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10-10-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
You do know that the founding members of the teabaggers all studied under a commie...right?
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And?
Lots of brilliant conservative minds come from socialist/commie upbringings. Thomas Sowell comes to mind for one.
Not sure what your point is. That the mind is some sort of inelastic piece of hardware that can only continue down a single path once set?? Non-sensical!
You do realize that people, upon logical consideration of the facts, often abandon socialist philosophies don't you??
Last edited by rugatika; 10-10-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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10-10-2013, 12:40 PM
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Location: Calgary Perchdance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
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Likely won't be that high after the fair profits rebate kicks in. Also the likelihood of someone loosing their home and life savings goes to zero. Also in this process I strongly suspect the insurance companies are not even trying to make it work and actually adding stress into the system to help it fail.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-10-2013, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bison
It's no different in Canada bud.
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You clearly do not understand the difference between Canada's universal healthcare system and the US.\
Guy 
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-13-2013, 09:43 PM
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Vets return "Barry"cades to the whitehouse.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...on-washington/
Like I said, the longer this goes on the uglier it gets for the Dems and Barry.
Who was it that was calling these guys a bunch of teabaggers? What a shameful thing to say about vets.
Last edited by rugatika; 10-13-2013 at 09:52 PM.
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10-13-2013, 10:00 PM
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[QUOTE=rugatika;2149120]And?
Lots of brilliant conservative minds come from socialist/commie upbringings. Thomas Sowell comes to mind for one.
Not sure what your point is. That the mind is some sort of inelastic piece of hardware that can only continue down a single path once set?? Non-sensical!
You do realize that people, upon logical consideration of the facts, often abandon socialist philosophies don't you??[/QUOTE]
Yes I do... a great big slug of em turned to right wing fascism and then started a little thing called WWII about 70 years ago.
More recently they started two wars against people who had done them no harm on the thin excuse that it would somehow make the world safer.
Please feel free to continue to crush my non-sensical argument with great examples of how teabaggers and neo-cons might be expected to think and act now and in the future.
Wow Rugs... what a gift.
I owe ya for that one.
Last edited by Big Daddy Badger; 10-13-2013 at 10:06 PM.
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10-13-2013, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
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The blaze?
You do know who ownes that right?
And his history as well?
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10-13-2013, 10:41 PM
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Location: peace country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
You clearly do not understand the difference between Canada's universal healthcare system and the US.\
Guy |
Oh yes i do.
In the Us one pays trough the nose to see a doctor or specialist but you live.
In Canada you wait and wait and wait till you either dead or close to it before they get exited and try to do something to keep you breathing.
In the meantime they have no problem buying equipment that nobody uses and spend big money on renovating a hospital that closes a year later. 
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10-13-2013, 10:50 PM
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Banned
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[QUOTE=Big Daddy Badger;2153356]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
And?
Lots of brilliant conservative minds come from socialist/commie upbringings. Thomas Sowell comes to mind for one.
Not sure what your point is. That the mind is some sort of inelastic piece of hardware that can only continue down a single path once set?? Non-sensical!
You do realize that people, upon logical consideration of the facts, often abandon socialist philosophies don't you??[/QUOTE]
Yes I do... a great big slug of em turned to right wing fascism and then started a little thing called WWII about 70 years ago.
More recently they started two wars against people who had done them no harm on the thin excuse that it would somehow make the world safer.
Please feel free to continue to crush my non-sensical argument with great examples of how teabaggers and neo-cons might be expected to think and act now and in the future.
Wow Rugs... what a gift.
I owe ya for that one. |
non-sensical is right.
WWII fascists. Neo-cons. Teabaggers. That is some priceless rhetoric there. Awesome. 
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10-13-2013, 10:51 PM
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Location: peace country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
You clearly do not understand the difference between Canada's universal healthcare system and the US.\
Guy |
Oh yes i do.
In the Us one pays trough the nose to see a doctor or specialist but you live.
In Canada you wait and wait and wait till you either dead or close to it before they get exited and try to do something to keep you breathing.
In the meantime they have no problem buying equipment or supplies that nobody uses or can be had locally for 10 cents on the dollar and spend big money on renovating a hospital that closes a year later.
The pharmaceutical companies in both countries make billions selling pills for treating a disease rather than searching for a cure just to keep it going, Humans are after all just seen as a renewable resource 
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10-13-2013, 10:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bison
Oh yes i do.
In the Us one pays trough the nose to see a doctor or specialist but you live.
