Sheep on a Draw?

[nube]

Factor in time and sheep herders and you'll have your answer.

You might have part of it right there Chuck. I bet most hunts are 14 days anyways on most guided hunts but I would think most avid sheephunters spend at least 10-14 days out there as well. It would be interesting to see how much time a guy spends and what kind of success he has in seeing or killing a legal ram. I still find it hard that a guy can not find a legal ram in 10-14 days of hunting at least every second or 3rd year. I would be interested in knowing how much time these guys use to get their rams after 10 years of hunting. Most of them must be the weekend types that drive up and down the highway I would think but I do not know.

[Rocks]

I don't really think putting sheep on draw is warranted at this time. And if sheep numbers dictate I'd way rather see them go to a 1 sheep in 3yrs or 1 in 4 instead. If you could only shoot one every three or four years i think people would hold out for a bigger ram (maybe).

Originally Posted by chuck

Better yet, you shoot a short sheep and you're done. Period. Lifetime ban on sheep hunting. If I can pay that close of attention you can to. Sometimes it just takes a little motivation to care enough to do so.

Not the way to go IMO. I don't think you'd see many rams turned in then, guys would leave them on the mountain or lose them on the way home.

I shot a short sheep. Didn't judge him wrong, I shot at a big, well legal ram in a group of four, and dropped one of his buddies, not exactly sure what happened, but I screwed up for sure. I took it in a and took my licks, that was a long time ago and I've passed lots of squeaker rams since, when I do take another one in I don't want them to have to put a square on it. Would I have turned myself in if it meant a lifetime ban on sheep hunting? I'd hate to have to think about it.

[nube]

Good for you Rocks for taking the beating. Sucks some times but I bet you learned a lesson.
I agree with your thoughts as well.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by nube

You might have part of it right there Chuck. I bet most hunts are 14 days anyways on most guided hunts but I would think most avid sheephunters spend at least 10-14 days out there as well. It would be interesting to see how much time a guy spends and what kind of success he has in seeing or killing a legal ram. I still find it hard that a guy can not find a legal ram in 10-14 days of hunting at least every second or 3rd year. I would be interested in knowing how much time these guys use to get their rams after 10 years of hunting. Most of them must be the weekend types that drive up and down the highway I would think but I do not know.

I do know a quite a few quys that havent shot a ram yet and have hunted alot of years. They have turned down legal rams though but just have their mind set on a certain size or look of ram. I think in the sheep hunting world there is a lot more emphisis on the hunt than the actual harvest.

Alot of guys do hunt for 10-14 days but thats alot different then outfitters and guides being out there from early to mid August(or earlier) till the end of October every year.

One thing that affects the residents is that they flock to and over populate certain areas and hunt places that are affected by migrations due to weather.
Lots of time its easier to find legal rams in areas that hold sheep year around and are in areas that get minimum pressure.

I turn down 3 or 4 legal rams every year. I do put in alot of days out there but as any sheep hunter knows there are spots that always hold rams that are away from the crowds so to get a legal ram isnt always that hard. Ive turned down legal rams in one basin every year for the last 6 or so years. Its a tough place to get to and gets over looked.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by nube

You might have part of it right there Chuck. I bet most hunts are 14 days anyways on most guided hunts but I would think most avid sheephunters spend at least 10-14 days out there as well. It would be interesting to see how much time a guy spends and what kind of success he has in seeing or killing a legal ram. I still find it hard that a guy can not find a legal ram in 10-14 days of hunting at least every second or 3rd year. I would be interested in knowing how much time these guys use to get their rams after 10 years of hunting. Most of them must be the weekend types that drive up and down the highway I would think but I do not know.

Those outfitters are spending more time on the mountain than 10-14 days a year.

[pika]

Apparently the general consensus of the sheep meeting involving various biologists and srd in Alberta was greatly reduced opportunity to resident hunters, fortunately non-residents should not be affected so if you move out of Canada you should still be able to buy a tag without applying for a draw. This will make it easier to sway harvest rates to more like BC where non-residents get 70 percent of the tags!! Should make for some good guiding opportunities.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by pika

Apparently the general consensus of the sheep meeting involving various biologists and srd in Alberta was greatly reduced opportunity to resident hunters, fortunately non-residents should not be affected so if you move out of Canada you should still be able to buy a tag without applying for a draw. This will make it easier to sway harvest rates to more like BC where non-residents get 70 percent of the tags!! Should make for some good guiding opportunities.

I know when tag numbers where decreased in draw areas they also took a percentage of nonresident tags also.

I dont know what they will do about the non resident tags, alot of zones only have 4 and some have 8 but if they drop the number of our tages they should drop the number of nonresident also.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I know when tag numbers where decreased in draw areas they also took a percentage of nonresident tags also.

I dont know what they will do about the non resident tags, alot of zones only have 4 and some have 8 but if they drop the number of our tages they should drop the number of nonresident also.

That sure wasn't the case in WMU410. Not sure where else has draw tags and a non-resident season for sheep.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I know when tag numbers where decreased in draw areas they also took a percentage of nonresident tags also.

I dont know what they will do about the non resident tags, alot of zones only have 4 and some have 8 but if they drop the number of our tages they should drop the number of nonresident also.

History shows that this has not happened with the sheep outfitters. They brokered a deal for guaranteed tags before the whole allocation deal was fleshed out for the other species.

[ram crazy]

[QUOTE=Rocks;473640]I don't really think putting sheep on draw is warranted at this time. And if sheep numbers dictate I'd way rather see them go to a 1 sheep in 3yrs or 1 in 4 instead. If you could only shoot one every three or four years i think people would hold out for a bigger ram (maybe).

