Lakes drying up

[jungleboy]

Why is it that so many lakes seem to be drying up ,especially in the center to eastern part of the province? Is this Oil activity related ,or plain old lack of rain, or are they being choked out by excessive weed growth from fertilizer run off. We have looked on and off for a lake property over the past few years and it seems that so many of the lakes where there is something remotely affordable have the same issue they have dropped by 10 to 15 ft and the fish are near extinct.

[JB_AOL]

Do you mean Sloughs? There are very few actual Lakes in Alberta.

But yes, it has to do with irrigation and water usage. It's also the reason so many "lakes" have blue algae in alot of water bodies.. Lack of proper water flow (in and out of lake) and runoff from farmers fields.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Why is it that so many lakes seem to be drying up ,especially in the center to eastern part of the province? Is this Oil activity related ,or plain old lack of rain, or are they being choked out by excessive weed growth from fertilizer run off. We have looked on and off for a lake property over the past few years and it seems that so many of the lakes where there is something remotely affordable have the same issue they have dropped by 10 to 15 ft and the fish are near extinct.

LOL

Why on Earth would anyone even postulate oil and gas activity is drying lakes?

Rain and snow are seasonal and subject to many weather and climate related factors such as the jet stream.

Lack of moisture in the fields and country side can be mostly attributed to the past practice of draining and filling in marshes, sloughs and small ponds.

Those catch basins help keep a higher water table and prevent flushing of rain and snow melt downstream.

You then need to look to the lake specifically. Is the lake you are looking at controlled by a diversion dam? Are their farmlands being irrigated by the lake water?

Weeds don't dry up a lake however over thousands of years lakes go from oligotrophic to mesotrophic to eutrophic. They naturally fill in. Beavers in an area also help control water and are critical to the natural environment.

Likely the area you are looking at is impacted by season precipitation variability as well as lack of sloughs and ponds.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Oil & Gas companies use lake water to stimulate wells. Beavers will help lake if they build dam down stream from lake if upstream water gone. Most lakes are drying up because the forest has been logged either for timber or to clear farmland. Warmer summers do not help as much more water evaporating now.

[EZM]

One answer will not be the same when addressing water level changes specific to each watershed.

Even within a specific watershed there are tables/basins that could be effected by drainage (adding or removing dams/embankments), precipitation, agricultural use, and/or oil/gas use.

I can tell you, however, the water use attributed to oil/gas consumption would be a very small overall impact, almost negligible really.

Typically these changes, where some of the changes can be attributed to oil/gas use, occur as a result of water removed which effectively lowers the water table and does not allow recovery - but you are talking very isolated and very specific areas which add to "not much" in the overall picture.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by EZM

One answer will not be the same when addressing water level changes specific to each watershed.

.

Exactly, Wabamun is about as high as it has been since 1930.
Lots of factors

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Oil & Gas companies use lake water to stimulate wells. Beavers will help lake if they build dam down stream from lake if upstream water gone. Most lakes are drying up because the forest has been logged either for timber or to clear farmland. Warmer summers do not help as much more water evaporating now.

Which lake and company has a withdrawal licence given the lake level is falling?

[thenaturalwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Which lake and company has a withdrawal licence given the lake level is falling?

Are you asking if Oil&Gas companies pump fresh water from lakes and rivers in Alberta?

[chasingtail]

Typical frac on a Duvernay well in Central Alberta uses 75,000 m3 of fresh water. Hundreds of these wells will be drilled over the next few years. That's a lot of fresh water being sucked out of our rivers, lakes and sloughs.

[HunterDave]

A lot of the lakes around here only have Spring runoff and rain to fill them. They are basically big potholes in the ground that fill up with water and then spend all summer evaporating. The lack of snow up until this year has definitely not been good for them and some of the more shallow ones are even drying up. Sandy Lake is a prime example and properties that were once lakefront are now sitting next to a puddle. Even larger lakes like Lac Ste Anne and Lac Lanonne have receded quite a lot. Several winters with a lot of snow is required to top them back up.

[zims23]

Lac Sante was up nicely last summer. We lost a lot of beach. I am hoping for another good season this summer with all this snow. I have been at the lake for the last 5 years, last year was the best for water.

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Typical frac on a Duvernay well in Central Alberta uses 75,000 m3 of fresh water. Hundreds of these wells will be drilled over the next few years. That's a lot of fresh water being sucked out of our rivers, lakes and sloughs.

