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04-09-2010, 03:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowhuntAB
Not in the 212 Rob! Why do you think 80% of the area out here is posted NO HUNTING. Do you think numbers will fix this?
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you are dodging my question bowhunt, but with every post it is more and more clear what your motives are. me, me, me, protect whats mine and everyone else can scram.
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04-09-2010, 03:38 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,805
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[QUOTE=BowhuntAB;558504]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota369
I take it you have done really well with your bow! I'm sure its laying out in the garage covered in dust because you couldnt shoot it well. Is that right?
They take some practice don't they?
(my ingorance is causing me to make assumptions again).
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Yes...... yes it is.
Obviously you are also ignorant about how to use spell check..........
It is actually in my house in a place of honor as it was a piece that was given to me with a number of handmade arrows from a favorite Uncle of mine who passed suddenly many years ago. I did actually at one point and time put time and energy into practicing with it but due to it's age decided that it deserved to be retired while still in good shape. Plus I felt that I would have a higher success rate and less injured animals with a high powered rifle, because as you and I both know they are truly a better tool to use to harvest game.
__________________
Don't ever utter the words "idiot proof" in regard to anything, as upon your reflection........the world will immediately get going on building a better idiot thereby making your proclamation mute
Last edited by Dakota369; 04-09-2010 at 04:06 PM.
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04-09-2010, 03:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Foothills
Posts: 571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
you are dodging my question bowhunt, but with every post it is more and more clear what your motives are. me, me, me, protect whats mine and everyone else can scram.
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No to be honest with you i stopped reading your posts hours ago.
Seriously....sorry man.
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04-09-2010, 03:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Foothills
Posts: 571
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[QUOTE=Dakota369;558521]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowhuntAB
Yes...... yes it is.
Obviously you are also ignorant about how to use spell check..........
It is actually in my house in a place of honor as it was a piece that was given to me with a number of handmade arrow from a favorite Uncle of mine who passed suddenly many years ago. I did actually at one point and time put time and energy into practicing with it but due to it's age decided that it deserved to be retired while still in good shape. Plus I felt that I would have a higher success rate and less injured animals with a high powered rifle, because as you and I both know they are truly a better tool to use to harvest game.
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Yeah, and they shoot really far too.
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04-09-2010, 03:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowhuntAB
No to be honest with you i stopped reading your posts hours ago.
Seriously....sorry man.
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LOLOLOL no you didnt, you just proved that. you just stopped responding to posts that make you look selfish and greedy. we can all see it.
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04-09-2010, 03:43 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowhuntAB
Not in the 212 Rob! Why do you think 80% of the area out here is posted NO HUNTING. Do you think numbers will fix this?
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And not allowing crossbows in the archery season will?
FYI
Hunting, leisure and science
Crossbows are used for target shooting and bow hunting in modern archery and for blubber biopsy samples in scientific research.
With a crossbow, archers could release a draw force far in excess of what they could have handled with a bow. Moreover, crossbows could be kept cocked and ready to shoot for some time with little effort, allowing crossbowmen to aim better. The disadvantage is the greater weight and clumsiness compared to a bow, as well as the slower rate of fire and the lower efficiency of the acceleration system, but there would be reduced elastic hysteresis, making the crossbow a more accurate weapon
Maybe you just don't want the competition?
__________________
Don't ever utter the words "idiot proof" in regard to anything, as upon your reflection........the world will immediately get going on building a better idiot thereby making your proclamation mute
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04-09-2010, 03:44 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,290
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I just don't like the way that that things are heading. Is it the hunters of Alberta pushing for crossbow and muzzleloader seasons or is it the industry? I know that when it come's to total hunter numbers that alberta is a drop in the bucket in comparison to other areas in north america so selling crossbows and muzzleloaders will help only the local industry. I do not buy the " It will get the more hunters in the field so that there is more hunters to fight the good fight against the anti's" slogan that I have heard. I just think that we need to look at the whole picture and the hunting quality before we jump into the system that so many states have gotten themselves into. I work with landowners on a daily basis and I here the fustrations with the extended season for deer and elk in the eastern part of the province. Most of them don't mind hunting they don't like hunters on there land for five months of the year. I saw paved truck trails in every section of land in some of these areas. The story that a few bad apples wreck it for everybody is becoming more that just a few. If these new seasons materilize maybe they should be for specific areas. I guess I just don't like the commercialization of huntin. More commericialized hunting becomes the more money in some people's pockets I guess.
