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  #91  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:38 PM
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Flint, you owe Caper28 an apology. With the government sponsered, native abuse of the fisheries in Atlantic Canada, his post is likely the most polite one I've read on the issue in a decade.
  #92  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TreeGuy View Post
Flint, you owe Caper28 an apology. With the government sponsered, native abuse of the fisheries in Atlantic Canada, his post is likely the most polite one I've read on the issue in a decade.
Well From what I Remember,A few months ago, you were Making racist Jokes about French people,so Maybe your the one who owe's an apology????
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  #93  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:48 PM
Walleyes Walleyes is offline
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Nah I had something to say but it just ain't worth it any more..

Tell you all what,,, cry me a fricken river would yah..
  #94  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
Well From what I Remember,A few months ago, you were Making racist Jokes about French people,so Maybe your the one who owe's an apology????
Yet again, you reinforce the validity of my posts.

Please do not derail a good thread because they tied your cammo corresset on too tight.
  #95  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:21 PM
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wwbirds, I don't know where you learned your "history", but you really need to go take another look at it. I'll give you a point to start off with: why do you think that the majority of the tribes were nomadic or semi-nomadic?
  #96  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:31 PM
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Its interesting that most forum members just shrug their shoulders when it is mentioned that sheep outfitters have the whopping amount of tags that they do because they made a deal with the goverment years back yet when natives make a deal it is a serious problem.Speaking of status Indian rights here not Metis.Although I have not one drop of native blood in me that I am aware of to me a deal is a deal and I'm proud to live in Canada where deals are for the most part kept and the goverment is mainly trustworthy.While there has been some horrible deeds done in the past I am also proud that Canada was somewhat less brutal then the States in this whole thing.To me all men are equal and I have to hand it to the chiefs back in the day for negotiating the deal they did.I live near one of the largest reserves in Alberta and have never met another sustenance hunter in my life but I also sympathize with those who live where this right to sustenance hunt is being abused and the game is scarce.My knowledge of the Metis rights is limited but in my opinion if they also negiated a deal thats one thing but if they are after additional oppurtunities thats just being greedy.

Last edited by ganderblaster; 06-27-2010 at 11:35 PM. Reason: staying on topic
  #97  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TreeGuy View Post
Yet again, you reinforce the validity of my posts.

Please do not derail a good thread because they tied your cammo corresset on too tight.
Thats A Good One,Thanks for coming out
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  #98  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
Non-Natives, are just Jelous that they dont have the hunting& Fishing, privlages that our aboriginal people do.
Everyday when I wake up I wish I was an Indian........LOL. Ya ok buddy.

Quote:
Go visit one sometime and see the poverty, depression, suicide, hopelessness.
They do this to themselves, White man does not go into the reserves and make them ****holes. I drove through a reserve once by accident, the one by gleichan with my dad while gopher shooting, Houses were missing half the siding other houses were run down.

If the Indians want respect they will need to stop blaming the government for all their problems and take responsibility for their actions.
  #99  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:38 AM
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Perhaps the provincial gov. should look at having subsistence hunters(Whites,metis,treaty)apply for a yearly permit? They used to have an Alberta Health Care premium exemption form to fill out for low income families . Why not for subsistence hunters who fall into low income brackets? I do not beleive that some one who makes a decent income should be part of the problem, rather they should pay for tags and become part of the solution to sustaining our resources , irregardless of color or creed. Just a thought , no insult intended to anyone
  #100  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:28 AM
Caper28 Caper28 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TreeGuy View Post
Flint, you owe Caper28 an apology. With the government sponsered, native abuse of the fisheries in Atlantic Canada, his post is likely the most polite one I've read on the issue in a decade.
I tired to keep it as civil as posible. The native issue is not as big a deal out here as it is on the east coast and most on this site would not understand. It's not just natives we blame, it's also the white man. See, back there you can rent an indian, as they call it, to go shoot moose out of season and with out a tag. Happens on a daily basis, and it's illegal. And I have no use for those guys eather. If it wasn't for the ones buying salmon off the indians they wouldn't have any need to slaughter as many fish as they do. So I don't blame just the indians. It's a complicated situation back there, and most on here don't understand exactly what's going on there.
  #101  
Old 06-28-2010, 10:03 AM
antlercarver antlercarver is offline
 
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Default native hunting

I am not native or metis. I see subsistence hunting as a way which a person views themselves and a connection to family and who they are. Very similar to us celebrating Christmas even though we don"t act or live like Christians.
  #102  
Old 06-28-2010, 10:26 AM
mac_xi@hotmail.com mac_xi@hotmail.com is offline
 
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Default It is obvious

That many people posting to this thread have no real knowledge of Canadian history. And it is obvious that many will not get passed the "them vs you" mentality.