In Canada you wait and wait and wait till you either dead or close to it before they get exited and try to do something to keep you breathing.
In the meantime they have no problem buying equipment that nobody uses and spend big money on renovating a hospital that closes a year later. |
SDF was right... you really have no clue about this.
Is the Canadian system perfect...no.
Does it work?
Yes....and quite well.
Chew on this... the American system IS the reason that ours suffers in some areas.
Their pay through the nose and to hell with the poor system drives costs through the roof.
Universal health care there...just like ours would have been the best thing to happen to health care here since the invention of the bandaid but... that fact seems to have escaped all the nay sayers and the northern tea bagger neo-con drones.
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10-13-2013, 11:00 PM
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Every time this thread pops to the top of the list again all that comes to my mind is how I probably should be getting a bunch of candles in the mail to my Mom and my two brothers..............
How will any of them fare on the healthcare issue? Mom has been on Social Security and has a pretty good HMO so HOPEFULLY her rates will stay within something that can be managed within what they pay to her. If not, her kids will kick in the amount needed to pay any increase.
One brother is retired but had a business and has health insurance for all of his family and his employees through a private insurer so hopefully his situation will not be affected since they are already paying their own way.
Oldest brother is retired too and he recently switched to same HMO as Mom so hopefully his premiums will not go through the roof.
Now my grandson is covered under a State policy that costs none of us anything (don't ask me how; the family just honestly fills out the forms every year - it is through the State not federal government (yes, I know States get help from Federal Government).
My nieces, nephews and their families are all covered by insurance through their employers and I sure hope their premiums do not skyrocket because of this mess. Gracious knows they struggle enough as it is and all of the Moms and Dads are working.
Some days I just cannot watch or read any of the news that goes on in the States as it is frustrating to watch grown men and women fuss and fume and not really be making a lot of progress. Of course remember I am the one who thinks the paychecks should be stopped at the top and flow downward not, furlough the lower paid government employees. I have never had patience when it comes to Congress and what they do for themselves but neglect to do for the American People.
They need term limits in Congress desperately. And turn those lights off in the White House first - yes, that would have been my first move. The President and Vice President have personal residences that they can move back to - save on those utilities. After all it is the little people who have to pay them.
Wonder if they will have a National Christmas Tree this year with lights on it? I would rather see that STAY and Congress go without heat in their offices for the American Public to KEEP something they enjoy THAT they pay for anyway.
OK Rant over. See you guys don't want me as a citizen............... 
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10-13-2013, 11:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
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What an over statement.
A large group...basically a mob forms...some park cops show in bicycle helmets and nylon jackets with asps... a couple have shields. They then stand around and let the mob surround them and hurl insults at them...all the while claiming that they are being oppressed somehow.
Its a farce....cops show up at all of these sort of events.
Looked to me like all they were doing was positioning themselves to protect properties important to the American people...and form a presance.
If they hadn't shown up and some politrically opposed agitator had started something...those drama queens would have cried foul over that as well.
You are really scrapping bottom on thois one Rugs.
Quit while you are behind.
We get it Obama is abit of a flop.... but not everything he touches has gone to poop and well... he isn't really any worse than the last one.
Universal health care is a good thing... and every developed nation on the planet except the USA knew that a long time ago.
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10-13-2013, 11:24 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batwoman
Every time this thread pops to the top of the list again all that comes to my mind is how I probably should be getting a bunch of candles in the mail to my Mom and my two brothers..............
How will any of them fare on the healthcare issue? Mom has been on Social Security and has a pretty good HMO so HOPEFULLY her rates will stay within something that can be managed within what they pay to her. If not, her kids will kick in the amount needed to pay any increase.
One brother is retired but had a business and has health insurance for all of his family and his employees through a private insurer so hopefully his situation will not be affected since they are already paying their own way.
Oldest brother is retired too and he recently switched to same HMO as Mom so hopefully his premiums will not go through the roof.
Now my grandson is covered under a State policy that costs none of us anything (don't ask me how; the family just honestly fills out the forms every year - it is through the State not federal government (yes, I know States get help from Federal Government).
My nieces, nephews and their families are all covered by insurance through their employers and I sure hope their premiums do not skyrocket because of this mess. Gracious knows they struggle enough as it is and all of the Moms and Dads are working.
Some days I just cannot watch or read any of the news that goes on in the States as it is frustrating to watch grown men and women fuss and fume and not really be making a lot of progress. Of course remember I am the one who thinks the paychecks should be stopped at the top and flow downward not, furlough the lower paid government employees. I have never had patience when it comes to Congress and what they do for themselves but neglect to do for the American People.
