Back in the game, need a big bow

[220swifty]

After guiding bowhunters for bear last week, i have rekindled my interest in the ole stick and string method. Problem is, my current bow was the canadian tire "top of the line" about 12 years ago, and i am thinking i may need to get back into the sport with gusto. Next problem, i am a large fella, and need a bow with a 31" draw length in order to properly fit me. Anyone have any ideas about who would make a big boy bow?

[SugarCreek]

220swifty

Go talk with John and Pat at Red Deer Archery Centre (403)343-1153. If anyone can get you fitted to a bow, it will be them. They are closed on Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays but are open the other days. You won't be disappointed with the service and the product.

Cheers.....Marco

[220swifty]

Mostly looking for anyone else who knows of a manufacturer who makes 31" bows.

[dkferguson]

APA makes and XL model that will go long enough and so does Bowtech. Apa is Canadian made.

[Deki10]

pse makes the x force in the long draw version...

[russ]

Darton has several regular production models that reach that long or longer, so does Hoyt.

[BrownBear416]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

After guiding bowhunters for bear last week, i have rekindled my interest in the ole stick and string method. Problem is, my current bow was the canadian tire "top of the line" about 12 years ago, and i am thinking i may need to get back into the sport with gusto. Next problem, i am a large fella, and need a bow with a 31" draw length in order to properly fit me. Anyone have any ideas about who would make a big boy bow?

If you just want to start out slow and save some money then there is a 31 inch pse for sale in the Buy and Sell.

Jeff

[russ]

I don't think that bow is much newer than what he already has.

[BrownBear416]

Originally Posted by russ

I don't think that bow is much newer than what he already has.

Thanks Russ,

I guess i should have read all of his post before i opened my mouth.

[Mike_W]

Swifty keep in mind that if you have been out of the bow hunting scene for a while string loops have become high popular and recomended that alone adds half and inch to any bow then in addition shooting from a wrist attached release adds about an inch might be able to get away with 30 inch draw now or even 29.5.

This will give you a selection of pretty much any bow on the market!!

Cheers,
Mike

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by SugarCreek

220swifty

Go talk with John and Pat at Red Deer Archery Centre (403)343-1153. If anyone can get you fitted to a bow, it will be them. They are closed on Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays but are open the other days. You won't be disappointed with the service and the product.

Cheers.....Marco

X2 for John and Pat. They're very knowledgeable, very helpful and darn nice people.

[theduke]

hoyt makes a bow with a long draw the katera xl up 31.5 inches of draw length

[catnthehat]

68" American longbow might fill your needs!
( couldn't help it, hadda be a smartazz, I know you are looking for a wheel bow!)
Cat

[russ]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Swifty keep in mind that if you have been out of the bow hunting scene for a while string loops have become high popular and recomended that alone adds half and inch to any bow then in addition shooting from a wrist attached release adds about an inch might be able to get away with 30 inch draw now or even 29.5.

This will give you a selection of pretty much any bow on the market!!

Cheers,
Mike

From what I've been told a loop changes the anchor point not the draw length. The crotch of the string ideally needs to be at the corner of the mouth and no more than past the corner of the eye. That puts the string at the center of the body midline.

[Trav]

Originally Posted by russ

From what I've been told a loop changes the anchor point not the draw length. The crotch of the string ideally needs to be at the corner of the mouth and no more than past the corner of the eye. That puts the string at the center of the body midline.

X2

[Muskeg]

I agree with mike.. it will change what draw length you can shoot.. it won't be your draw length but you can shoot any bow with a long D-loop.. if you really wanted to you could put a 4" loop on and shoot a 26" draw length bow and retain knuckle anchor for a 30" draw length, although i wouldn't advise it!

[Mike_W]

Russ and Trav take your bow and hook your release to the string (if you have a D loop) and try and shoot it shouldnt have affected your draw length so you should be able to shoot just fine.....lol

Ok lets not turn this into a technical post if you go into any bow shop with a 29 inch draw length and tell them you want a D loop they will want to shorten the bows draw length to 28.5".

