Salavee

The chances of the revenue obtained from Hunting or Fishing of becoming anything but an obscure little item on the Prov Govt's income budget is pretty small. On the expense side, it is much more obvious. Thats why they are continuously decreasing the monetary committments,changing Dept overseers, and stretching the duties and job requirements of some of the most important aspects in what is now a watered down version of the old F&W Dept. ..namely enhancement and enforcement. To expect any change soon is only a pipedream as I see it. The onus appears to be on us to do something about it and that seems kinda futile from this view as Hunters, Anglers and Outdoors people don't play a real role in the grand scheme of things today. Fight or Flight seem to be the only options available at the moment.

Seems most would rather play dead or let it buck till their is nothing left

I agree there will not be any change in the near future but without out making a push and fighting for change nothing will improve ever. I would expect years and a heck of a lot of work to get results. The biggest thing is there will never be results without support and unity within the hunting community

That last bit seems to be what will stop any progress for the hunting community

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

We're missing data that we'll never get though.
I hate to be the guy that brings it up, but non-licenced numbers are a huge wild card. As is predation.
Without any meaningful numbers, nothing can be managed properly. (Edit: Looks like someone else did bring it up. lol)

In my mule deer zone I see more deer than ever. And yet my wait time for the draw is double what it was 5 years ago, with a nearly static number of applicants over that time. Why is that?

One of the zones I hunt moose in is now a 7 year wait.
I hardly see any natives there anymore, but grizzlies are everywhere and habitat loss is rampant. And yet, no grizzly draw, and no sign of exploration slowing down.

This is why more money won't fix anything. The only thing it will do is eliminate some from continuing on.

Our government is more concerned with keeping the media happy and billions flowing in from O&G and Forestry. You couldn't charge enough for a license to compete with those. Even $500/tag wouldn't equate to a blip on the radar.
Far more people are coming into this province looking for job opportunities, rather than hunting opportunities.

We'd better figure out how to cope with less, because it will never get better. Ever.
Sadly, we're stuck in a catch 22. We need more hunters to create a larger voice, but more people equals less opportunity.

This is why constructive suggestions like the OP are beneficial, it forces us to look forward instead of backwards.

Absolutely.

This exemplifies why comments such as "hunting is a hobby" are so damaging.

I spoke loudly about this years ago and hardly caught an ear.
I think most people didn't want to understand understand why I was saying so.

I still believe that a much more effective direction for licenced hunters is to demand that we are no longer legislated as "recreational" hunters.
We are ALL subsistence hunters,
even those that "don't need the meat" or those that pass up some animals, choosing to kill others.
Licenced hunters would have a much stronger position with future allocations and the requirement to have sufficient wildlife If we were not legislated and "recreational".

Just look at how the recent firearm amendments went when Canada as a whole understood the implication to hunters in general.
There was great sympathy from the non-hunting community.
The Canadian society wtill supports hunting, hunting for sport or trophies, not so much.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Absolutely.

This exemplifies why comments such as "hunting is a hobby" are so damaging.

I spoke loudly about this years ago and hardly caught an ear.
I think most people didn't want to understand understand why I was saying so.

I still believe that a much more effective direction for licenced hunters is to demand that we are no longer legislated as "recreational" hunters.
We are ALL subsistence hunters,
even those that "don't need the meat" or those that pass up some animals, choosing to kill others.
Licenced hunters would have a much stronger position with future allocations and the requirement to have sufficient wildlife If we were not legislated and "recreational".

Just look at how the recent firearm amendments went when Canada as a whole understood the implication to hunters in general.
There was great sympathy from the non-hunting community.
The Canadian society wtill supports hunting, hunting for sport or trophies, not so much.

Ask the BCFW how well playing the meat hunter card with the media and government went during their allocation dispute with GO in the past

Not a great card to play

Now start looking at the long historical hunting culture and tradition along with the fact it runs in deep throughout almost every ethnic background this is a wiser card in my opinion. This goes much farther than a package of steak

It’s not just FN that have a strong traditional background involving hunting and this is what the non hunting public/government needs to be reminded of

My family doesn’t go to a grave yard our ashes are brought to our favorite hunting spot where we go to rest in peace in the place we enjoyed memories of. I will be heading back to northern BC when the snow melts to hike my grandfather’s ashes into his favorite moose slough with the rest of the hunters in my family. This is just one of many traditions

Hunting means a lot more than a meal and to portray it as such has devalued what hunting is truly about

I am completely sick of the meat hunter defense

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Absolutely.

This exemplifies why comments such as "hunting is a hobby" are so damaging.

I spoke loudly about this years ago and hardly caught an ear.
I think most people didn't want to understand understand why I was saying so.

I still believe that a much more effective direction for licenced hunters is to demand that we are no longer legislated as "recreational" hunters.
We are ALL subsistence hunters,
even those that "don't need the meat" or those that pass up some animals, choosing to kill others.
Licenced hunters would have a much stronger position with future allocations and the requirement to have sufficient wildlife If we were not legislated and "recreational".

Just look at how the recent firearm amendments went when Canada as a whole understood the implication to hunters in general.
There was great sympathy from the non-hunting community.
The Canadian society wtill supports hunting, hunting for sport or trophies, not so much.

Very, very well said.
I sincerely hope everyone reads this post thoroughly.
Hunting is a historical way of life for some. One that puts food on the table and fulfills who we are.
It's our identity.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Absolutely.

This exemplifies why comments such as "hunting is a hobby" are so damaging.

I spoke loudly about this years ago and hardly caught an ear.
I think most people didn't want to understand understand why I was saying so.