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04-09-2010, 03:45 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
LOLOLOL no you didnt, you just proved that. you just stopped responding to posts that make you look selfish and greedy. we can all see it.
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So true.....................
__________________
Don't ever utter the words "idiot proof" in regard to anything, as upon your reflection........the world will immediately get going on building a better idiot thereby making your proclamation mute
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04-09-2010, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,805
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[QUOTE=BowhuntAB;558524]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota369
Yeah, and they shoot really far too.
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That's one of the things that makes them better................. and???????
__________________
Don't ever utter the words "idiot proof" in regard to anything, as upon your reflection........the world will immediately get going on building a better idiot thereby making your proclamation mute
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04-09-2010, 03:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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now down to just argueing about 212 lol, this is getting hilarious, glad i haven't checked up on page 7's posts, go ahead and keep ignoring the logic
why crossbow interest now? because there is a movement in education on a very unknown and misunderstood tool....now that the education is getting out there its being recognized for what it is....a bow....9 states last year was it?....fantastic progress and clearly people are starting to learn about the tool
there's too many gun hunters in 312 roading like mad....got a solution for this like apparently have for 212's problems?
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04-09-2010, 04:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman1978
I just don't like the way that that things are heading. Is it the hunters of Alberta pushing for crossbow and muzzleloader seasons or is it the industry?
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logic driven.....everything else is just recognized opportunity but the logic comes first, people aren't that stupid, the tool is a bow
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04-09-2010, 04:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Up north
Posts: 289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
there's too many gun hunters in 312 roading like mad....got a solution for this like apparently have for 212's problems?
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I got a solution that will almost completly solve 312s problems and alleviate a huge amount of pressure off 212 at the same time!
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Are ya ready for this?
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...Its puuuure genius.
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Make 312 an archery only zone. ***poof*** road hunting almost entirley GONE in 312
***poof*** waaaaaaay less pressure on 212!
Damn I'm good lol.
All joking aside, I've always felt 312 deserves to be a bowzone. So close to Calgary, if they eliminate gun hunting in there it would take a lot of pressure off 212, and these guys are right, 212 is CRAZY with people trying to get permission. I've had guys offer me money to get them access on some of the stuff I had. The landowner actually put up a 4x8 plywood sign that said "No I won't let you bowhunt. Not even if you ask nicely. No Hunting. Have a nice day" and he STILL got approached by at least a dozen guys/year!!!
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04-09-2010, 04:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowhuntAB
Not in the 212 Rob! Why do you think 80% of the area out here is posted NO HUNTING. Do you think numbers will fix this?
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And once again we hit the greedy end of the argument..
When will you guys learn??????
The above argument is a embarrassment to our sport.
If you wanted to push for more WMUS strictly limited to Bow Hunting or Muzzle loading.. Go ahead. But in order to make that happen you need more guys in your sport.
I know the starts are around on just how many Bow tags were sold last year in Alberta. Anyone know where I could find them?
Jamie
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04-09-2010, 05:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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herdbull.....i kinda like that idea, why expand the bowzone completely around the city...and into no mans land to the east...... when you can just go west...that would be a forsure requirement for the crossbow inclusion imo as i'd lose the one place that lets me take the odd newbie for their first deer with a rifle...so i'd definitely need the crossbow for doing introductions if that happened!
and i'm sure from a managment perspective they'd want to get the bowhunter numbers up in there bigtime if the guns aren't in there to thin things down...how bout a trade then
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04-09-2010, 05:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 617
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So why is it that crossbows have not bein aloud to be used ever in alberta????? There has to be a reason then all you crossbow guys fill me in on why they have never been aloud in alberta till they put them in with guns.This should be a real easy one for all of you.
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04-09-2010, 06:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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it is real easy, no one knew anything about them and they came with some sort of snakes are evil stigma and that they killed to hundreds of yards with the press of a button......progress is wonderful though and we are now being educated on what they really can do, thats all thats happening.....see.....easy
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04-09-2010, 07:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
it is real easy, no one knew anything about them and they came with some sort of snakes are evil stigma and that they killed to hundreds of yards with the press of a button......progress is wonderful though and we are now being educated on what they really can do, thats all thats happening.....see.....easy
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No the real reason. That is your opinion not fact.Please tell us.