They need term limits in Congress desperately. And turn those lights off in the White House first - yes, that would have been my first move. The President and Vice President have personal residences that they can move back to - save on those utilities. After all it is the little people who have to pay them.
Wonder if they will have a National Christmas Tree this year with lights on it? I would rather see that STAY and Congress go without heat in their offices for the American Public to KEEP something they enjoy THAT they pay for anyway.
OK Rant over. See you guys don't want me as a citizen............... |
"See you guys don't want me as a citizen............... "
Yes we do Batwoman. 
You have common sense and thats something missing BIG time all over the world.
__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff
"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
Last edited by vcmm; 10-13-2013 at 11:45 PM.
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10-14-2013, 01:16 AM
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before electronic comunication the us postal service unified the country and helped it grow. im pretty sure americans know that letting private enterprise handle this task would be impossible there would be no big picture and service would be inconsistant or unavailable nobody would think it was their right for postal service. why arent right wing americans saying the postal service is a huge historic ripoff and cost the little people too much?because it was a huge and beautiful success! they have a very selective free market religion. im always reading about problems whats covered and whats not when my brother had a tumour in his brain they sent him for tests without knowing what was wrong. he got brain surgery the next day today he is 100 percent. i know people who have waited too long for neccessary treatment but i know others who sailed right through, when you get great treatment in canada thats all you get not an accounting nightmare thats as much about the players as the medical costs.now if we could get rid of the provinces why are they in the health care anyway
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10-14-2013, 07:14 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
What an over statement.
A large group...basically a mob forms...some park cops show in bicycle helmets and nylon jackets with asps... a couple have shields. They then stand around and let the mob surround them and hurl insults at them...all the while claiming that they are being oppressed somehow.
Its a farce....cops show up at all of these sort of events.
Looked to me like all they were doing was positioning themselves to protect properties important to the American people...and form a presance.
If they hadn't shown up and some politrically opposed agitator had started something...those drama queens would have cried foul over that as well.
You are really scrapping bottom on thois one Rugs.
Quit while you are behind.
We get it Obama is abit of a flop.... but not everything he touches has gone to poop and well... he isn't really any worse than the last one.
Universal health care is a good thing... and every developed nation on the planet except the USA knew that a long time ago.
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Scraping bottom. That's pretty rich coming from someone that calls a bunch of vets teabaggers and drama queens. I honestly would never have expected that to come from you.
I guess the American healthcare system is so terrible that our own leaders and people from around the world go to the USA for healthcare when they really need it.
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10-14-2013, 07:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
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The US government is beyond hope.
There are 45 million on food stamps right now.
The Federal Reserve is buying mortgage backed securities off the banks balance sheets at the rate of $45 billion a month. Another 40 billion a month is being printed to prop up dead economy.
They can't pay the interest on the T-Bills without printing more money. QE forever? Bernanke, Fed Chairman, refused to taper off on the QE.
Since 1990 the US economy has grown 75%. Government spending has grown 500%.
If the US dollar loses its reserve currency status, and that is what the BRICS are proposing, the western economies will implode.
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10-14-2013, 09:33 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Scraping bottom. That's pretty rich coming from someone that calls a bunch of vets teabaggers and drama queens. I honestly would never have expected that to come from you.
I guess the American healthcare system is so terrible that our own leaders and people from around the world go to the USA for healthcare when they really need it.
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If the US system is so wonderful... Why is the mortality rate 8.1/100,000 in the US and 7.3 in Canada? On top of that the US spends way more in GDP on healthcare than Canada? Why is it in the US getting ill can mean losing your home and savings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-14-2013, 09:54 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
What an over statement.
A large group...basically a mob forms...some park cops show in bicycle helmets and nylon jackets with asps... a couple have shields. They then stand around and let the mob surround them and hurl insults at them...all the while claiming that they are being oppressed somehow.
Its a farce....cops show up at all of these sort of events.
Looked to me like all they were doing was positioning themselves to protect properties important to the American people...and form a presance.
If they hadn't shown up and some politrically opposed agitator had started something...those drama queens would have cried foul over that as well.
You are really scrapping bottom on thois one Rugs.
Quit while you are behind.
We get it Obama is abit of a flop.... but not everything he touches has gone to poop and well... he isn't really any worse than the last one.
Universal health care is a good thing... and every developed nation on the planet except the USA knew that a long time ago.
