6.5 Grendel - Recovered ELD-M - Large Muley Buck

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...165590&slide=0

such a big difference eh?

https://www.longrangehunting.com/att...-x-jpg.165590/

trying to get the image directly to post for convenience, lets try this



so they are 6.5 bullets there, the 143 eld-x and 147 eld-m are the same dimensionally, the eld-x loses some weight for trade in some copper, which would likely be fantastic when you start running higher velocities like in the PRC...the slower Creedmoor or even slower yet Grendel velocities the Eld-m are fantastic...or as the long range hunting crowds have discovered the Eld-m is for them too as they shoot so far to get those velocities down and get better performance

so...get tougher when you go faster, but moderate velocity cartridges at normal hunting distances...tough to beat the eld-m regardless how it's marketed

Looks like it’s enough of a difference so that the eldx doesn’t peel back to the base on low velocity shots
The ogive looks really thin on those hornadys
Eldm continues all the way to the base

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...165590&slide=0

such a big difference eh?

https://www.longrangehunting.com/att...-x-jpg.165590/

trying to get the image directly to post for convenience, lets try this



so they are 6.5 bullets there, the 143 eld-x and 147 eld-m are the same dimensionally, the eld-x loses some weight for trade in some copper, which would likely be fantastic when you start running higher velocities like in the PRC...the slower Creedmoor or even slower yet Grendel velocities the Eld-m are fantastic...or as the long range hunting crowds have discovered the Eld-m is for them too as they shoot so far to get those velocities down and get better performance

so...get tougher when you go faster, but moderate velocity cartridges at normal hunting distances...tough to beat the eld-m regardless how it's marketed

Sooo . now you change the subject to bullets, not cartridges. Most of us use, or have used, all of the bullets you mention, but in different cartridges.
They all work, under one condition or another but they all will encounter varying degrees of failure, depending on the user.
Using Bell as an example really doesnt mean anything either. You werent there.

A sample of one or two doesnt cut it. Try 20 or 30 for starters and then form a somewhat valid opinion. Like, why do they perform better than a partition or the old Core Lokd at game under 400 yds. Its pretty hard to validate anyones claim of a great hunting bullet. Whatever appears to work best in an individuals cartridge under a given set of circumstances on a variety of game animals will do it. I didnt realize we were all so handicapped before the Internet & You Tube.

[58thecat]

and all I am saying is you can kill game with bullets designed for match...but...yup the dreaded but it will bite you in the arse sooner or later and a game animal will not be taken ethically....bullet manufacturers have people in place designing/testing for a very good reason...we owe it to the animals we pursue to ensure we lower the probabilities of wounding them...up to and including choosing the right manufactured designed bullet for the game animal intended for....that is solely our responsibility as ethical hunters.

[buckman]

I guess it comes down to what works for you...until it doesn't, and your animal gets away wounded and perhaps lost.

All bullets and calibers can kill,some seem to do it better for some people, than for others.

I like The NP, any animal I have shot with properly has died very soon after being hit,its my exclusive hunting bullet now.

I have cut up many hundreds of big game animals(commercially) and many more of my own and for other hunters.

I have recovered probably half a dozen or more cup and core bullet remnants encapsulated by tissue in animals who survived the shot. Never found any bonded or other well constructed ones though.

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

and all I am saying is you can kill game with bullets designed for match...but...yup the dreaded but it will bite you in the arse sooner or later and a game animal will not be taken ethically....bullet manufacturers have people in place designing/testing for a very good reason...we owe it to the animals we pursue to ensure we lower the probabilities of wounding them...up to and including choosing the right manufactured designed bullet for the game animal intended for....that is solely our responsibility as ethical hunters.

This is the exact point that I was trying to make in post #21,

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

and all I am saying is you can kill game with bullets designed for match...but...yup the dreaded but it will bite you in the arse sooner or later and a game animal will not be taken ethically....bullet manufacturers have people in place designing/testing for a very good reason...we owe it to the animals we pursue to ensure we lower the probabilities of wounding them...up to and including choosing the right manufactured designed bullet for the game animal intended for....that is solely our responsibility as ethical hunters.