Let me assume one thing though. And correct me if I am wrong. But by the logic posted on this thread, most of you support the gun registry. That is also a peice of legislation that treats all gun owners "equal", regardless if you are a criminal or not. The same way us native subsistance hunters should be treated "equal" beacuse of a few who abuse the system.

And until some logical posts are added, I will just sit back and watch this thread roll into the gutter due to pettyness and ignorance. I'm out......
  #103  
Old 06-28-2010, 11:39 AM
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what would everyone be happy with?
on one side of the argument by the posters is everyone buys tags and hunts during the season
the other side wants subsistence hunting year round for all species

nobody will be happy with anything in between

right now there are several instances of inequality
youths get cheaper tags
youths and seniors don't have to buy a fishing licence
handicapped persons can hunt with crossbow, off of ATV, etc
the non-resident alien can buy a moose tag in a draw zone every year

If you want equality you are living on the wrong planet it will never happen
  #104  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Caper28 View Post
I tired to keep it as civil as posible. The native issue is not as big a deal out here as it is on the east coast and most on this site would not understand. It's not just natives we blame, it's also the white man. See, back there you can rent an indian, as they call it, to go shoot moose out of season and with out a tag. Happens on a daily basis, and it's illegal. And I have no use for those guys eather. If it wasn't for the ones buying salmon off the indians they wouldn't have any need to slaughter as many fish as they do. So I don't blame just the indians. It's a complicated situation back there, and most on here don't understand exactly what's going on there.
In your first post on this thread you blamed the natives and natives only. You targeted them as poachers. Now you are back peddleing and saying that whites are also to blame. The primary reason because of low fish densities is because of white commercial fishing. The only "natural" right that they have remaining is to hunt and fish. Now you and others what to take it away from them. Early voyagers, settlers, church and state had taken everything else.......their land, homes, childrens innocents, killed, raped and then placed on reserves. Let me remind you again that a recent court case was settled because childrens innocents were robbed from them by church and state------this is only the tip of the iceberb. Fishing and hunting for white's is a privilage and not our natural right.... this natural right belongs to the aboriginals. White's hunt for sport, and if they want or need meat then go to the white grocery stores. Stop complaining that the aboriginals have more then us and be greatful of what you have, that you can go hunting and fishing. I will always defend the aboriginals from ignorance. If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!
  #105  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:37 PM
RobinHood RobinHood is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flint View Post
In your first post on this thread you blamed the natives and natives only. You targeted them as poachers. Now you are back peddleing and saying that whites are also to blame. The primary reason because of low fish densities is because of white commercial fishing. The only "natural" right that they have remaining is to hunt and fish. Now you and others what to take it away from them. Early voyagers, settlers, church and state had taken everything else.......their land, homes, childrens innocents, killed, raped and then placed on reserves. Let me remind you again that a recent court case was settled because childrens innocents were robbed from them by church and state------this is only the tip of the iceberb. Fishing and hunting for white's is a privilage and not our natural right.... this natural right belongs to the aboriginals. White's hunt for sport, and if they want or need meat then go to the white grocery stores. Stop complaining that the aboriginals have more then us and be greatful of what you have, that you can go hunting and fishing. I will always defend the aboriginals from ignorance. If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!
I wouldn't bite the hand that feeds you!
  #106  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
In your first post on this thread you blamed the natives and natives only. You targeted them as poachers. Now you are back peddleing and saying that whites are also to blame. The primary reason because of low fish densities is because of white commercial fishing. The only "natural" right that they have remaining is to hunt and fish. Now you and others what to take it away from them. Early voyagers, settlers, church and state had taken everything else.......their land, homes, childrens innocents, killed, raped and then placed on reserves. Let me remind you again that a recent court case was settled because childrens innocents were robbed from them by church and state------this is only the tip of the iceberb. Fishing and hunting for white's is a privilage and not our natural right.... this natural right belongs to the aboriginals. White's hunt for sport, and if they want or need meat then go to the white grocery stores. Stop complaining that the aboriginals have more then us and be greatful of what you have, that you can go hunting and fishing. I will always defend the aboriginals from ignorance. If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!
Flint, actually you are wrong about the rights thing. The HUNTING, FISHING AND TRAPPING HERITAGE ACT Chapter H-15.5 gives me that RIGHT.