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A mob forms...
War vets. Not a mob.
A mob resisting tyranny. Like the ghetto Jews who stood up?
The US is starting to bubble...how long till a full boil?
Evil prevails when good men do nothing.
Stasi.
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10-14-2013, 09:55 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
If the US system is so wonderful... Why is the mortality rate 8.1/100,000 in the US and 7.3 in Canada? On top of that the US spends way more in GDP on healthcare than Canada? Why is it in the US getting ill can mean losing your home and savings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate |
What's the median age?
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10-14-2013, 10:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,881
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Actually Pesky .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
SDF was right... you really have no clue about this.
Is the Canadian system perfect...no.
Does it work? Yes....and quite well.
Chew on this... the American system IS the reason that ours suffers in some areas.
Their pay through the nose and to hell with the poor system drives costs through the roof.
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__________________________________________________ _____
Most people have no idea (incl yourself) what they are paying in Canada for Health Care (HC) ....
http://www.carp.ca/2012/09/21/the-tr...of-healthcare/
excerpt .... The report calculated that 24.3% of tax revenues in Canada was spent on healthcare and used that percentage to determine what portion of the taxes we each pay was used to fund health care – the “public health insurance premium”. So then, for 2012, “the estimated average payment for public health care… ranges from $3,418 to $11,401”
Off course, because of Canada's progressive tax system ....
“The 10 per cent of Canadian families with the lowest incomes will pay an average of about $487 for public health care insurance in 2012. The 10 per cent of Canadian families who earn an average income of $55,271 will pay an average of $5,285 for public health care insurance, and the families among the top 10 per cent of income earners in Canada will pay $32,628.”
How much are families paying in the United States ?
A new Forbes report forecasts ... Obama Care Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four.
As for O'bama; rather than tell Americans the truth that they’d have to pay more and that the extra price was worth it, HE promised the ultimate free lunch.
"we’ll cover 30 million uninsured AND the typical family will see their premiums go down by $2500 per year !"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/
Complete lies ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
If the US system is so wonderful... Why is the mortality rate 8.1/100,000 in the US and 7.3 in Canada?
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Really .8 in 100K -- Pollution / population density
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
On top of that the US spends way more in GDP on healthcare than Canada?
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A Major problem with the US system is that roughly a billion per year gets stolen by the socialists (liberal) admin / insurance types imbedded within the system
Last edited by TBD; 10-14-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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10-14-2013, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connexion123
What's the median age?
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Canada has a life expectancy of 82 years and the US 79 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
America has such a better system than Canada but they die younger? Facts don't show that.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBD
__________________________________________________ _____
Most people have no idea (incl yourself) what they are paying in Canada for Health Care (HC) ....
http://www.carp.ca/2012/09/21/the-tr...of-healthcare/
excerpt .... The report calculated that 24.3% of tax revenues in Canada was spent on healthcare and used that percentage to determine what portion of the taxes we each pay was used to fund health care – the “public health insurance premium”. So then, for 2012, “the estimated average payment for public health care… ranges from $3,418 to $11,401”
Off course, because of Canada's progressive tax system ....
“The 10 per cent of Canadian families with the lowest incomes will pay an average of about $487 for public health care insurance in 2012. The 10 per cent of Canadian families who earn an average income of $55,271 will pay an average of $5,285 for public health care insurance, and the families among the top 10 per cent of income earners in Canada will pay $32,628.”
How much are families paying in the United States ?
A new Forbes report forecasts that Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four.
As for O'bama; rather than tell Americans the truth that they’d have to pay more and that the extra price was worth it, HE promised the ultimate free lunch.
"we’ll cover 30 million uninsured AND the typical family will see their premiums go down by $2500 per year !"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/
Complete lies ....
Really .8 in 100K -- Pollution / population density
Link pls ? |
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-...are-2013-07-30
"
7. Canada
Health expenditure per capita: $4,522
Expenditure as a percentage of GDP: 11.2% (5th highest)
Life expectancy: 81.0 years
Only four nations spent more than Canada on health care as a percent of GDP. Although the country offers public health care, paid for through taxes under the Canada Health Act, just over 70% of health-care spending came from public funds—below the 72.2% average for the OECD. Despite its above-average spending, Canada had just 2.4 doctors and 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 residents, both among the lowest for all OECD nations. However, the nation is a major spender on pharmaceutical drugs at $752 per capita each year, higher than every other nation considered except for the U.S. Still, at 16.6% of health-care expenditure, it is in line with the rest of the OECD.