Wow! That I’d like to see. The biggest superfracs I worked on with Baker in southern Alberta a couple years ago only took 9000 cu metres. And they were huge.

[Oldan Grumpi]

In some places the effect is startling. A couple of summers ago I went into the East Arm of Great Slave Lake, leaving from Ft. Resolution.

I hadn't been to some of those places in 20 years, and in that time the lake level has dropped more than 2 m.

Nagle Bay, for example, is no longer navigable - it's nothing but weeds in a foot of water. The Steamboat Channel from the Slave River into the lake is barely a 'jetboat' channel; I hit bottom coming into the lake from the channel. Stoney Island is so close to no longer being an island, that you can walk across to the mainland in rubber boots. We used to tie up 40' boats behind it to wait out bad weather.

The mouth of the Taltson is unrecognizable, it's now a maze of weed beds. The mouth of the Thubun is the same; we used to go up to the first rapids with a diesel 40 footer; now I couldn't get there with a kicker on a tin boat. At the Rocher River settlement, we used to tie up and step off onto level ground, now I can't even see onto the flat when standing up in my boat and I'm 6'3". It sure didn't feel like a 'homecoming'.

According to my calculations, the lake has lost an astonishing 55 CU. KMS of water in two decades. That's climate change well illustrated - but it's also a continuation of history.
Look at Google Earth some time, and pay attention to the historical shore lines around the south side of the lake - it's obvious that at one time, the shore line was all the way back to Enterprise! What has happened in the last 20 years is nothing in the full context of history.

p.s. There wasn't anyone fracking anything when the shore line departed Enterprise a few thousand years ago.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Typical frac on a Duvernay well in Central Alberta uses 75,000 m3 of fresh water. Hundreds of these wells will be drilled over the next few years. That's a lot of fresh water being sucked out of our rivers, lakes and sloughs.

To look at it another way, even if 100 wells at 75,000 m3 each (7,500,000 m3 total) ALL came out of Wabamun that would only lower the lake level 3.6". Not implying that is not substantial but the lake can go up and down a couple of feet in a year on it's own.

[Talking moose]

20 years of drought will do that

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by thenaturalwoodsman

Are you asking if Oil&Gas companies pump fresh water from lakes and rivers in Alberta?

No. I am saying a lake with insufficient volume to satisfy a small percentage use by oil and gas which in turn causes the lake level to fall is not possible.

There are very strict and specific rules in place to allow for surface water extraction for oil and gas use.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Typical frac on a Duvernay well in Central Alberta uses 75,000 m3 of fresh water. Hundreds of these wells will be drilled over the next few years. That's a lot of fresh water being sucked out of our rivers, lakes and sloughs.

Another way to look at it is that controlled withdrawal has zero impact as global warmists feel the ocean levels are rising. Fracs are good.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

20 years of drought will do that

Actually closer to 30 years,,, 1980 - 2010 were three consecutive decades of significantly lower than average precipitation.

[lmtada]

Northern Saskatchewan (Waskesui) has higher water levels than I have seen in 40 years. Water levels down by Wynyard, foam lake have wiped out roads/highways. Head further south Weyburn west towards Speedy Creek (Dry). Moisture is regional.

[Drewski Canuck]

if anyone hunted Beaverhill Lake in the 1980's, you will remember that there was a ...... lake back then.

Go there now and see all the grassland.

Back in the early 1900's, I am told by the old timers, that Beaverhill Lake was dry then as well. NOT GLOBAL WARMING!!!.

However, there are lakes that did lose 8 - 15 FOW in the East Central part of Alberta. Skeleton, Mann, Missawawi, etc.

Water Table is key to a lake filling up. Water seeps in, and recharges the water table. Until the water table is restored, lake levels do not recover.

2007 there was 18" of rain in the summer around St. Paul. Lakes in the area came up 2"???? all the run off should have had those lakes at 5' at least!

Water Wells did recover in the area over time though!!

As for wanting cheap lake front in Alberta, on a good lake that does not suffer evaporation, good luck.

I bought in 2006 at Calling Lake. Paid $92,500 for 1.5 acres lake front deeded to the water.

1/2 acre lake lots around me now go for $250,000.00 with environmental set back of 100 ' on those titles, being water front lots.

Now for fun, go to Sylvan Lake. In the mid 2000's, you paid $10,000 a foot for a lake front lot (50 ' lake front = $500,000!!!!)