Totally agree ... and yes, you can kill game animals with a match bullet . In fact ,Bobby Boychuck (AO member) was the very first individual to inform Walt Berger that his Match VLD worked flawlessly on African Plains Game. Berger verified this claim in a resulting African trip and the rest is history. Berger changed the Yellow box to Orange and now we have a very successful hunting bullet in an orange colored pkg.

[Stinky Coyote]

most other bullets outside the 6.5's i get the arguments, as they start with so so sd's to begin with so you want to retain as much of that while doing work as you can, but when you start with sd's that are typically similar or beyond most calibers 'heavy for cal' then that affords you a lot more flexibility at moderate velocities to relax on the bullet construction quite a bit, high sd match bullets at moderate impact velocities do fantastic work, argue that all you like, if the gunwerks crew preferred the eld-m performance to the eld-x performance for a different reason than i just explained then i'm all ears

the 6.5 Grendel will never need anything but hornady black 123gr eld-m factory ammo for anything you want to with a bullet on our game inside 300 yards, unless you're trying to break both front shoulders of heavy game on the regular then the Grendel isn't really the best choice anyway, you'll be looking at heavier bullets for that and therefore different drivers to get them up to speed

also, i will never say this is better than other hunt constructed bullets like partitions etc. you don't argue with long track records of successful performance, you'll be hard pressed to find any bad news of on game success with this ammo in this cartridge either, and i'm just explaining why, don't be running out and loading up a 6.5 prc with 123 eld-m's and think they will be the best elk thing going...that will be too fast for the construction

but whatever you're shooting, if it's slow-ish like a .308, and you run heavy for caliber bullets that push .250 and higher sd's....well, thats a good recipe for ballistic tip, eld-m, a-max type bullets

i didn't change the subject either, whoever posted the hornady literature did

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Just goes to prove you don't need an artillery piece to shoot big bucks. Wish more folks would learn this lesson and teach young hunters how to shoot rather then how to flinch. But I have been on this merry go round before...and the haters will keep on hating...the little gun that CAN.

Congrates to you and your son .. job well done.

Muchos Gracias. This a good time to quote your post.

Seems i'm on the merry go round again.

Just wanted to pass along some findings, i didn't need to make this post yall but a half dozen animal sample isn't so bad, i guess now i gotta take 20-30 critters with this cartridge/bullet combo before i'll know what i'm doing wrong.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Muchos Gracias. This a good time to quote your post.

Seems i'm on the merry go round again.

Just wanted to pass along some findings, i didn't need to make this post yall but a half dozen animal sample isn't so bad, i guess now i gotta take 20-30 critters with this cartridge/bullet combo before i'll know what i'm doing wrong.

Ya well every post you make your claiming a Grendel eldm combo as the best thing on the planet. For any situation
It’s not, everyone knows this

I’m waiting for your next post saying the Grendel cured covid 19
That’s how ridiculous some of your posts sound to me

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Muchos Gracias. This a good time to quote your post.

Seems i'm on the merry go round again.

Just wanted to pass along some findings, i didn't need to make this post yall but a half dozen animal sample isn't so bad, i guess now i gotta take 20-30 critters with this cartridge/bullet combo before i'll know what i'm doing wrong.