1. United States
Health expenditure per capita: $8,508
Expenditure as a percentage of GDP: 17.7% (the highest)
Life expectancy: 78.7 years
The U.S. was by far the largest spender on health care at more than $8,500 per person, totaling an unmatched 17.7% of GDP. Just two other nations surveyed by the OECD, Mexico and Chile, joined the U.S. in covering less than half of all medical expenses through public funding. Still, the cost of health care in the U.S. was so high that public expenditures on health still amounted more than $4,000 per person, trailing only Norway. Also, while 90% of residents reported they were in “good” health, the most of any OECD nation, the U.S. led all member nations in obesity by a sizable margin, and had a life expectancy at birth of only 78.7 years—lower than 25 of the 34 OECD nations."
As you can see... the US system has not shown any benefits to life expectancy or mortality rates over Canada.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-14-2013, 10:17 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
If the US system is so wonderful... Why is the mortality rate 8.1/100,000 in the US and 7.3 in Canada? On top of that the US spends way more in GDP on healthcare than Canada? Why is it in the US getting ill can mean losing your home and savings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate |
WOW!! Those are amazingly low mortality rates. Going to assume you meant per 1000, not 100,000.
Lots of other factors that affect mortality rate, particularly when comparing a densely populated country with a more sparsely populated one. Homicide rates, diet, exercise, education levels, culture, etc.
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10-14-2013, 10:34 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: peace country
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
SDF was right... you really have no clue about this.
Is the Canadian system perfect...no.
Does it work?
Yes....and quite well.
Chew on this... the American system IS the reason that ours suffers in some areas.
Their pay through the nose and to hell with the poor system drives costs through the roof.
Universal health care there...just like ours would have been the best thing to happen to health care here since the invention of the bandaid but... that fact seems to have escaped all the nay sayers and the northern tea bagger neo-con drones.
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Obviously you never needed it.
My Wife is often very dizzy ..took about 9 months to get a car scan to figger out she has a blocked return artery in her neck but her docter said it is not deemed life threatening (just yet)Wife demanded to see a specialist,.yep after 3 months of nagging the preliminary date is set for march 29- 014.
In the meantime wife is flopping on the floor like a landed fish.
BTW wife has struggled with BM's for the last 12 years,..doctors solution,,take exlax daily!!!.
Oh jeah,..Canadian health care is working pretty good and it is free ,..when you're healthy!
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10-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Scraping bottom. That's pretty rich coming from someone that calls a bunch of vets teabaggers and drama queens. I honestly would never have expected that to come from you.
I guess the American healthcare system is so terrible that our own leaders and people from around the world go to the USA for healthcare when they really need it.
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Pfftt.... I should overlook the obvious because someone claims that the guys kicking up a fuss are vets?
Please.
If thats the case then stop disagreeing with me because I'm a vet.
It was a troll video Rugs...from a troll "news" source....posted on what is quite honestly a troll post.
Fact is the cops just showed up and did their job.
The only people making a scene or being abusive were those protestors.
Had those same protestors been occupy folks or folks protesting the results of the Zimmerman trial or any number of other things... many here...including I suspect yourself...would have been all over that and questioning why the cops didn't smack heads.
And those people flocking to the US for treatements are doing it because they can afford to. Most simply do not wish to wait their turn and since they can afford not to..they choose to go across the line.
Thats fine but it does not mean that our system has failed.
It means that there are imperfections just like in any other system and that some folks... feel that they should be able to jump ahead of others.
Of course what you failed to note is the flip side of your argument which is... that while hundreds of Canadians might flock to the US for treatments... thousands of Americans come here because they cannot afford the cost of treatment at home.
Once again...thanks for helping to advance the arguement favouring universal health care.
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10-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
WOW!! Those are amazingly low mortality rates. Going to assume you meant per 1000, not 100,000.
Lots of other factors that affect mortality rate, particularly when comparing a densely populated country with a more sparsely populated one. Homicide rates, diet, exercise, education levels, culture, etc.
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LOL
Yup... per 1000.
Sure... let's explore your excuses for the data not being fair to your premise that the US system is better and other factors skew the data against the US numbers.
Homicide rates.
Canada 1.6 / 100,000 (yes...100K is correct here )
US 4.7 / 100,000 a drop on life expectancy for americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate
Obesity/diet/exercise.
