barbed hooks not illegal - Page 4

browning375 · #91 12-04-2012, 09:55 AM

The wife got ticketed two years ago because her barb was not pinched back far enough for some snot nose F&W officer. It was clearly pinched back the best she could, but he said he could still feel it. Needless to say i took it to court just to waste his time, and prove a point. To boot it was on a stocked fish pond paid by our tax dollars, i would of been more accepting if we were actually on a stream or lake, but a friggin trout pond! give me a break, i actually told him to spend his time more wisely and look for real cases on actual wildlife like people poaching walleye and sturgeon instead of hanging around a man made trout pond which is stocked to the gills!

Sorry about my rant, been on my chest for a long time!

gr8tbigkid · #92 12-04-2012, 09:59 AM

I just got off phone with F&W they said its true barbs are ok they would likeyou to use barbless but thats not being enforced and anyone who has got a ticket for using in the last while has been notified and and spoken to! about it..so if you got a ticket and they havnt got back toyu hmmm id be calling damn i still glad i followed rule

that was not there and ddnt get a ticket lmfao ....

WishinIBFishin · #93 12-04-2012, 10:10 AM

When I read this, I could not believe it... so I called
Executive Director, Fish and Wildlife Enforcement Branch (Daniel Boyco) to confirm.

There is currently a glitch in the law that prevents the enforcement of barbless hooks. ESRD can no longer ticket for it.
When i asked if the intent was to fix this glitch, mr Boyco did not care to speculate on it.

So, I think I might still use barbless on pike since they take it so deep anyways... barbed on perchies, whites and any other ones that get away on me too often ... YUM!
LOL
-Wishin

Sundancefisher · #94 12-04-2012, 10:32 AM

F&W wants this number used for queries

310-3773

Cheers

Sun

tacklerunner · #95 12-04-2012, 10:48 AM

As far as I'm concerned, if the regs state barbless it can be enforced. Probably need a court judgement or a new law passed but I don't feel F&W is required to inform any of us when they get this legal glitch fixed if it's clearly stated in the regs. So barbed fishers run a risk IMO. You never know what's coming down the pipe. Probably could fight it in court but who wants to spend the time in court when you could be fishing?

Reminds me of a time about 10 yrs ago when Calgary police were making a labour statement by refusing to write any tickets for 1 day to demonstrate the loss of revenues. I got a speeding ticket that day. LOL. What are you gonna do? Paid the ticket.

KegRiver · #96 12-04-2012, 11:51 AM

Barbed or barbless, not that big a deal in my book.
But it is symbolic of some of the nonsense the government inflicts on people.

There should be accountability for when government makes mistakes, or simply goes off half cocked as is the case here.

Problem is, there is no such thing as accountability in government or in the court system. A conviction based on a misguided law or worse, an illogical or unnecessary law, is still a conviction even when that law is subsequently thrown out.
At least for the average person that's the way it works. I suppose if you have deep enough pockets you might get some justice. But a court appointed lawyer is about as helpful as no lawyer at all.

I was lucky, I was never checked for barbed hooks. That's a good thing because I didn't realize one could be convicted of violating that law by simply having a new hook still in the package, in their possession.
My friend found that out the hard way.

I'm sure some rocket scientist or is that rock scientist, will claim that such a charge would never hold up in court. Well maybe if you can afford to take it to court that would be true. If you can't, maybe because you'd have to miss too much time from work and would therefore loose your job, then it doesn't matter what the courts may say. You are deemed guilty by virtue of the fact you paid the fine.

So what happens to my friend when it turns out that this law was never legally enforceable? Nothing, that's what. He will receive no refund, no apology, his record will not be cleared. At the very most he'll be told, "to bad so sad."

But for him it was a small fine and an entry in the records that no one will ever look at.

For me, this same sort of thing has cost me thousands of dollars and years of pain and frustration and all I have to show for it is an injured back and an empty bank account. And I'm lucky compared to some.

MoFugger21 · #97 12-04-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KegRiver

... I was lucky, I was never checked for barbed hooks. That's a good thing because I didn't realize one could be convicted of violating that law by simply having a new hook still in the package, in their possession.
My friend found that out the hard way....

I'm not sure if there is sarcasm in this part of your post, but the hook needs to be involved in active fishing... While I've heard of CO's charging people for this, it isn't (or wasn't I guess...) against the law to have barbed hooks in your tackle box/possession.

waterninja · #98 12-04-2012, 12:55 PM

i find it surprising that srd has not put out a bulletin on my wild alberta explaining the new law and to clear up any confusion. i'm sure they will do so soon. not critizising just commenting.

