crossbow season?

"From what blake said he is tired of practicing with his bow so he needs to use a crossbow, pretty lame reason to allow crossbows in an archery season but probably the reason most want it changed!"

Lol, yeah...thats exactly what i said.:rolleyes I get so tired of having a 50 yrd range at work so i can practice anytime i like....so tired. I don't enjoy shooting with the other hunters i work with before and after work, and during lunch too. I didn't buy a new broadhead target and a glendel full rut for the range either, the other hunters didn't pick up a couple new targets either...as we don't go through them every year or so. I hate shooting Mathews bows....i hate it...they suck...too boring, smooth and easy to shoot.

"Blake sober up so we don't have to read pages of crap from you, just another tough guy behind a computer screen"

Yeah, sober now, sorry about the swearing...i pick that up from my wife(just in case anybody missed it...that was a joke). I'm not apologizing for the long windedness at all...hey....you obviously read it...what is such a smart guy like you doing on an internet forum anyhow? Quit wasting your time reading my drivel. And you got me on the tough guy bit...

And yes to the other responses...dead horse.

Sharpstickypoo....you saying that all hunters should shoot 3d's or something? I haven't shot one yet, got my range, put in my time at the range as efficiently as possible and out to the field i go. You can have the sausage parties all you like. That was a joke btw, just don't have interest in the target stuff as much as i do the field stuff....while all the 3d's are going on i'm out calling predators. Are you saying that the only right way to enjoy bowhunting is your way? Thats what i thought you were saying...and i'm saying your wrong. So it looks like we will go round and round beating the dead horse then.

If you don't think more choices are better when the data supports it etc. then by all means your entitled to your opinion. You know mine. Its a bow man...just a bow. Choices suck, in fact the gun guys should never be allowed to use anything except old 30-30 lever actions with iron sights...thats it. We should all have to do it the same way. We must kick the compound out of the archery seasons as soon as possible and to heck with advancemet or putting like tools where they fit etc. Who needs or enjoys choices or change for the good???? Wait a minute....

B

Blake you seem to have trouble seeing another point of view, as sheep said to me earlier in this post read it for what it is, I did not say you have to shoot 3ds, just said it is good practice! According to you I can't have my own view on the subject!
Kind of like the rest of the responses I get from you, you have to resort to name calling and such...shows everyone here what or who you are!!

Just a point of interest sharpstick....compound shooters and crossbow shooters do compete side by side in many 3D competitions.

And pappy, there are three jurisdictions in Canada that recognize the crossbow as archery gear.....Ontario, BC and NWT.

"Blake you seem to have trouble seeing another point of view, as sheep said to me earlier in this post read it for what it is, I did not say you have to shoot 3ds, just said it is good practice! According to you I can't have my own view on the subject!
Kind of like the rest of the responses I get from you, you have to resort to name calling and such...shows everyone here what or who you are!!"


Look Sharpstickypoo...your just angry cause your wrong. I can't help it that i'm right. Suck it up. Hope your not an oilers fan tonight...(calgary took it to em good):b .

All kidding aside Sharpyboy....how serious do you really think i am? LOL, yeah...i think the crossbow fits with the rest of the bows but i don't really care that much...ask the ABA...if i did i'd be all involved etc. but i've actually only got enough time to argue it a little on this particular forum.....cause its FUN! And yes....i believe i'm right...but i have no prob with others argueing their own opinion. Real life i'm a pretty fun guy to hang out with...even if your an oilers fan....so relax and please try to keep this whole 'its just an internet forum thing' in context okay!....i'm bustin your balls as much as i'm trying to make a point. Your opinion is as good as mine Sharpy...if i argue a little dirtier than you then so be it...aint no thing but a chicken wing aaaaaite?

B(who just got back from the flames/oilers new years eve blowout!.....whats that? oilers given up 24 goals in 4 games or something....OWIEEEE! :lol )

"Blake you seem to have trouble seeing another point of view"

Sorry to reply to myself.....when i first heard of the subject...i was of the same opinion as you Sharpy. Honest, my kneejerk reaction was 'screw that!'...no crossbows in with my bows! But i did alot of research afterwords and this is where i'm at now. I think most guys who do the same end up with the same opinion. It's not near the threat we initially think it is.

B(p.s. happy new year)

I'm gonna try a different tack on this one. Since the 1950's, the ABA has fought for bowhunters rights. They were only successfull getting the pre-season archery season that the crossbow hunters so desperately want to join in 1976/77.