Yup... Americans have a major obesity problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity
"In the United States obesity is estimated to cause 111,909 to 365,000 deaths per year,"
Looking at the math...it is not extreme enough to move the dial in favor of the US health system.
Education
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-599-...c-g001-eng.htm
Canada has a higher post secondary education rate. Not a huge difference. So your theory is if you are uneducated you die faster? You would need to provide some evidence for your theory there.
Cultural.
Again...can't see any reference to difference cultures causing a significant difference in mortality rates in a developed country. Provide some evidence.
Lots of excuses for why the US lags behind Canada in both mortality rate and life expectancy... but it is clear that the massive overspending on health care within the US system is not showing any benefits over Canada's lower cost and more effective system of universal health care.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
Last edited by Sundancefisher; 10-14-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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10-14-2013, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger
Pfftt.... I should overlook the obvious because someone claims that the guys kicking up a fuss are vets?
Please.
If thats the case then stop disagreeing with me because I'm a vet.
It was a troll video Rugs...from a troll "news" source....posted on what is quite honestly a troll post.
Fact is the cops just showed up and did their job.
The only people making a scene or being abusive were those protestors.
Had those same protestors been occupy folks or folks protesting the results of the Zimmerman trial or any number of other things... many here...including I suspect yourself...would have been all over that and questioning why the cops didn't smack heads.
And those people flocking to the US for treatements are doing it because they can afford to. Most simply do not wish to wait their turn and since they can afford not to..they choose to go across the line.
Thats fine but it does not mean that our system has failed.
It means that there are imperfections just like in any other system and that some folks... feel that they should be able to jump ahead of others.
Of course what you failed to note is the flip side of your argument which is... that while hundreds of Canadians might flock to the US for treatments... thousands of Americans come here because they cannot afford the cost of treatment at home.
Once again...thanks for helping to advance the arguement favouring universal health care. |
Very true. Even Sarah Palin admitted that when they needed health care they had traveled to Canada.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_490080.html
Rather than go to an American hospital she went to one in Canada. Likely she was not charged.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-14-2013, 10:51 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
LOL
Yup... per 1000.
Sure... let's explore your excuses for the data not being fair to your premise that the US system is better and other factors skew the data against the US numbers.
Homicide rates.
Canada 1.6 / 100,000 (yes...100K is correct here )
US 1.2 / 100,000 a positive impact on life expectancy numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate
Obesity/diet/exercise.
Yup... Americans have a major obesity problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity
"In the United States obesity is estimated to cause 111,909 to 365,000 deaths per year,"
Looking at the math...it is not extreme enough to move the dial in favor of the US health system.
Education
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-599-...c-g001-eng.htm
Canada has a higher post secondary education rate. Not a huge difference. So your theory is if you are uneducated you die faster? You would need to provide some evidence for your theory there.
Cultural.
Again...can't see any reference to difference cultures causing a significant difference in mortality rates in a developed country. Provide some evidence.
Lots of excuses for why the US lags behind Canada in both mortality rate and life expectancy... but it is clear that the massive overspending on health care within the US system is not showing any benefits over Canada's lower cost and more effective system of universal health care. |
Better check your numbers again, again. US homicide rate is NOT lower than Canada. More like 3x higher.
People with secondary education are healthier and eat better. By a significant factor. http://www.nber.org/digest/mar07/w12352.html
etc etc etc.
Suffice it say you and BigDB are wrong. Again. (although I do applaud you for not resorting to the childish name calling...makes the debate much more adult)
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10-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Better check your numbers again, again. US homicide rate is NOT lower than Canada. More like 3x higher.
People with secondary education are healthier and eat better. By a significant factor. http://www.nber.org/digest/mar07/w12352.html
etc etc etc.
Suffice it say you and BigDB are wrong. Again. (although I do applaud you for not resorting to the childish name calling...makes the debate much more adult) |
Your right. I took the UK numbers. Them americans are killing each other off frantically.  Thanks... corrected my error.
So let's assume you are right and these numbers normalize and actually bring it even with Canada... the costs are still not justified.
Maybe the cultural reasons for the high homicide rate alone should be reason to not want to live in the US regardless of healthcare systems. 
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-14-2013, 11:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Your right. I took the UK numbers. Them americans are killing each other off frantically. Thanks... corrected my error.
So let's assume you are right and these numbers normalize and actually bring it even with Canada... the costs are still not justified.
Maybe the cultural reasons for the high homicide rate alone should be reason to not want to live in the US regardless of healthcare systems. |
The majority of homicides are gangsters killing gangsters.
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