Nobody said you were wrong, but when you get to 20 with that combo let us know how you really made out.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

most other bullets outside the 6.5's i get the arguments, as they start with so so sd's to begin with so you want to retain as much of that while doing work as you can, but when you start with sd's that are typically similar or beyond most calibers 'heavy for cal' then that affords you a lot more flexibility at moderate velocities to relax on the bullet construction quite a bit, high sd match bullets at moderate impact velocities do fantastic work, argue that all you like, if the gunwerks crew preferred the eld-m performance to the eld-x performance for a different reason than i just explained then i'm all ears

the 6.5 Grendel will never need anything but hornady black 123gr eld-m factory ammo for anything you want to with a bullet on our game inside 300 yards, unless you're trying to break both front shoulders of heavy game on the regular then the Grendel isn't really the best choice anyway, you'll be looking at heavier bullets for that and therefore different drivers to get them up to speed

also, i will never say this is better than other hunt constructed bullets like partitions etc. you don't argue with long track records of successful performance, you'll be hard pressed to find any bad news of on game success with this ammo in this cartridge either, and i'm just explaining why, don't be running out and loading up a 6.5 prc with 123 eld-m's and think they will be the best elk thing going...that will be too fast for the construction

but whatever you're shooting, if it's slow-ish like a .308, and you run heavy for caliber bullets that push .250 and higher sd's....well, thats a good recipe for ballistic tip, eld-m, a-max type bullets

i didn't change the subject either, whoever posted the hornady literature did

Old technology vs new.... https://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Old technology vs new.... https://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0

that video is awesome, some smiles per miles there! those pizza cutters could sure get it done, i wish i could find some 37x11.5r17's or 285's that go that tall...i'm down with some old tech for sure, got me a solid front axle 4x pickmeup with a stick shift riding on 37's with 4.88's...just wish they weren't 12.5" wide, finally all smiles per miles again

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Nobody said you were wrong, but when you get to 20 with that combo let us know how you really made out.

i probably will, although there are so many recorded kills on 6.5 Grendel forums i think those samples would be far more telling than my 20 when we get there

it'd be nice to see some nicer stainless options in this chambering, part of my behind the scenes reasons for keeping the world up to speed on the Grendel awesomeness

ruger hawkeye .204 stainless walnut, how sweet would that be in 6.5g? can shoot more than coyotes with it...yay, c'mon ruger, what were you thinking there?

sako 85 xs action...you've done the ppc before, do it again, this time put the 6.5g headstamp on it, a stainless 85 with the walnut red recoil pad would be the dogs dangly bits for sure

the cz is nice, the ruger ranch a solid workhorse, the howa's have good metal but crap magazine and everything not metal...where's some kimber montana action or anything else stainless, next level, mountain etc...the cartridge deserves it, chambering these nice rifles in .204/.223 is almost insulting when you have the 6.5 Grendel as a choice, what the absolute f...k, seriously...the .204/.223 are useless beyond yappies and p-dogs, waited from 2005 to 2018 to finally see a cz grendel offering from the factory, that's a long azz wait, how much longer to see a sako or the top tear bolt actions? cooper anyone? they chamber some AR length stuff too...the Grendel couldn't make more sense, not stainless but dang they are sure nice, i don't get it, anyone chambering AR length cartridges should have the 6.5 Grendel (and new 6mm Arc) at the very top of their chambering lists, watch them boogie off the shelf with the added versatility over those pesky little varmint bores

the daydreaming aside, wonderful use of 30 grains of powder and 123 grains of lead, an extremely versatile combo, join the revolution

[Dubious]

Dont hunt with match bullets. Your job as the hunter is to kill the animal as quickly and efficiently as possible match bullets are not designed for hunting, there are far better choices. Keep that stuff for paper.

[Stinky Coyote]

I’ve killed a lot of shat, a lot with bow, a lot with bang sticks, I’m not just going off a small sample of experience here. I’m not some newb trying something out for the first time. The eld-m has a solid rep for hunting. In the 6.5 123’s for the Grendel the sst has no advantage. It’s just marketing mumbo jumbo.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

I’ve killed a lot of shat, a lot with bow, a lot with bang sticks, I’m not just going off a small sample of experience here. I’m not some newb trying something out for the first time. The eld-m has a solid rep for hunting. In the 6.5 123’s for the Grendel the sst has no advantage. It’s just marketing mumbo jumbo.