Nine out of ten sheep hunters that have shot their first Ram are going to hold out for a bigger one the next time. So it's not just shoot the first legal Ram you see every year that you can hunt sheep. I really don't see a problem with the way the system is working right now. Put in enough time looking for Rams and you will find big sheep.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That sure wasn't the case in WMU410. Not sure where else has draw tags and a non-resident season for sheep.

was refering to resident draw tags in general not sheep!!

Non residents are only killing approx 40 sheep a year so im sure they wont be taking any tags from outfitters. I think in the zones where moose and elk allocations were removed the non resident success was alot higher percentage.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

was refering to resident draw tags in general not sheep!!

Non residents are only killing approx 40 sheep a year so im sure they wont be taking any tags from outfitters. I think in the zones where moose and elk allocations were removed the non resident success was alot higher percentage.

How many resident hunters kill sheep per year?

[sheepguide]

Around 140
188 approx. total rams killed
Approx 85 nonresident tags with a 50% success rate.

Just getting numbers from previous posts

[nube]

You must not be reading all of the posts Chuck. It was talked about earlier and from what we could gather from a few guys it looks like it is around 120- 150 a year. I think the only real stat we got was for the year 2007 and I think if I remember correctly it was a good year for number of ram kills that year and it was above average. I wish I could find all the info I once had. Not sure where I got all of my info from but I used to have survey harvest info for some specific zones which was nice to see. It would be nice if Fish and Wildlife would open the books for all the zones. They get all the info when you register the sheep but they don't let it go out to the public. I imagine a lot of guys don't really register it where they get it though.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by nube

I imagine a lot of guys don't really register it where they get it though.

I couldnt imagin someone doing such a thing!

[nube]

I was going to add a few

[Pathfinder76]

So non residents account for, say, 25% of the ram harvest.

How does that compare to other species?

Originally Posted by chuck

So non residents account for, say, 25% of the ram harvest.

How does that compare to other species?

Chuck, you're missing a good thread....

From above...

http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...20Oct%2008.pdf

[nube]

Sheephunter, that link does not come up for me for some reason.

Try this http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...20Oct%2008.pdf

[crazyfish]

thanks SH, that answered my previous question and a couple others all at once ! now to start planning for next year!

[fatrack]

Wow! Some interesting stats there. According to that elk has a lower percent success than trophy sheep (very surprising to me).

[buddyhunter]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Nine out of ten sheep hunters that have shot their first Ram are going to hold out for a bigger one the next time. So it's not just shoot the first legal Ram you see every year that you can hunt sheep. I really don't see a problem with the way the system is working right now. Put in enough time looking for Rams and you will find big sheep.

i agree there isn't anything wrong with the current system. but as you may have noticed our current government likes to put their stamp on things, you know, something for us to remember them by.

if they believe that the best way to stop killing short sheep is to put them on a draw, then they might as well support the long gun resgistry. because they are both as logical as each other. how about stiffer penalties? how about actually have your ducks in a row when you go to court?

[Rocks]

Does anyone have any numbers for the amount of short sheep shot in a season?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Try this http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...20Oct%2008.pdf

Very interesting stats. The non-resident success rates vs resident sure show the effects of A) using a guide and B) hunting hard and being determined to come away with something (versus a resident thinking "I'll find something better next week, or next season"). Still not sure how non-resident hunters achieved a 102% success rate on bears

When I see the resident success rates for elk I suspect a lot of guys must be like me... Not really hunting them hard, but just out and might run across one while hunting something else, so better pick up a tag. The success rate for antelope is really encouraging! haven't gotten a tag yet for those but 97% success rate? wow

Still not sure how non-resident hunters achieved a 102% success rate on bears

I'm guessing because they can get two tags but base success on one tag being filled. 100 hunters kill 102 bears = 102% success.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm guessing because they can get two tags but base success on one tag being filled. 100 hunters kill 102 bears = 102% success.

Good point. Resident hunters have to buy two licences to get two bears so couldn't exceed 100% success rates. With alien non-residents they could (one licence getting you two tags in some areas). Probably not the best way of reporting it though. Comparing apples to oranges. I guess the same thing must happen with supplemental deer licences where you get two tags.

[podman]

Originally Posted by fatrack

Wow! Some interesting stats there. According to that elk has a lower percent success than trophy sheep (very surprising to me).

With elk my friends had four tags and harvested 1 elk which we were happy with, 2 might have been better but 3 or 4 would have been too much. So we split the meat and are happy. For Sheep I don't feel most are hunting for meat they want the trophy. With my uncle who has been hunting elk 30 plus years the same thing they hunt in a party of 4 or so and if they get 1 elk between the 4 of them they are happy. I don't think they have ever shot 4 in one season.

[rhuntley12]

I'd rather see people able to get a ram every maybe 3-4 years instead of a draw. Haven't gone sheep hunting but perhaps let people hunt every year and if they get one they can't get another tag for the next 2 seasons or next season, whatever.

Would give people chance to pass on smaller rams and maybe leave more of the squeekers for people who would be excited for just that. I think this would give people as much chance to hunt without having to wait for a draw and then shooting something so they don't go home empty handed, and instead able to continue hunting for what they want.

Hell, myself I'd be beyond excited just to get one that was barely legal to put on my wall. One of the neatest animals this province holds in my opinion.


Just my .02

[Sheepcrazyguy]

Originally Posted by buddyhunter

i agree there isn't anything wrong with the current system. but as you may have noticed our current government likes to put their stamp on things, you know, something for us to remember them by.

if they believe that the best way to stop killing short sheep is to put them on a draw, then they might as well support the long gun resgistry. because they are both as logical as each other. how about stiffer penalties? how about actually have your ducks in a row when you go to court?

I have to agree. How could putting sheep on a draw possibly change the amount of short sheep shot? The only way to change that is stiffer fines and educating hunters on how to judge sheep. As always, if in doubt don't shoot.