So it seems to me a lot like biting the hand that feeds you when some small group tries to directly oppose what constitutes archery equipment with the very group that fought so hard for this season to exist!

I say the ABA won us these rights, lets stand by their side and back them up!

Oooooh......I like your moves Rocks! Thats a good one.

Problem is...there is a bow that fits better in that group than with the guns....sorry...but its true....the crossbow fits in with the other bows....too hard to deny. Your last post was so good it makes me wanna join your team but...the logic on the weapons themselves says....NOPE.

fffffffffft........vs.........BANG! Sorry...its a bow.

I gotta go with that. Way to go ABA on that fight back in the 70's but time to lay off the pipe and recognize another tool that fits in that category for hunting okay!!!!

The poor ole crossbow...persecuted like its some kind of snake on a plane or something . Strikes fear into the hearts of so many....but all it is is one of our marvelous inventions....just like the compound. No reason to treat it like the anti-christ....we made the dang thing. We took a compound and put a stock/trigger on it...how smart of us eh?!!! Yet then we treat our own invention like its hell spawn????? Go figure....:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

B

So, back to this...

"So it seems to me a lot like biting the hand that feeds you"

I wonder what the percentage of members of the ABA shoots compounds????? Cause those particular members who stand with the ABA on this are just plain ole hypocrits imo. Its so simple that it seems so easy to dismiss. The traditional guys also fought this same fight when the compound bow came into the picture....'its not a bow if it has training wheels etc.'....so guess what....this is exactly the same thing. EXACTLY!!!! So any compound bow shooter who is enjoying the same technological advancements in the sport that i am....yet fights the crossbow inclusion....is a hypocrit. And.....who likes to be a hypocrit?????? Not me man.

For crying outloud folks...we have peeps(rear sights), fiber optic sights....release aids!!!! Are you kidding me on this crossbow thing?????!!!!! What is the difference?????? I'll take my switchback xt against a crossbow hunter anyday...will have to wait for its inclusion though. We'll go for numbers of deer and inches too.

B

It all makes sense now blake, you are from calgary and are a flames fan.................say no more!!

Sheep I have never seen crossbows and bows at the same 3D just curious where you have seen this??

It's quite common in the east sharpstick.

I know several shooters out east that are very proficient with both crossbow and compound bow and enjoy shooting both thoroughly and are quite surprised at the division out here. For them when they head out archery hunting they choose between the crossbow or compound as a rifle hunter would choose beteen his .308 and .30-06. It depends what they are hunting, the style and of course their mood. To them that choice really adds to the experience of an archery hunt. I think many feel that introducing people to archery through the crossbow is very good for the sport and many of those shooters become more interested in archery and want to expand their experience so they end up taking up the compound bow as well, just as most hunter out here begin with rifle and then take up the bow later.

There seems to be this belief out here that you are either a crossbow shooter or you are a vertical bow shooter but the truth is, a huge number of crossbow shooters are also accomplished vertical bow shooters and hunters. I know I enjoy shooting both a lot and love having that choice.

Good points in your last post Sheep Hunter.

How many of the anti cross bow people have actually shot one? I for one have shot both a x-bow and a compound bow. I just returned from Christmas back east and their deer season is still open for archery hunting - whether it be cross bow, compound, or traditional archery. I know people that own both bow types and as SH indicated they have a choice before they set out hunting as to what they will use. You can rest assured that x-bow hunters eat just as much tag soup as other bow users do. A good friend of mine back east has taken 1 deer during their rifle season. He has yet to take one this year with his bow (x-bow or compound). In fact he had a nice buck close to his stand, but turned down the shot with his x-bow for the same reason he would have with his compound bow - he did not have a clear shot (branches in the way) and did not want to risk wounding and losing an animal. If your fear is that the addition of x-bows will have the woods overrun with new hunters you are sadly mistaken. Guess what you still need to sight in your x-bow (same as with other bows), still need to practice to be effective with your bow (same as other bows), still need to get up close and personal with the animal (same as other bows), still need to get within your comfort zone for shooting whether that be 20 YDS, 30 YDS etc.. (same as other bows - notice a trend?)

Perhaps what they could do is designate some trial zones where x-bows can be used during the archery season. With that done monitor the number of hunters in the field, and numbers of animals harvested. I am confident you would not find places overrun with hunters, nor would you find an over harvest of game.

The other limiting factor with crossbows in the cost. You are looking at over $1,000 to get set up so I can't seeing it attracting hoards of rifle shooters when they have plenty of opportunities already. It would attract some serious hunters to the sport of archery and how is that a bad thing?