[russ]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Russ and Trav take your bow and hook your release to the string (if you have a D loop) and try and shoot it shouldnt have affected your draw length so you should be able to shoot just fine.....lol

The crotch of the string should remain at the corner of the mouth. That doesn't change, what should change is where the hand is anchored. I know where you're coming from but someone that's a far better archer than myself helped me see the light of my error in methodology.

[Mike_W]

I know but **** stop changing the point of the post the point is he can get away with a shorter draw with a d loop

[russ]

no mike, that IS the point trav and I are trying to make, a loop is NOT the way drawlength is adjusted.

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

I know but **** stop changing the point of the post the point is he can get away with a shorter draw with a d loop

Gee I guess all the bow companies should just make one mod for the bows they make and we can just make a longer D loop to accomodate everyones length. I wondered how a person can change the draw length if you do not change the mods on a dual cam or the pin and stop on a solo cam. If the bow is set at 25 inches and you add 3 inches of dloop it does not make it a 28inch bow, it is a 25 ich bow with 3 inches of dloop. the D loop will not and cannot change your draw length it can and will change your anchor point. If you go to a pro shop and they tell you they have to shorten your draw to put in a d loop I would be walking out the door. and going to a shop that knows what they are talking about. If this does not make sense phone some of the Companies that make the bows and ask them how do you change the draw from 28 to 28.5 I will bet they dont say add a half inch longer d loop.
But maybe I am way off base from all the tech training and coaching I have been given by someof the best coaches in Canada and the USA. You do it your way I will do it the proper way
Russ and I dont agree on lots of stuff but If he mentions something listen he might be able to teach you something, the guy is a wealth of knowledge, he prob has forgotten more than most can remember.

[Mike_W]

So Trav if you were a 25 inch draw and added a three inch d loop could you shoot it?
Anchor point will be the same wouldnt it? it's your correct draw length right? should shoot fine right?
A major shooting problem is people having draw lengths too long if you have to draw your bow back too far due to having a d loop and a release what would the solution be?

I am not saying that adding a d loop changes your true draw length, if you are a right handed archer draw length is the length between your thumb and first finger to the right corner of your lip. I realize this.

The point is swifty try other bows set at there max with a d loop and release if it works it works draw length measurers are bogus anyway there are so many factors that affect draw length and sticking a meter stick in you neck and hold your hands out is crap. it gives you a range to look at but I think anyone would be a fool to measure and set up you got to pull it to know if its right!

[220swifty]

Well, a shiny new Hoyt Katera showed up in the mail yesterday. I guess it is handy when you guide the right people on bear hunts. This one was built as a prototype and has been tested by some magazine editors, but i ain't complaining, the price was just too damn good. Oh yeah, the magazine editor that sent it to me sent a 30" draw, and reccomended i get a longer string loop to get the extra inch so that i can have a proper anchor point.

[CNP]

We say the same things differently lol. If you currently shoot a bow sans a D-loop and you and the bow are in perfect harmony lol (demonstrating perfect form and able to repeat a consistent and perfect anchor).......all this will change when you put on a D-loop. The anchor and form that you practiced for years will be compromised because when adding the D-loop you are placing your release aid behind the string 1/2 - 5/8 inch and drawing your hand to a point 1/2 to 5/8 inch beyond where you previously drew your bow. That is a fact. If you want to maintain the form/anchor you have practised for years you must reduce the draw length of the bow to compensate for the addition of the D-loop. People see this 2 different ways: In one group you have people who shoot a bow without a d-loop and then after some period they add a d-loop. These people know that they have to change the draw length of their bow or change their form/anchor. The other group is the group who have always shot with a d-loop and and they don't believe the other group lol. If these people took off their d-loops they would see the effect of removing their d-loop. They would want to lengthen the bow draw length to maintain the same form/anchor. Of course adding a d-loop does not change the draw length of the bow....but it does change the point at which the draw occurs (now behind the string) and full draw is consequently 1/2 to 5/8 further back of the string. The bow string position does not change but your anchor points will change by the length of the loop...........that is a fact. I used to shoot a 30" DL for years before installing a D-loop. Now I shoot a 29.5" DL all because I added a d-loop. In the end I lost .5'' of true DL where others might say their DL increased by .5". Of course that is not correct because the string is not being pulled out any further, it is just that your hand must be pulled back further to account for the d-loop. To mitigate that you must shorten your DL. Thats how my electrical processes work this one out...