It is in the hunting regulations as well.

HUNTING, FISHING AND TRAPPING
HERITAGE ACT
Chapter H-15.5
(Assented to May 15, 2008)
Preamble
WHEREAS hunting, fishing and trapping have played
important roles in shaping Alberta’s social, cultural and
economic heritage;
WHEREAS hunters, anglers and trappers have made
important contributions to the understanding, conservation,
restoration and management of Alberta’s fish and wildlife
resources; and
WHEREAS the best traditions of hunting, fishing and
trapping should be valued by future generations:
THEREFORE HER MAJESTY, by and with the advice and
consent of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, enacts as
follows:
Right to hunt and fish
1(1) A person has a right to hunt, fish and trap in accordance
with the law.
(2) The reference to the law in subsection (1) includes the
Wildlife Act, the Fisheries Act (Canada), the Migratory
Birds Convention Act, 1994 (Canada) and the
regulations made under those Acts.
Non-derogation of aboriginal rights
2 Nothing in this Act derogates from any aboriginal right to
hunt, fish or trap.
  #107  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:31 PM
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If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!

The wildlife belong to everybody not one group, and one group is not responsible for the collapse. Its not one group that does the rape and pillage of the resource, and one group that lets it happen. Everybody is responsible to make sure the resources are still there for our kids. Things change, its called progress, and we as a whole need to adapt and move on. The programs are in place for the true subsistanse hunting and if you qualify, use it. If you don't qualify everybody should be held to the same standards.
  #108  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RobinHood View Post
I wouldn't bite the hand that feeds you!
They will not learn until it is to late.
  #109  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:32 PM
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flint, I have had many dealings with our "indigenous" people over my years in the north. Over that time, I have been approached many times to buy fish of every species that were netted as subsistence, moose, deer, elk, and woodland caribou. I have seen animal carcasses, shot under the guise of subsistence hunting being fed to the dogs. I have seen pickups(the treaty & metis owners of which I knew) loaded to the fender wells with walleye, most of which exceeded 5 lbs., that were peddled along the highway for beer money. Please do not climb on your tall pony and tell me that they have their perceived inherent right to rape Canada's natural resources like that. Have you had a look at our federal budget where in excess of $600million is allocated to them? What is the eventual disposition of those funds? For the size of the population, it sure as hell, on a per capita basis beats the hell out of what I earned by getting up in the morning and going to work, and having to pay their way through my taxes. By the same token I know some dam fine aboriginals that comply with the same laws that we are required to comply with. In fact, I hunt with several of them.
  #110  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
im tasting blood from biting my lip so hard on this one. ill try to do this as politely as possible, but i make no promises.