This is kind of funning having all these polls again and it wasn't me this time starting them.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif" /> Anyhow someone said that they are not a "bow", but I personally don't think they are not a rifle neither. True they do shoot vertically and they do have a stock, a trigger, and they shoot a 20" shaft (bolt) instead of a 28" + shaft (arrow). I shoot alum. 17" shafts in my crossbow and I use 30" alum. shafts for my compound. It is the same material just smaller in lenghts, so they call the smaller one a bolt which has a flat nock (it may not be called a nock) but you get the picture, or as like mine a little groov. My 30" alum shaft or arrow has a deeper nock that attaches to the bow sting.

Now when I pull back my 180lb crossbow string it catches the "trigger" and locks in place. When you attach your arrow release to your compound bow string it locks in place and when you poll back on the compound bow string with the arrow release the string is now locked in place until you release it by squeeseing the "trigger". Now I am not sure how your crossbow trigger is but my trigger on my crossbow (in my eyes)(my opionon) is a release that is horizonal instead of vertical as on the compound bow.

My 17" alum. bolt and my 30" alum. arrow both have to have board heads on them in order to hunt big game. I went to Wholesale, Pipestone archery, Sprucegrove and Sherwood park and I was told that the distance of the crossbow isn't that much better than a compound bow. Someone said that you can put a scope on a crossbow therefor it is like a rifle, true you can put a scope on a crossbow, but in a few hunting magazines I saw compound bows with scopes on them as well.
Take alook closely at your crossbow and you rifle. Does your crossbow have a barrel with spirals, does it have a magazine that can hold 5 bolts that pop up once you pull the string back, and when you release that bolt and you pull the string back another bolt pops up, does it have a bolt that contains the firing pin that pokes out its head after you squeeze the trigger and kicks the bolt in the butt which in turns sends the board head only flying? I think not. Oh and there is no build up of gun powder as well.

In my opion and this is all it is simply my opionon, a cross"bow" is more closer to a compound "bow" than that of a rifle.

Well if nothing else, this thread has raised the awareness of crossbows a bit and provided a lot of information and I'm certain dispelled a bunch of the myths surrounding these bows. Whether they are archery gear or not is certainly up for debate but I still say that the ABA needs a much better arguement than it will put more hunters in the field and that's what drew me into the debate from the beginning. I'm not certain where I stand but I do know that we need to stand together to promote the heritage of hunting.

I agree, i've argued this for a few years in a row now. Seems to come about at the end of each season when some of the other popular arguments come about. Its kind of a fun thing for me so if i sound like i'm busting somebodies balls its because i am busting somebodies balls. I like to get people worked up a bit on the subject...like i did the first time i argued it...now its all fun and i am content with my compound but looking forward to see when the crossbow is allowed...its actually a pretty slick invention of ours and imo way under utilized. Looking forward to sunday hunting and a few other things too. Its good to have these discussions etc. it gets awareness out there...takes awhile for things to become universally known...and then changed...such is life.

B

Don't you need a FAC to buy a cross bow? if yes i don't see it bringing anyone new to the sport as some have suggested.

Don't you need a FAC to buy a cross bow? if yes i don't see it bringing anyone new to the sport as some have suggested

No. Why would you? It isn't a gun it is a bow.

Interesting arguments, many of which I don't understand at all :b

As someone who has never shot a bow of any configuration in my life, perhaps I have a bit different, and maybe unbiased, (and admitedly uninformed) perspective. Compound bow... crossbow... does it really make a difference to this particular question? I get it that there are some similarities, and plenty of differences with regard to technique and use. It strikes me though that the primary question to be asked in any discussion of legalizing a new weapon is "Does the weapon usually deliver a one-shot kill that minimizes animal suffering and/or loss?" If the answer is yes, allow it's use.

I might put on the added proviso that the weapon must be no more lethal than a centerfire rifle. By that I mean if it's harder to take game with it than with a rifle, fine, if it's easier (like using claymore mines, heat-seeking projectiles, etc.), then no. That way game populations will be no more at risk than through the growth (ha!) of the sport through traditional weapons.

I would think separate seasons are not required either. Personally I don't think there should be separate seasons for any weapon. Just my thoughts. You likely have a different view, and I can respect that.