I still believe that a much more effective direction for licenced hunters is to demand that we are no longer legislated as "recreational" hunters.
We are ALL subsistence hunters,
even those that "don't need the meat" or those that pass up some animals, choosing to kill others.
Licenced hunters would have a much stronger position with future allocations and the requirement to have sufficient wildlife If we were not legislated and "recreational".

Just look at how the recent firearm amendments went when Canada as a whole understood the implication to hunters in general.
There was great sympathy from the non-hunting community.
The Canadian society wtill supports hunting, hunting for sport or trophies, not so much.

WB

As always, I appreciate your posts, but I'm a bit unstuck on a couple of comments. Subsistance Hunters we are not! While we may hunt with with the hopes of obtaining some meat,or "filling our freezer" most of us are really only hunting because we enjoy the challenge and get an opprtunity to re- connect with our natural surroundings. Food is not the ultimate goal, just a
bonus. I think most others would see us for what we really are. Feining Subsistance Hunting would not be right.

As to Canadians getting on-side with us regarding the Firearms ammendments, I think it had more to do with the observed Gov't. overreach than anything else. It scared a lot of people.
It would be nice if, in reality, they supported hunters with the same vigor.
I dont think we would want to see a vote to ban hunting in Canada at this stage of Social Correctness and the rest of the stuff that goes with it .Just my thoughts.

[Smoky buck]

So for those who like to think the meat hunter card will defend you

During the allocation dispute in BC residents lost on a number of species because they were not viewed as true meat hunts sheep for example

When BC first lost the grizzly hunt it was originally changed to a meat only hunt no hide or skull or claws allowed. It never even made it to the first draw

People are not dumb and realize that hunting is not all about meat with a lot of species. What they really care about is the meat is utilized and not wasted

The meat hunter debate also is the cause of a big divide in the hunting community weakening unity

Let’s cut the crap and be honest it’s not about meat it’s the hunt

We don’t come on a forum talking about trips to the grocery store

We don’t post pics of our new reusable bags or the cart at the store

We don’t wait years to have a chance to go to a select grocery store

We don’t scout out the produce isle for months prior to shopping

We don’t invest in special clothing to get groceries

We don’t invest in gear for it either

It is the HUNT that we invest all our time, effort, and $ into the meat is just a product we get when successful

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

So for those who like to think the meat hunter card will defend you

During the allocation dispute in BC residents lost on a number of species because they were not viewed as true meat hunts sheep for example

When BC first lost the grizzly hunt it was originally changed to a meat only hunt no hide or skull or claws allowed. It never even made it to the first draw

People are not dumb and realize that hunting is not all about meat with a lot of species. What they really care about is the meat is utilized and not wasted

The meat hunter debate also is the cause of a big divide in the hunting community weakening unity

Let’s cut the crap and be honest it’s not about meat it’s the hunt

We don’t come on a forum talking about trips to the grocery store

We don’t post pics of our new reusable bags or the cart at the store

We don’t wait years to have a chance to go to a select grocery store

We don’t scout out the produce isle for months prior to shopping

We don’t invest in special clothing to get groceries

We don’t invest in gear for it either

It is the HUNT that we invest all our time, effort, and $ into the meat is just a product we get when successful

A new legal designation of licenced Alberta "Subsistence" hunter would be defined much broader than just meat hunting.
If there is a better descriptive than subsistence, lets use that word instead.

The point is to get away from the legal label and definition of "Recreational" hunting, as this offers no protection under the law to keeping this lifestyle alive.

You are basically making the argument for a new definition of a licenced hunter.
I think you are just hung up on the concept of meat hunting, which is not what I suggested.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

A new legal designation of licenced Alberta "Subsistence" hunter would be defined much broader than just meat hunting.
If there is a better descriptive than subsistence, lets use that word instead.

The point is to get away from the legal label and definition of "Recreational" hunting, as this offers no protection under the law to keeping this lifestyle alive.

You are basically making the argument for a new definition of a licenced hunter.
I think you are just hung up on the concept of meat hunting, which is not what I suggested.

Meat hunter is how Subsistence will be viewed by the general public. Presently don’t have an alternative term but definitely believe the focus should be on the hunting culture and traditions not harvest related

Getting away from the term recreational I can agree with

I can’t deny I am beyond annoyed with the whole meat hunter PC label that many hunters were taught to adopt and the term Subsistence hunter just sounded like a relabeling of the same direction to me

[Outcast]

This thread is embarrassing at best. Selfish skewed views of reality. You are still able to buy over the counter elk and whitetail tags every year in this province among others. There are more elk now than when I started hunting 30 plus years ago, by far. I’m fortunate to be able to harvest a bull almost every year over the last 20 plus years. No they are not shot off a haystack from behind the barn. Public land only. There are many other over the counter tags available, lots of doe tags, if you truly need to feed you and your family. That is only economical if it’s close to home which removes 90% of the hunting population out there I would bet.

If you’re worried about things changing and costing a bit extra for conservation and increased opportunity don’t buy that stupid trail camera or whatever new gadget you think you need to put a roast on the table.
If there was an increase it does need to go back to conservation.
We need better management.
We need better predator management.
We need to provide opportunity to our youth. That’s the future.
We need a draw system that helps with opportunity to keep this sport alive. The only way it stays alive is if the division is minimal. The draw is a part of it but definitely not all of it.

I can think of many other ways to feed my family other than hunting if it is purely looked at as a meal.

I’m not saying draws need to increase in price but how could they not? Everything else has. All I’m saying is if we stay on this rutted path we’ll be stuck in it for a long time. If you’re happy with Antelope being unobtanium for our youth or trophy elk draws being basically useless because the zones have been shot up or chased out by predators, keep arguing. Nothing will change.