Measuring a person for DL does not necessarily include a D-loop (it didn't 10 years ago and it doesn't now). You have finger shooters and release shooters who shoot from the string and d-loop shooters.........all having a different relationship with the string. When you are getting fitted with a bow you have to makes an announcement that you will be shooting fingers, release from string or release from d-loop..............because all of these will make a difference on selecting the correct draw length.

[killerbren]

Originally Posted by ehntr

If you want to maintain the form/anchor you have practised for years you must reduce the draw length of the bow to compensate for the addition of the D-loop.

You can also get a different release, one thats shorter, or better yet, adjustable.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by killerbren

You can also get a different release, one thats shorter, or better yet, adjustable.

Carter Quickie as an example.

[russ]

ehuntr's commentary points to one of the biggest mistakes we make when we start messing with things like loops & draw length. When I added a loop last year to my mix, I stubbornly held on to my old anchor. I just could not get my head around the idea that I had to let go of my dearly held anchor point of 15 years. So I started changing releases to match my old anchor. While changing releases had benefits later on for unrelated reasons, it did not have any where near the positive affect that I had expected at that point in time. More on that mess later So here's what it boils down to, the nock of your arrow needs to be in the center line of your body, not an inch ahead or an inch back or whatever to match your anchor. Instead, your anchor MUST match your draw length. As easy as that sounds, it's a tough concept for us old salts to accept. So I must restate the arrow nock needs to remain at mid mass, it's all about stability.

[CNP]

Russ.........I agree with your comments with the caveat: and there was no mistake in my comments. I you had a PERFECT anchor before you installed your loop you won't have a perfect anchor after you installed your loop. If you had a PERFECT anchor with a loop installed you won't have a PERFECT anchor when you take the loop off. Logical. The solution is not change your PERFECT anchor...the solution is change draw length. Your post is about changing or finding the perfect anchor. My post says I have the perfect anchor, not changing that (my nose is my guide lol), I have to change something...changing DL is the solution. My starting point is that a person has the perfect anchor to start with. I will stubbornly hold on to my anchor because it is all you say it needs to be lol. You start with, you must change your anchor point. Totally different trains of thought.

your anchor MUST match your draw length

Yes! The inverse is also true!

[russ]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Yes! The inverse is also true!

No, I'm afraid it's not. There is too much emphasis on the anchor point or MORE accurately the hand position remaining the same. The reality it, your hand can not stay in the same spot. The anchor MUST change as the distance changes and not only that, your hand must move to properly activate ANY release.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by russ

No, I'm afraid it's not. There is too much emphasis on the anchor point or MORE accurately the hand position remaining the same. The reality it, your hand can not stay in the same spot. The anchor MUST change as the distance changes and not only that, your hand must move to properly activate ANY release.

Your killin' me.

The anchor MUST change

Why is it that you want to force people into changing their anchor point? That is always an option but maybe not the right option.

You are tellin' us that "your anchor MUST match your draw length"

and in the same breath your draw length MUST NOT match your anchor.

Verify that will ya.

and

There is too much emphasis on the anchor point or MORE accurately the hand position remaining the same. The reality it, your hand can not stay in the same spot

Installing a loop changes your anchor. How can there be too much emphasis on proper anchor? Why can't your hand position remain the same? The reality is my hand can stay in the same spot by reducing the DL of the bow.

The anchor MUST change as the distance changes and not only that, your hand must move to properly activate ANY release

Correct. That is why you shorten the DL of the bow to compensate for the addition of the loop (if your bow is adjustable). Guess what.....anchor does not change. Beautiful...just what I want. My draw hand is not behind my neck (exageration lol)....perfect....everything is beautiful in it's own way, like a starry summer night, or a snow covered winters day...

Just popped into my head lol