So then share your hunting story with your son and leave the 6.5 Grendel and Eld-m marketing mumbo jumbo off of the forum. The fact that you didnt put this story in hunting discussion and put this thread in guns and ammo discussion with subject line eld-m recovered shows your intent with having yet another bullet conversation. If its all mumbo jumbo, leave it be

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Nobody said you were wrong, but when you get to 20 with that combo let us know how you really made out.

And what I was referring to was there is a reason bullet manufactures have certain bullets listed as match grade and not hunting grade....not saying it can't be done but dam a 22lr can take big game too.....just not ethically and that's is the only point that matters....another one of those situations that the regs/laws don't say we can't so people do u til this spreads like wild fire and falls unto,the wrong ears and all of a sudden due to bad choices it is now against the law to use any match grade bullet on big game.....that is how it all starts....this is in our control for now.....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

I’ve killed a lot of shat, a lot with bow, a lot with bang sticks, I’m not just going off a small sample of experience here. I’m not some newb trying something out for the first time. The eld-m has a solid rep for hunting. In the 6.5 123’s for the Grendel the sst has no advantage. It’s just marketing mumbo jumbo.

But your stearing the so called newbs in the wrong direction....you say you have taking lots of game in various situations with various weapons etc have the so called composure to place the thin jacketed match grade bullets precisely but now you have forgotten what is was like to have your first big game animal in your sight or are just the every five years or so hunter....you get a rush....perhaps a little too far forward and hit a shoulder...or read it on the i telnet and try it on a thicker bone structured animal....wounded game....and I bet to say that this happens even with experienced hunters too.....bad enough we all fubble a shot....we are sick to our guts and rightfully so but we need to use the proper equipment to ethically take out the animal as fast as possible minimizing pain and suffering etc....match grade bullets is simply put a bad choice.

[58thecat]

Best Big-Game Loads/bullets for the 6.5 Creedmoor?
Barnes 127-grain VOR-TX LR. ...
Federal Premium 135-grain Berger Hybrid Hunter. ...
Hornady 143-grain Precision Hunter ELD-X. ...
Hornady Outfitter 120-grain GMX. ...
Norma 130-grain Swift Scirocco II. ...
Nosler 140-grain AccuBond Trophy Grade. ...
Nosler 120-grain E-Tip. ...
SIG Sauer 130-grain Elite Hunter Tipped.

perhaps some experimenting with these might pull you away from match grade bullets....

[Stinky Coyote]

6.5 Grendel - Hunting - Factory Ammo

Fusion 120gr @ 2600 fps
Barnes 115gr @ 2590 (ttsx bt)
Hornady 123gr @ 2580 (sst)
Rem 120gr @ 2590 (hpbt)
Underwood 110gr @ 2800 (controlled chaos)
Nosler Trophy 129gr @ 2350 (LR accubond)

between the Fusion/Barnes would be a couple top choices that shouldn't be too hard to find for some tough bullets for those wanting more delayed controlled expansion performance from factory ammo

i'll consider trying something else if i see things i don't like for what we hunt and how we hunt

[58thecat]

my mistake …. Grendel….but you get the jest...some great hunting bullets out there for your rig.

[Stinky Coyote]

i do, all good

[kujoseto]

That 129gr Nosler ABLR sounds like something interesting to try

[Stinky Coyote]

So this thread helped inspire a full necro. The core was likely right there, finding is really a priority. But since we got a little heat here I put some time into the next necro which happened to keep the bullet inside also...just.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=390827

[6.5 shooter]

Just a note to clear things up .. I am not saying a Match bullet is a good choice as a hunting bullet....BUT you would not use a 30-30, 150gr. round nose lead tip hunting bullet in a 300 Rum...or any other high velocity cartridge. It was never constructed for that kind of velocity

There is a BIG correlation between speed and bullet construction. Most "hunters" demand that their rifle shoot at speeds well beyond the capabilities of thin jacketed cup and core bullet....But some of the more modest velocity calibers (6.5 Grendal) can and do shoot these ("softer) bullet very well and impact velocities don't shred them like higher velocity rounds would.