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  #61  
Old 11-11-2020, 02:16 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
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"We're from the Government and we're here to help you"
Of course they will gladly relinguish their present position with the ATA and save some money. Their present staff will not be released, just "relocated"..
When giving this "power" to the ATA, they will be smiling and giving the ATA, all the rope they need to do it to themselves....Definitely "here to help us"
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  #62  
Old 11-12-2020, 09:11 AM
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209x50 209x50 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TrapperMike View Post
I hope you address your letters properly Dave. I believe that the person who will be reading you letter is known as the MP’s flunky. Please address accordingly.
The 'flunky" as you so kindly put it is a member here and is reading this thread.

If you take this thread by itself with no past history context Hunter Dave is being very a rational person in the discussion. Backing his opinion with costs and information from other provinces. Not mocking and name calling. I don't disagree with him. I know lots of old trappers who know nothing else and to whom $300 will beyond their reach. What then? Does the ATA seize their trapline? To many of us 300 bucks isn't much but there are plenty of trappers I know on the pension that do not have that laying around. Add to that on going training and courses and and more hoops and red tape to jump through, WTH! Is the ATA going to make trapping just a rich man's sport?
You can all laugh and name call all you want but I'm not in support of what I see so far and just because someone says it is good for me doesn't make it so. Trudeau says he is looking out for me everyday and you can see how that is working out.
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  #63  
Old 11-12-2020, 12:08 PM
cody j cody j is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The 'flunky" as you so kindly put it is a member here and is reading this thread.

If you take this thread by itself with no past history context Hunter Dave is being very a rational person in the discussion. Backing his opinion with costs and information from other provinces. Not mocking and name calling. I don't disagree with him. I know lots of old trappers who know nothing else and to whom $300 will beyond their reach. What then? Does the ATA seize their trapline? To many of us 300 bucks isn't much but there are plenty of trappers I know on the pension that do not have that laying around. Add to that on going training and courses and and more hoops and red tape to jump through, WTH! Is the ATA going to make trapping just a rich man's sport?
You can all laugh and name call all you want but I'm not in support of what I see so far and just because someone says it is good for me doesn't make it so. Trudeau says he is looking out for me everyday and you can see how that is working out.
I agree. For myself reading this thread without knowing much about the ATA and it’s politics, and not knowing about the personal history between the different people posting
I get the impression that different viewpoints or opinions are not welcomed by ATA members. That’s what I get from reading this thread but maybe I’m wrong.
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  #64  
Old 11-12-2020, 01:13 PM
Redhorse Ranch Redhorse Ranch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The 'flunky" as you so kindly put it is a member here and is reading this thread.

If you take this thread by itself with no past history context Hunter Dave is being very a rational person in the discussion. Backing his opinion with costs and information from other provinces. Not mocking and name calling. I don't disagree with him. I know lots of old trappers who know nothing else and to whom $300 will beyond their reach. What then? Does the ATA seize their trapline? To many of us 300 bucks isn't much but there are plenty of trappers I know on the pension that do not have that laying around. Add to that on going training and courses and and more hoops and red tape to jump through, WTH! Is the ATA going to make trapping just a rich man's sport?
You can all laugh and name call all you want but I'm not in support of what I see so far and just because someone says it is good for me doesn't make it so. Trudeau says he is looking out for me everyday and you can see how that is working out.
I don't give a damn what anybody thinks of Hunter Dave. He's not the issue. He's asking questions that nobody wants to answer here.
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  #65  
Old 11-13-2020, 12:24 AM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
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And just listen to that Trappingman go.......123 posts and he has all the f###g answers....We've seen your kind before.. Sounding like the bobbleheads GK had on the string...With that group, your opinion was only the right one if it was theirs....and let the downfall begin....
..with only 92 to your count, you, at Red horse Ranch, seem to have a much better handle on matters and already have been able to read between the lines..
There can be a lot of times when on this site, that more views are seen and digested than at many ATA mtgs, director meetings included...been there and seen that.
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  #66  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:47 AM
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HunterDave HunterDave is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The 'flunky" as you so kindly put it is a member here and is reading this thread.

If you take this thread by itself with no past history context Hunter Dave is being very a rational person in the discussion. Backing his opinion with costs and information from other provinces. Not mocking and name calling. I don't disagree with him. I know lots of old trappers who know nothing else and to whom $300 will beyond their reach. What then? Does the ATA seize their trapline? To many of us 300 bucks isn't much but there are plenty of trappers I know on the pension that do not have that laying around. Add to that on going training and courses and and more hoops and red tape to jump through, WTH! Is the ATA going to make trapping just a rich man's sport?
You can all laugh and name call all you want but I'm not in support of what I see so far and just because someone says it is good for me doesn't make it so. Trudeau says he is looking out for me everyday and you can see how that is working out.
Wow! You just impressed the hell out of me, Richard. I wanted to walk away for a bit but seriously, you nailed it.

It sounds like you are starting to understand where I’ve been coming from all these years......as annoying as I was.

Every time the ATA increases the cost to trap they are raising the bar for people that NEED to trap just to get by. More people are shutout of trapping......the wrong people......the ones that need to hunt and trap just to survive.

Like you stated, trapping isn’t supposed to be a rich man’s “sport”.
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Last edited by HunterDave; 11-13-2020 at 01:53 AM.
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  #67  
Old 11-13-2020, 09:50 AM
dugh dugh is offline
 
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It seems like the cart is waaaay in front of the horse on this one.
Stay safe, healthy and have a great season.
Doug
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  #68  
Old 11-13-2020, 05:05 PM
TrapperMike TrapperMike is offline
 
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Just curious Dave. Not saying your wrong but who needs to trap to survive.
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  #69  
Old 11-13-2020, 05:11 PM
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35 whelen 35 whelen is offline
 
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I'm guessing nobody needs to trap to survive nowadays everything else cost too much just to get there to trap it's a dying tradition just like hunting.