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04-09-2010, 07:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 617
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here is some info I found...
By the definition used (and rightfully so) by the majority of North American wildlife agencies, the crossbow is NOT a bow. In Alberta’s regulations, an “authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power” and an authorized arrow is “one that is not less than 24 inches in length”. The crossbow policy statement of the Pope & Young Club states that a “bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is hand-held and hand-drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw”.
Further, from a paper (Some FACTS About Crossbows) by well respected archery technical writer Norb Mullaney, the following facts point out the significant differences between the “bow” and the crossbow. “Initial kinetic energy for handbows varies with the individual archer. It is a function of draw weight, draw length and efficiency in executing the shot. It is subject to variations that affect the interior ballistics of the arrow. On the other hand, the interior ballistics of a crossbow are fixed” and “the initial kinetic energy is essentially identical for anyone who shoots the crossbow.” “There is no need to draw the bowstring in close proximity to alerted game.” “The handbow is limited in performance by the physical strength of the archer. The crossbow has no limitation ... with the use of the various drawing devices.” “Crossbows are cocked and preloaded, are mechanically held at full draw, most often equipped with rifle scopes, can be shot from a rest and are released by a fixed trigger action.”
Roy Marlow’s tests “demonstrated that neophyte crossbow shooters could place 90% of their shots in a 3 inch circle at 60 yards. He concluded that the effective range of crossbow shooters was 64 yards compared to an effective range of 26 yards for archers using handheld bows.” An article by Mark Hoffman in the May/June issue of the Western Sportsman points out “that it allows the hunter to become quite proficient at putting an arrow in the bull over a much shorter space of practice time than it would with a compound bow.” “The cocking aid was a breeze,” … with the scope and crossbow I would put “one arrow after another in the black regardless of the range” and “reached velocities of 352 fps.” The crossbow tests conducted by Mike Brust of Wisconsin in March 2005 on a Durango crossbow draw similar results and conclusions. In this months premier issue of Peterson’s “Crossbow Hunting” similar accolades abound.
The first paragrph is a def of a bow in alberta. Xbow does not meat the requirements. You cant deny that.
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04-09-2010, 10:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 363
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I have to get in a little on this. Now I didn't read every post in this thread but I am kind of caught in the middle as far as yay or nay for xbows. e.g. I am originally from Ont. where xbows are legal durring the archery season. My father who has used a bow for over 30yrs had developed a catarax(unsure of spelling) in his dominate eye. It wasn't bad enough to operate on and got worse gradually. He learned how to ignore the multi sights he saw and knew which pin was real. He hated xbows,as that also rubbed off on me. I finally could go moose hunting but his eye was bad. So I convinced him to get an xbow. We got to go moose hunting together it was great, he took all the time to practice just like a bow and he used a pin sight instead of scope. He also learned why the xbow was so popular to guys that we considered "lazy". He got his eye fixed and is back to the bow now.
I worked in an archery shop, we sold tonnes of xbows. I have shot, set up and sold a lot. It made me furrious when some city slicker would call the store at 5pm, we closed at 6pm, and say he would be there in a 1/2 hr he wanted a xbow pkg sighted in so he could go hunting in the morn. I did my best to try and tell him he needed to shoot it and practice a bit, nope it will be good enough they would say. The boss only looked at the $, I wasn't the boss!
So, for the fact that we all get older and may someday need to use one is why I am for the season, but I still know there are alot of negatives along with it.
So what to do?
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04-09-2010, 11:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky
Can I bring my crossbow?
If it's already that bad, then there sure must be a lot of bad archery hunters out there.
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Ya there is some of those rob, what's worse is the guys being caught with xbows already, and the odd dumb dumb with a rifle.
__________________
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait ....
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04-09-2010, 11:35 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBull
I got a solution that will almost completly solve 312s problems and alleviate a huge amount of pressure off 212 at the same time!
.
Are ya ready for this?
.
.
.
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...Its puuuure genius.
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.
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Make 312 an archery only zone. ***poof*** road hunting almost entirley GONE in 312
***poof*** waaaaaaay less pressure on 212!
Damn I'm good lol.