I have to ask if all you guys think the crossbow is a bow, why in the ARCHERY magazines are there no crossbow articles and no ads for crossbows? I also have not seen mathews or bowtechs latest crossbows!!
Sheep
you keep saying the ABA's only reason for opposing xbows is reduced opportunities for bowhunters, I know you have talked at length with the ABA and it goes much deeper than that!! I believe Brent watson posted a reply to the xbow issue in the Alberta outdoorsman I just can't find which isssue, maybe Rob can help with that one? The ABA's position on crossbows was put in one of their newsletters, along with a couple studies that have been done on the issue. A good read if someone cares! (sorry I don't have specifics but I will try to get the mag issue and newsletter Date)
Sheep, Interesting, I have never seen xbows shot at 3D's here!
I pulled the archery #'s for the past 5 years, all within about 700 bow permits sold, no big decrease or increase!!
I will post them, just don't have them in front of me!

The reason there is nothing about crossbows in archery mags, as I'm sure you know, is that the editors would be barraged with the vocal anti-crossbowers threatening to boycott their mag. Archers who are neutral or agree will read and enjoy quietly.
I agree with xbows in archery season. They shoot a arrow with a bow.How hard is that to figure that they are more alike than different? It is established they are short range weapons with similar trajectories to compound bows.
The only thing I can see different is the use of a scope. If that is a big problem,regulate that they are to be used with their peep and pin sights!

..Al.

Sharpstick I've read the ABA and Brent's comments on crossbows and the main objection was loss of opportunity and increased draw waits. In fact that's what caused me to call Brent in the first place.

I don't know why you find it interesting that there are no crossbows at 3D shoots here when you consider who is organizing the shoots.

Sheep nowhere have I seen crossbows with bows, the big shoots in the us, buckmasters, realtree, or even any video!! Maybe yours if you put your doe on the next vid! In alberta the ABA holds three sanctioned shoots, the 3DAA holds up to seven sanctioned shoots in the south alone, and several more in the other three "tour" regions!! Then a final sanctioneed shoot to determine the provincial champion!! The 3DAA is a 3D archery club, why do they not have crossbows at their shoots?
Sheep are you sponsored by a crossbow company????

Sheep nowhere have I seen crossbows with bows, the big shoots in the us, buckmasters, realtree, or even any video!!

And I've never seen Mt. Everest...guess it doesn't exist either. There is life outside yours and my small circles sharpsick. In fact there is a whole world out there.

The 3DAA is a 3D archery club, why do they not have crossbows at their shoots?

I'm not big into speculation...possibly you should ask them if you are so curious.

Sheep are you sponsored by a crossbow company????

Me personally? No.

We are getting to the point in this thread where it's going in pointless circles. Obviously people are going to have a variety of opinions on this subject and it's only one that I waded into because of the protectionist attitude the ABA had. It really doesn't affect me as I'm perfectly able to shoot my several compound bows and do so. If crossbows were included in the archery season, I'd likely hunt with one but I wouldn't give up the compound either. Personally I love having choices, just as I hunt with my muzzleloadrer some days and my rifle others. I'm not on a crusade here to have crossbows included in archery season but there was a lot of misinformation being spread and I hate to see that about any group of hunters. I think that's likely enough said.

Are there any posters on this topic who are are employed by, sell for, or are sponsored for crossbow manufacturers?

Blake if you don't sell xbows to vertical only guys, you should, you're probably the one guy who could do it...

Now that most everybody has had their input,it seems there are valid positions on both sides of the issue.
Personally, I can't see where a compromise is unattainable.
Those who wish to maintain the status quo and leave the archery season as it is ..fine. For those who would like to have x-Bows included..this is possible. All that is required is one very small change to the regulations. No additional or split seasons would be involved. Simply allow crossbows to be used on PRIVATE LAND ONLY during the Archery season. Leave the GREEN ZONE as it is. Leave the SPECIAL SEASONS as they are.
By doing this, the special interest groups are left unscathed and those who have an opportunity to hunt the Archery season on private land can do so...with Crossbows if they so choose! I just can't see a problem here. If I,m missing a major point, I would sure like to know what the heck it is.

Has anyone used a crossbow in a rifle shoot? The question was asked if they use a crossbow in a archery 3D, so that is why I asked my question. Why not allow crossbows in a 3D shoot. It would be interesting to see the final out come of a crossbow vs compound vs longbow 3D shoot out.

"Are there any posters on this topic who are are employed by, sell for, or are sponsored for crossbow manufacturers?"