Forensic tale: Go to a good lake, pay what you have to. Smile and shut up. Best investment you ever made.

Most lake lots pass in the family, and rarely go on the open market. When they do, there is such demand, even these days, that you will get your money back, and then some.

That is what you are really complaining about, affordable lake lot on a dried up lake.

Drewski

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

if anyone hunted Beaverhill Lake in the 1980's, you will remember that there was a ...... lake back then.

Go there now and see all the grassland.

Back in the early 1900's, I am told by the old timers, that Beaverhill Lake was dry then as well. NOT GLOBAL WARMING!!!.

However, there are lakes that did lose 8 - 15 FOW in the East Central part of Alberta. Skeleton, Mann, Missawawi, etc.

Water Table is key to a lake filling up. Water seeps in, and recharges the water table. Until the water table is restored, lake levels do not recover.

2007 there was 18" of rain in the summer around St. Paul. Lakes in the area came up 2"???? all the run off should have had those lakes at 5' at least!

Water Wells did recover in the area over time though!!

As for wanting cheap lake front in Alberta, on a good lake that does not suffer evaporation, good luck.

I bought in 2006 at Calling Lake. Paid $92,500 for 1.5 acres lake front deeded to the water.

1/2 acre lake lots around me now go for $250,000.00 with environmental set back of 100 ' on those titles, being water front lots.

Now for fun, go to Sylvan Lake. In the mid 2000's, you paid $10,000 a foot for a lake front lot (50 ' lake front = $500,000!!!!)

Forensic tale: Go to a good lake, pay what you have to. Smile and shut up. Best investment you ever made.

Most lake lots pass in the family, and rarely go on the open market. When they do, there is such demand, even these days, that you will get your money back, and then some.

That is what you are really complaining about, affordable lake lot on a dried up lake.

Drewski

Actually not complaining , I am well aware of how property values work when it comes to recreational lake lots. I was more curious as to what others thoughts were on this problem. I have looked at many lots where the owner tells me "ya the water used to come up to the boat house there" that is now 100m from the shore. Buying a lake lot on a lake that may not be there for my grandkids to enjoy doesn't seem like money well spent.

As for wondering if oil and Gas have an effect, seemed like a legit concern to me , Oil and gas uses lots of water

[35 whelen]

Can anyone answer this I was told that oil and gas do not have to pay for any water they take out of lakes rivers streams is that true

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[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Typical frac on a Duvernay well in Central Alberta uses 75,000 m3 of fresh water. Hundreds of these wells will be drilled over the next few years. That's a lot of fresh water being sucked out of our rivers, lakes and sloughs.

That would equal about 1" of rain that would fall on your local Safeway parking lot

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Actually closer to 30 years,,, 1980 - 2010 were three consecutive decades of significantly lower than average precipitation.

I’ll go with 40. Hunted Beaverhill area in early 70’s and it’s been a steady decline since then. I wonder how quick the refill will be when the cycle swings around. Was it 05’ we had the big water? Rivers where I’d never seen water. Repeat that by 10-15 years.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Can anyone answer this I was told that oil and gas do not have to pay for any water they take out of lakes rivers streams is that true

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False, most farmers got a buck a cube back a few years ago from their private dugouts.. Now water extraction in Southern Sask and Alberta is not permitted and water is hauled from the city supply (Medicine Hat)..at about $1.50 a cube...

[35 whelen]

Just wondering what are all those pumps and hoses along the highways, they must be pumping out of creeks and River supplies where are they going andwho pays for that? Thanks

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[CMichaud]

An article from July 2016

http://www.bonnyvillenouvelle.ca/art...saved-20160719

and one following up in 2017 (pasted below)

http://www.bonnyvillenouvelle.ca/art...-rise-20170711

Muriel Lake on the rise


By Meagan Pecjak Jul 11, 2017

Things at Muriel Lake are looking up.

That was the consensus shared at the Muriel Lake Basin Management Society (MLBMS) annual general meeting on Sunday, July 9.

Peter Cordingley, MLBMS president, explained how a study of the water quality and levels of the lake have revealed it’s starting to improve.
“The lake is higher today then it was at this time a year ago… that’s the first time in a long time,” Cordingley said.

Although the lake level has hit 555.8 metres above sea level, it’s still well below what it should be.

The lake’s good fortune can be attributed to the wet spring the area saw this year, Cordingley added.