208prov · #99 12-04-2012, 01:16 PM

I cant remember but what do the sask regs say about cold lake, I think it says barbless also,?? Im gonna look

DiabeticKripple · #**100** 12-04-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterninja

i find it surprising that srd has not put out a bulletin on my wild alberta explaining the new law and to clear up any confusion. i'm sure they will do so soon. not critizising just commenting.

Why would they do that? They want everyone to keep using barbless until they get it sorted out

KegRiver · #**101** 12-04-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

I'm not sure if there is sarcasm in this part of your post, but the hook needs to be involved in active fishing... While I've heard of CO's charging people for this, it isn't (or wasn't I guess...) against the law to have barbed hooks in your tackle box/possession.

My point exactly.

Who wants any law enforcement officer looking for payback because you talked back to him or worse, beat the charge. Not me that's for sure.
I can get in more then enough trouble without inviting more.

Yeah maybe you'll run into one of the good ones and he won't try to make you pay, but what if he's not? I don't want to be another David Milgaard or Shawn Hennessey.

pickrel pat · #**102** 12-04-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

I'm not sure if there is sarcasm in this part of your post, but the hook needs to be involved in active fishing... While I've heard of CO's charging people for this, it isn't (or wasn't I guess...) against the law to have barbed hooks in your tackle box/possession.

x2.

niwrek · #**103** 12-04-2012, 02:07 PM

Well I'llbe damned!!!, Anyone charged after september 2011 may get there charge reversed.....and a refund. \talked to a Neil Brad.
Iam using barbs on Friday!!!!, He also said they where going to try for public feed back on pinching barbs. Time will tell

YeeHaw · #**104** 12-04-2012, 02:19 PM

Its true, I had to call and hear it myself. Cant wait for saturday to hit lake X or Y, and have a better shot at a good hookset. Off to wholsale for new trebles. For thoes not opposed to this, enjoy it while you can, I have a feeling it will be short lived.

tacklerunner · #**105** 12-04-2012, 03:08 PM

Would this not apply to all provinces then??? With the exception of salt water fisheries which are enforced by the Feds who may or may not have proper legislation either.

HunterDave · #**106** 12-04-2012, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

Would this not apply to all provinces then??? With the exception of salt water fisheries which are enforced by the Feds who may or may not have proper legislation either.

I doubt it. Barbless hooks would be a provincial decision. Alberta is the only province out of 4 that I have fished in that had the barbless reg.

AppleJax · #**107** 12-04-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I doubt it. Barbless hooks would be a provincial decision. Alberta is the only province out of 4 that I have fished in that had the barbless reg.

Dave, in BC it is barbless in all flowing water (rivers and streams)

brettk. · #**108** 12-04-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleJax

Dave, in BC it is barbless in all flowing water (rivers and streams)

Just curious, but in B.C. is it not also single barbless in rivers and streams

AppleJax · #**109** 12-04-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettk.

Just curious, but in B.C. is it not also single barbless in rivers and streams

Yes.

slivers86 · #**110** 12-04-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browning375

It was clearly pinched back the best she could, but he said he could still feel it.

It would be hard to convict if any attempt was made at bending the hook, and it wasn't still clearly untouched. Laws are enforced, but to be convicted, the officer/courts must prove you negligent in either not reading the regs/not knowing, or purposely not doing it... sounds like he/she was looking for tickets...

Quote:

Originally Posted by browning375

Needless to say i took it to court just to waste his time, and prove a point. To boot it was on a stocked fish pond paid by our tax dollars

What does taking a ticket to court wasting the CO's time do? Waste more taxdollars, take up court time, etc.
Take a ticket to court if you are not guilty, not to waste a CO's time. People moan and complain (not saying its you) about there not being enough out there checking people... welll... here's why!

BeeGuy · #**111** 12-04-2012, 04:16 PM

As browning stated, the hook was pinched, just not enough for an over zealous officer.

The point of taking it to court is to keep the officer honest and accountable.

Receiving a ticket does not make you guilty.

You are only guilty if found so by the court or if you plead guilty.

Ie. by paying a ticket you are pleading guilty

Unfortunately for Canadians, the costs associated with going to court are so high that many (most?) people who would like to challenge a ticket find it prohibitive.

browning375 · #**112** 12-04-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slivers86

It would be hard to convict if any attempt was made at bending the hook, and it wasn't still clearly untouched. Laws are enforced, but to be convicted, the officer/courts must prove you negligent in either not reading the regs/not knowing, or purposely not doing it... sounds like he/she was looking for tickets...