I dunno why this question always comes up in these discussions but i guess its valid....wouldn't want someone just pushing a product to get sales up. I was told last year when i argued this on the ABA forum that i must be making money off of it?:rolleyes I said no(and i am not)....but now i'm thinkin i should maybe open my eyes and see if there's an opportunity here? Lol, i am simply argueing my opinion and man if you could ever find the thread that went off last year on the ABA forum...there were a few guys that came aboard that could educate it 10x better than i ever could. They had the data, the patience, the wording etc. etc. there were some extremely good arguments worth reading on that thread. I have more of an agitating and abrasive style....the kenny linsmen of this forum i guess.:lol

"Blake if you don't sell xbows to vertical only guys, you should, you're probably the one guy who could do it..."

I will certainly take that as a compliment...thanks.

I read alot of these very arguments and visualized the tool in my hands a whole bunch to think the way i do on this. And i'm good at visualizing things through before they happen, generally i'm aweful close. Anyhow, the first thread i ever saw on this topic was on a u.s. forum somewhere and it was a monster and very heated....much like this one. When i first started it i was against the crossbow but by the end i was starting to doubt my first impressions and had to admit i didn't really know jack about it. So i then sourced out as much info about crossbows as i could, not just the arguments about their inclusions but general chit chat (much like you'd see about compounds etc. on any archery forum) just to see if what the guys argueing 'for' it were actually being truthful.

All it took was an open mind and a ton of reading through the lines learning about the tool itself, its limitations, and the data of what happens when added in with the compounds etc. and voila....its just another bow choice we can safely add. Sure, there will be differences here and there...but very minute...as compared to the overall gain.

Thats just my opinion. I'm a born and raised Calgarian, nothin special, grew up huntin/fishin...stopped to chase girls instead for about a decade and i've been back to huntin/fishin hardcore ever since. When i was a kid i used a gun but when i got back into it after chasin the girls...the bow sports interested me the most, the leaps and bounds in technology made the bowhunting so appealing to me and now its in my blood for good. Because of its difficulty and the time/work/dedication that goes into it...i personally can't find a more 'rewarding' type of hunting. I may find the predator calling more 'fun' but certainly not more 'rewarding'. Oh, and i don't do the target thing at all, never been to any kind of a 'shoot'...bow or gun...i think anything to do with our sports is all good. I love shooting my bow and guns and do both alot, i love to know my weapons limitations and my limitations with the weapons...and work on increasing my limitations with the weapons....as ultimately i only care about hunting. Thats it. I don't care about some definition of some equipment as being the sole reason its not allowed, i don't care if it competes with it in some shooting tournament etc. I only think about this crossbow inclusion for hunting and thats it. It just makes sense to me.

In all the animals i've drawn on there is only one in 4 years staight that the crossbow would have helped me on...it was the second day of opening season on my first season with a bow and the first chance i had at a deer with a bow ever. I was so cocky shooting gophers to 40 yrds no prob all summer...that i didn't think i needed to practice with headnets/gloves etc. on....i was cocky enough that i might have mucked it up with the crossbow too? Missed my first deer by a foot, as i found out shooting the bag first thing the next morning with all the gear on. Other than that...the crossbow would not have helped me in the number of animals or the size(i've tagged out in the bowzone from my first season till now). Granted i don't hunt the same game in the same country as everyone else so i can see some of the arguments when it comes to trophy's etc. like the spot and stalk on the big mule deer etc. but their mostly draw now anyhow so...AND...i still don't see the 'draw' factor as being that big of an advantage. And...the trophy argument is a selfish one anyhow, i'd still rather see them taken by a bow of anykind than a gun...if i can be so hypocritical :lol .

I'm just guessing we're near the end of this particular thread? Who know's there could be some points/questions not covered yet.

B

How many people have ever got a second shot at an animal with a vertical bow. While not common it does happen. It wouldn't happen with a crossbow. Certainly there may be the odd occasion where the odds are stacked in favour of the crossbow shooter but so too are they in favour of the vertical bow shooter and that's why harvest success remains virtually identical.

Every animal i've ever been within bow range of with my compound bow presented a follow up opportunity after i missed. The loud noise made by my bow usually had them pretty wound up so i didn't risk it but it would have been very possible. Hopefully i won't have the noise issue with my new bow but thats a good point why crossbows may be a little more limited. (i've missed 4 deer bowhunting, one whitetail buck at 30 yrds (jumped the string), one mulie doe at 20 yrds (i used wrong pin and shot 2 feet high) a mulie buck at 30 yrds (jumped arrow), and another mulie buck at 20 yrds that also jumped my arrow after i let it go). All besides the whitetail actually came closer trying to figure out what the noise was. I only tried another shot once, and the deer jumped the arrow a second time so i decided its not a good idea with the equiptment i had. Good point i'd think in favor of crossbows.