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  #70  
Old 11-18-2020, 03:52 PM
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crazyfish crazyfish is offline
 
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I know a few old timers in my area that the trapping cash adds enough to his pension and old age benefit that it makes a difference . Going to 300$ certainly knocks the shine off the year end totals.

I paid my money , took the course , pay my year ATA support fee , have trapped every year since. I've been to the ATA AGM's when I wasn't stuck at work . I'm not a big fan of a 400% increase for my resident license.

I can't honestly say what an appropriate amount is for a yearly resident license , or an RFMA license. I'm sure there are some associated costs , maybe a new job position for getting all important/ required info to the GOV'T in a timely manner. I'd like to see how this translates into a fair balance for trappers and the ATA.

It looks like the staunch supporters of the ATA aren't happy with Dave questioning things , but I really do think that there are a lot of unanswered questions I'd like to see answered before I jump on the band wagon. I'm sure there are some $ savings for the gov't , and an arm's length association may make the gov'ts public relations issues easier to deal with .........pass it on to the ATA ! LOL

I'd certainly like to have babercombie come back to this and provide a little feedback and clear the air
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  #71  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:33 PM
pikeslayer22 pikeslayer22 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfish View Post
I know a few old timers in my area that the trapping cash adds enough to his pension and old age benefit that it makes a difference . Going to 300$ certainly knocks the shine off the year end totals.

I paid my money , took the course , pay my year ATA support fee , have trapped every year since. I've been to the ATA AGM's when I wasn't stuck at work . I'm not a big fan of a 400% increase for my resident license.

I can't honestly say what an appropriate amount is for a yearly resident license , or an RFMA license. I'm sure there are some associated costs , maybe a new job position for getting all important/ required info to the GOV'T in a timely manner. I'd like to see how this translates into a fair balance for trappers and the ATA.

It looks like the staunch supporters of the ATA aren't happy with Dave questioning things , but I really do think that there are a lot of unanswered questions I'd like to see answered before I jump on the band wagon. I'm sure there are some $ savings for the gov't , and an arm's length association may make the gov'ts public relations issues easier to deal with .........pass it on to the ATA ! LOL

I'd certainly like to have babercombie come back to this and provide a little feedback and clear the air
If you look at the “staunch” supporters they all have one thing in common
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  #72  
Old 11-19-2020, 01:00 AM
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HunterDave HunterDave is offline
 
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If anyone wants to know the path that the ATA wants to take you need to get your hands on the, "Detailed Business Case for Alberta’s Trapping Program"......and the the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the ATA and AEP would help clarify things as well. These should be made available to ATA members but I didn't have any luck with getting my hands on either of them when I was a member. There was always an excuse about them being re-written, etc.

Although I haven't read either document I am aware of some of the contents of the Business Case. The contents of the document deals with RFMA's NOT Resident Trappers. So, where is this increase in Resident Trapper's licensing coming from? Never mind, I already know.

I'm going to guess that if the ATA is going to include licensing for Resident Trappers, what applies to RFMA Trappers will also apply to Resident Trappers.

The Business Case.....

- Annual submission of an RFMA plan

- Fur harvest records must be submitted each year along with fur receipts/returns as well.

- identifies the minimum standards by which a trapper would have to abide to retain his “active” status.

- Trappers will also be required to maintain a “minimum level of competency” that includes upgraded training

- The ATA would have the ability to remove delinquent RFMA holders and those who use traplines for purposes other than trapping. Trappers that failed to meet those standards would “be ineligible to hold a license”.

Anyone remember what the Bios inexplicably came up with "right out of the blue" with all the mandatory courses, fur receipts, etc in order to take over an RFMA? Sound similar?

The increase in cost for trapping licenses, although concerning, is merely the tip of the iceberg. The REAL money lies with the ATA being able to define what courses are mandatory to take in order to keep your license/trapline, how often you have to take them AND setting the prices for them. If you don't, you lose your license and/or trapline. That sounds a lot like extortion to me......pay me or you're hooped.

Don't count on the ATA membership to quash this because some of them will undoubtedly go along with this nonsense. Take the time to write the Minister and let him know what your thoughts are about the ATA taking over the licensing and jacking up the cost. There's a lot more at stake than just $55 extra per year.
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Last edited by HunterDave; 11-19-2020 at 01:13 AM.
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  #73  
Old 11-19-2020, 08:24 AM
dugh dugh is offline
 
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Maybe it's just me but I don't see a problem with that business case.
To me trapping is a form of conservation and seeing a trapline used for trapping is a good thing. There is no status quo, move forward or languish .
Thank for listening. Stay safe.
Doug
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  #74  
Old 11-19-2020, 11:37 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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"Oh my gosh" looks like Dave just nailed it with the ATA Business Case. How anyone can write a Business Plan for $20 marten, $15 beaver and 50 cent squirrels and make it pay is a joke.
Trappers got higher dollar prices in the 40-50's for most fur when a dollar bought 20 times what it does today.
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  #75  
Old 11-23-2020, 07:33 AM
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209x50 209x50 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugh View Post
Maybe it's just me but I don't see a problem with that business case.
To me trapping is a form of conservation and seeing a trapline used for trapping is a good thing. There is no status quo, move forward or languish .
Thank for listening. Stay safe.
Doug
It's just you. I see a huge problem with that business plan. And I trap hard every minute of the trapping season.
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