What does taking a ticket to court wasting the CO's time do? Waste more taxdollars, take up court time, etc.
Take a ticket to court if you are not guilty, not to waste a CO's time. People moan and complain (not saying its you) about there not being enough out there checking people... welll... here's why!

Back up the bus buddy! maybe get the full story before pointing fingers at people. The CO was off duty and in school when the court date happened. If the guy wasnt such a a##$ole about the situation there would be no problem. I felt very satisfied he had to drive 4hrs one way to appear in court for 10 mins, for such a stupid ticket when a warning would have been a way better choice. Part of these guys jobs are to help educate people not to just hand out tickets, a little understanding and compassion goes a long way.

My wife is still upset over the situation and how we were treated like criminals because of a stupid hook. It's not only scared her but also has made her less interested in the sport because of one bad experience with an over achieving CO !

tacklerunner · #**113** 12-04-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwrek

Well I'llbe damned!!!, Anyone charged after september 2011 may get there charge reversed.....and a refund. \talked to a Neil Brad.
Iam using barbs on Friday!!!!, He also said they where going to try for public feed back on pinching barbs. Time will tell

This question isn't directed at niwrek on any other poster. Just a general question.

Do you think it's fair to now refund funds collected in error to those convicted who knowingly broke the rules as per an apparent non binding AB regulation due to a legal error?

Law would dictate so but a perp still broke the law to the best of his/her knowledge at the time.

Wild&Free · #**114** 12-04-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

This question isn't directed at niwrek on any other poster. Just a general question.

Do you think it's fair to now refund funds collected in error to those convicted who knowingly broke the rules as per an apparent non binding AB regulation due to a legal error?

Law would dictate so but a perp still broke the law to the best of his/her knowledge at the time.

Ignorance is no defence, for those breaking the law and for those enforcing the law.

niwrek · #**115** 12-04-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

This question isn't directed at niwrek on any other poster. Just a general question.

Do you think it's fair to now refund funds collected in error to those convicted who knowingly broke the rules as per an apparent non binding AB regulation due to a legal error?

Law would dictate so but a perp still broke the law to the best of his/her knowledge at the time.

I take no offence to the comment as I agreewith it but there is always more to a story..... and my fingers and wrists are not up for the typing of it. But one out of 5 lines without pinched barbs, some one could surely see it was an oversight

:sEm

BeeGuy · #**116** 12-04-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

This question isn't directed at niwrek on any other poster. Just a general question.

Do you think it's fair to now refund funds collected in error to those convicted who knowingly broke the rules as per an apparent non binding AB regulation due to a legal error?

Law would dictate so but a perp still broke the law to the best of his/her knowledge at the time.

That's a pretty sticky situation.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the competency of our law makers and the government enforcement of those laws and both of their legitimacy, than I am concerned with barbs on a hook.

One is much more important than the other. IMO

tacklerunner · #**117** 12-04-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwrek

I take no offence to the comment as I agreewith it but there is always more to a story..... and my fingers and wrists are not up for the typing of it. But one out of 5 lines without pinched barbs, some one could surely see it was an oversight

:sEm

I know! I hate it when I'm fishing 6 holes and after drilling them all and baiting each line with 3 smelts, each with 3 trebles in it, I'm so tired I forget to pinch a barb. And then tip ups start going off and there's 2 or 3 fish on each line and I gotta start pulling them in and all I want to do is sit down and have a beer... Then to realize I'm outta beer and have to drive to the nearest liquor store knowing the fish will be exhausted by the time I get back and........... well it's a lot of work.

jk

tacklerunner · #**118** 12-04-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

Ignorance is no defence, for those breaking the law and for those enforcing the law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

That's a pretty sticky situation.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the competency of our law makers and the government enforcement of those laws and both of their legitimacy, than I am concerned with barbs on a hook.

One is much more important than the other. IMO

Agreed. Be a shame to dip into the enforcement training fund to give back to the guilty perps.

niwrek · #**119** 12-04-2012, 05:47 PM

Lol,Iknew that was coming.....

BeeGuy · #**120** 12-04-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

I know! I hate it when I'm fishing 6 holes and after drilling them all and baiting each line with 3 smelts, each with 3 trebles in it, I'm so tired I forget to pinch a barb. And then tip ups start going off and there's 2 or 3 fish on each line and I gotta start pulling them in and all I want to do is sit down and have a beer... Then to realize I'm outta beer and have to drive to the nearest liquor store knowing the fish will be exhausted by the time I get back and........... well it's a lot of work.

jk

SO I guess PCR has good ice then?