In 2006, Muriel Lake was reported to have hit an all-time low in terms of water level. This was believed to be caused by climate change which has reduced the available water flowing into the lake.

Cordingley said another reason for the drop was because natural and land use changes have interrupted the flow of water into the lake.

“We believe there is also a potential change in the groundwater contribution. We know that the lake gained water from groundwater. Alberta Environment did a study of that in 2010, and it showed that the lake does continue to gain water from the ground,” explained Cordingley.

Another study was conducted in 2012 where weather data and water balance revealed how much the climate has changed, comparing rainfall in the air over numerous years.

“The average from 1951 to 1980 was 451-millimetres, so that was high rainfall. The average since that time, since the lake has been declining, is about 422-millimetres. We’re getting less rain then we used to,” Cordingley explained.

This year, the MLBMS is conducting a water quality test on the lake. Their first survey was on June 26.

It revealed that the water levels had risen, and although the windy weather made it difficult to determine just how much it had improved, they did notice that the clarity and oxygen levels were looking better.

If Muriel Lake continues on this uphill trend, the Alberta Government has shown interest in restocking the lake with fish. Which species is not yet decided, but the MLBMS is showing interest in Rainbow Trout because of their adaptability.

Another quality test is set to be completed this week.

The MLBMS is also working on their Beaver Deceiver Project. With the help of a $39,000 federal grant over a three-year period, they will be using a unique technique to keep the water flowing through the creeks and rivers, without harming the beavers or their homes.

“We feel as though beaver activity could be limiting the water level in the lake. Beavers build dams and they hold water back. Beaver dams do seep and water does flow through them, but beavers create a big pond and evaporation from the pond and the volume of the water they hold back is considerable,” explained Cordingley. “We’re not proposing to eliminate the beaver, we don’t want to shoot them or remove them… This project involves the installation of a beaver dam water level device to maintain a constant level in the pond.”

The system is simple. Using a flexible pipe, the MLBMS will guide the water through the dam, covering both ends with large cages so beavers can’t block it with debris. The piping will allow for water to flow freely through the dam and into the lake.

The funding for the project is coming from Environment Canada using the Environmental Damages Fund. It will help cover the cost of materials, and the process of applying to install the system.

Before they can get started, there are guidelines they have to follow.
“For crown land… we need an environmental permit,” Cordingley said.
The application costs $125, but doesn’t cover the $900 approval fee or the $6,000 legal survey.

The MLBMS only needs permission from a landowner in the case where a beaver dam is within the MD of Bonnyville, a road allowance, or on private land.

So far, they have received approval from the MD to start the process.
It would take volunteers four to six hours to install the system. Materials would cost $800 to $1,000.

The materials have been purchased for two beaver dams, and were ready to be installed this summer. Unfortunately, the wet spring washed out the beaver dams they were hoping to install the systems in.

Cordingley laughed, “We’re not installing there because Mother Nature has done our work for us.”

[tbiddy]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Can anyone answer this I was told that oil and gas do not have to pay for any water they take out of lakes rivers streams is that true

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If you’re getting water out of a source such as a lake, river, stream, etc.. you do not pay for the water. Water can not be sold. Typically a landowner will be paid for access to the water. You do need a temporary diversion licence that is approved by the AER. There are usually rules you have to follow when diverting water such as withdrawal rates, how much water you can take, only taking water when the flow rate is at a certain rate, how much you can drop the source (ie the slough can only drop 10cm, etc).

Typical reimbursement to a landowner in the Veteran/Coronation:Consort area is $3-5/m3.

[tbiddy]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

False, most farmers got a buck a cube back a few years ago from their private dugouts.. Now water extraction in Southern Sask and Alberta is not permitted and water is hauled from the city supply (Medicine Hat)..at about $1.50 a cube...

Provost charges around $10/m3. Coronation is about $7/m3.

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by tbiddy

If you’re getting water out of a source such as a lake, river, stream, etc.. you do not pay for the water. Water can not be sold. Typically a landowner will be paid for access to the water. You do need a temporary diversion licence that is approved by the AER. There are usually rules you have to follow when diverting water such as withdrawal rates, how much water you can take, only taking water when the flow rate is at a certain rate, how much you can drop the source (ie the slough can only drop 10cm, etc).

Typical reimbursement to a landowner in the Veteran/Coronation:Consort area is $3-5/m3.

Ok thanks

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