All joking aside, I've always felt 312 deserves to be a bowzone. So close to Calgary, if they eliminate gun hunting in there it would take a lot of pressure off 212, and these guys are right, 212 is CRAZY with people trying to get permission. I've had guys offer me money to get them access on some of the stuff I had. The landowner actually put up a 4x8 plywood sign that said "No I won't let you bowhunt. Not even if you ask nicely. No Hunting. Have a nice day" and he STILL got approached by at least a dozen guys/year!!!
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Yup genius, It would help with alot of problems. But nobody wants to even talk about expanding the bowzone..........Land I had permission on 15 years ago, now allows me to watch T.V and sit in my tree stand at the same time. And buddy has a great 60 incher........now only if his wife was hot that would be even better!!!
Soon the reality will be NO more Bowzone, and I will quit hunting when that day arrives.... ( I don't feel safe outside the bowzone, with the hillbillies) People in the archery season don't mistake there buddies as moose!
__________________
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait ....
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04-10-2010, 12:21 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
Yup genius, It would help with alot of problems. But nobody wants to even talk about expanding the bowzone..........Land I had permission on 15 years ago, now allows me to watch T.V and sit in my tree stand at the same time. And buddy has a great 60 incher........now only if his wife was hot that would be even better!!!
Soon the reality will be NO more Bowzone, and I will quit hunting when that day arrives.... ( I don't feel safe outside the bowzone, with the hillbillies) People in the archery season don't mistake there buddies as moose!
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im ok with making a few more zones archery only. there are so many acreages in the calgary to edmonton corridor it could open some things up where landowners now say no to guns.
as for people not mistaking their buddy for a moose....well he was not a buddy, but my hunting partner was shrieking for his life a few years back. full camo head to toe stalking a mule buck he came through a patch of trees to see some fool at full draw pointing a broadhead at him. the screams of "holy f--k dont shoot me you idiot" are clear as heck to me still. i was on the other end of that chunk of bush on the escape route. you hear that kind of terror in a friends voice and itll get your anxiety up quick. there are idiots everywhere potty.....bowhunters too.
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04-10-2010, 06:26 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Coronation
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi
there are idiots everywhere potty.....bowhunters too.
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you're right, 100 yard "ethical" shots anyone? PFFT.
Mind you I have never been shot at by another bowhunter. However, I HAVE been shot at by another gun hunter, November 2008 to be precise. The JERK new I was there too, but he didn't want "his" deer to get away. Funny thing, the reason I was where I was, is because he had "missed" (read wounded) the deer and I was helping. Mere inches from being a statistic. For the internet hero's; you don't have time to shoot back, you should be a bit more worried about self preservation.
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04-10-2010, 07:10 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: southern Alberta
Posts: 302
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I certainly appreciate the work ABA has done for our sport. There is no doubt that this organization is looking out for the best of our concerns. Standardizing the bow season is a good idea.
Xbows, with archery? ok I lean toward letting them have at it. Face it xbows and verticle still hunt the same style. They have to get the critters close. They still have to make the shot. the advantage we have, is that we have the opportunity to take a second shot, they don't. Still the same style of hunting. Still a whole lot of fun!! So give it up and stop being stick in the muds, lets embrace our xbow cousins!!!
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04-10-2010, 07:38 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Coronation
Posts: 2,529
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I've been bowhunting for 30 years, and only ONCE have I ever had the chance to take a 2nd shot. ONCE in 30 YEARS. ONCE.
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04-10-2010, 09:34 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ
I've been bowhunting for 30 years, and only ONCE have I ever had the chance to take a 2nd shot. ONCE in 30 YEARS. ONCE.
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it wasnt me, but i have a friend on video missing a mule buck 4 times. the thing just stood there looking at us. the only reason he didnt miss more is thats all he had in his quiver. at the range he outshoots me hands down, but buck fever got him good. its been 10 years since i tookk that video, but still feel a need to watch it whenever he's over. oh yeah....25 yards by the way...a shot he hits the 10 ring 95 times out of a hundred.
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04-10-2010, 10:31 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinC
The first paragrph is a def of a bow in alberta. Xbow does not meat the requirements. You cant deny that.
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Justin, have you read the main crossbow thread? This has been covered, in fact its the whole reason the crossbow is not in with the other bows as its not 'archery' tackle by definition only(held at draw).....however, as pointed out so many times, when it comes to bowhunting efficiency its basically the same as a compound.....real world, real life, bowhunting.....its a bow and that is why we are trying to see it put where it belongs.....for 'hunting'.
Talk about going in circles....now we are starting right back at square one again.
and talking about the 64 yrd vs 26 yrd capability lol....harvest stats don't show it any different than a compound so whaddup wit dat????
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04-10-2010, 10:36 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ
I've been bowhunting for 30 years, and only ONCE have I ever had the chance to take a 2nd shot. ONCE in 30 YEARS. ONCE.
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you would be an anomoly, i had 5x that amount my first season alone...lots of deer out there not sure whats going on when you miss.....now we are discussion the benefit of compounds over crossbows....have you read any of this? they have their differences that essentially equal them out and harvest stats show it to be true so shaddap already....weener.
and how many times have i even witnessed this phenom on wild t.v., relentless pursuit has a clip on the main opening of each show with his wife drilling straight down on a whitetail doe for about 5 shots before she finally connected.....and how many other whitetail deer shows i've seen them get 2nd shots....and even turkeys with bows getting second shots which is apparently unheard of and i've seen it two or three times and i hate turkey shows so........that argument you just put up is so non-issue its not even funny....talk about grasping at straws
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 04-10-2010 at 10:42 AM.
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04-10-2010, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,826
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I gave up guns for the compound to put the "hunt" back into hunting. It was a good move. A few years later I hung up the compounds and took up Traditional bows , again to put the "hunt" into hunting. Success has gone down, but the hunting experience has grown by leaps and bounds.
Bow Hunting has been good for me, I practice a lot , and enjoy it .
I work in the Industrial Construction sector, on very large projects. The Shell upgrader peaked with over 11,000 workers , many of these are hunters. Not all are my type of hunters. Any conversation at breaks about hunting always brings in comments from gun hunters about how they wish Xbows could be used. This is always followed by coments on how it is
..hard to shoot a bow,
..a crossbow is just like a gun.
.. You don't need to practice with a crossbow
..can shoot farther than a bow
..They are perfect for sneaking into places that you can't hunt because
they are quiet.
..You can ride in the back of the truck on private roads and just whack
a moose in the ditch and noody will ever hear you shoot.
...They are great at night because nobody will know you shot.
Ok these are not my type of hunters, and I don't hunt with them, but these are the the ones that will rush out and get a Xbow for the very reasons stated above. There are lots of them, and we don't need them in archery seasons. they are uncontroled in Rifle seasons with the noise of the gun , so you can just guess what they are going to be like if they can tote a cross bow.
Yes they are poachers and slobs, and this province has lots of poachers and slobs. I am sure some already have thoughts of Quad cruising with a loaded crossbow on the rack like the old show Rat Patrol for those old enough to remember it.LOL
There is no reason any able bodied person that wants to hunt the archery seasons can not learn to shoot a bow. If you don't have time, then make a choice , make time or get over it. If you spent half the time practicing archery as you do lobying for crossbows in Archery season you would be quite proficent with a bow.
The Bow hunters do not want to keep you out , we want you to join us, and take up the bow, and bow hunting. Our seasons are there because we do it the hard way, it takes more woods time for a harvest and our success rates reflect this.
If you believe that you can not shoot a bow, then an hour at a shop with lanes and some instruction will show you that you can shoot a bow. Many folks try a friends bow that is to much draw weight for them and give up, concluding they can't do it. The answer is easy get a bow in your hands you can handle, and then try again. You don't need 70 pounds and 300+ feet per second.
We are also getting a loby for allowing muzzle loaders in Archery seasons and Zones. Where does it stop?
Look up the bad Bull Muzzle loader, it has more power than the 338 Win Mag.
http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/
There are always people that want to make life easy, The X bow is to archery what the Bad Bull is to Muzzle loaders. Perhaps the Primitive Weapon / Muzzle loader regs need to reviewed and put back to what the original intent was.
Keep archery for seasons for what they were intended . Bows and arrows, not Stocks scopes and Bolts .
Bow hunting is about getting close, not shooting far.
Pete
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04-11-2010, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
Soon the reality will be NO more Bowzone, and I will quit hunting when that day arrives.... ( I don't feel safe outside the bowzone, with the hillbillies) People in the archery season don't mistake there buddies as moose!
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Funny, I don't feel safe in the countryside when the city boys invade it either
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