i had the misfortune of actually going out bowhunting with one of the 2 guys initiating the court case. i really didnt know him, but he was a neighbour of my uncle. my uncle asked if he could come along for the day, an i agreed. i wish i hadnt. the whole drive out he professed to me to be a great accomplished hunter and a trophy collecting machine. on the drive, he smoked non-stop. did i mention we were going bowhunting? you know....like getting close may matter? anyway. as we approached the pasture we were heading for, there were a couple of nice mule bucks in the ditch along the road. he was screaming to stop the truck as we pulled alongside. when the deer hopped the fence and bounded into the field, he drew his bow back and was going to shoot at them running at 50 yards. i was yelling form the back seat "dont be a "*&*&% idiot". he didnt shoot, but blamed me for scaring them away. i was giving ol unc the hairy eyeball and it wasnt even legal light yet. without too many long details, i didnt see an infraction that day, but a few were attempted until i reminded him of the rules. needless to say, i did not go out with the guy again. when my uncle asked if he could come with to the mighty whitetail land up north i told him ABSOLUTELY NO WAY! and if i ever found out he took him there behind my back id boot him in the nuts so hard my cousins would be sterile.
so anyway, when the metis hunting thing took effect, he and his kid immediatley went on a SUBSISTENCE killing spree that resulted in a couple of 400 class bull elk from suffield and a few big mule bucks in the 190 range. funny how the self proclaimed trophy hunter who had never taken a legit trophy size animal (yes i agree....eye of the beholder) is all of a sudden a meat hunter like his anscestors but happens to like his meat with giant antlers.
i usually try hard not to make personal statements about others when i post here, but this guy is a sloth in every way. he doesnt give a crap about way of life or subsistence tradition....he is just looking for a way to kill trophy animals. thats it! 209 is absolutely right in what he said. these two know exactly what they are entitled to and are looking to get themselves an advantage.
mods, if this post is too offensive and gets removed, i apologize and understand. the thread on herdbull/whitetailer/chris was way more extensive than this, and in my opinion, this guy is at least as offensive as what he did.

and before anyone asks why i didnt report the activities i saw that day, its because i stopped him from doing something illegal before he did it. believe me, had i known, i may have been temtped to let him follow through just so i could report him.
You forgot to mention his name. It has to be Gary Hirsekorn as the other guy doesn't smoke!
  #111  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:09 PM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redranger15 View Post
3/4 of the people that post in this thread have no clue about native history and how the treaties came about , they only see the present situation ,but really don't have a clue.
I seen an interesting TShirt the other day it read:

It's an Aboriginal Thing
You Wouldn't Understand

Makes sense doesn't it.
  #112  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:12 PM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by unclebuck View Post
When I see Metis subsistence fishermen climb into their 185 with floats and head out to their favorite lake(walleyes knows who I mean), and see other subsistence fishermen who own a trucking company situated in more than one place, that is worth in excess of $60 million, and subsistence fishing at Touchwood, I have a huge problem(walleyes knows him as well). Was there a fish fry at the Ponoka Stampede?
Smart Metis, why walk when you can fly?
  #113  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:14 PM
ARGO GUY ARGO GUY is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
In your first post on this thread you blamed the natives and natives only. You targeted them as poachers. Now you are back peddleing and saying that whites are also to blame. The primary reason because of low fish densities is because of white commercial fishing. The only "natural" right that they have remaining is to hunt and fish. Now you and others what to take it away from them. Early voyagers, settlers, church and state had taken everything else.......their land, homes, childrens innocents, killed, raped and then placed on reserves. Let me remind you again that a recent court case was settled because childrens innocents were robbed from them by church and state------this is only the tip of the iceberb. Fishing and hunting for white's is a privilage and not our natural right.... this natural right belongs to the aboriginals. White's hunt for sport, and if they want or need meat then go to the white grocery stores. Stop complaining that the aboriginals have more then us and be greatful of what you have, that you can go hunting and fishing. I will always defend the aboriginals from ignorance. If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!


Are you freakin kidding me the fish belong to them !!!!!!!!!! Get a freakin life
  #114  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:15 PM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_xi@hotmail.com View Post
I think I am out, they pull me back in.

First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.

Bill Maher said it best that racism is still alive and well. But most white people only recognize reverse racisim. They don't lynch people any more but those feelings are still there brewing deeply. Trying to strip our hunting rights are just another more relevent tactic. Sure in a perfect world everyone would be equal. But this isn't Eutopia.

The feeling you get when you see a native person deep in your gut is hate. As long as it's there we can never be equal. Alberta is to Canada as the "deep south" is to the united states. There are far deeper issues masking themselves in the posts that so frequently occur. Just because you say you are not racist
does not make it so. It's not all the non-native's fault. Hate flows both ways. Hate breeds ignorance and pettyness. That's why these threads tend to follow the same patterns.

I am aboriginal. I practice subsistance hunting. I feed my family. I will not apologize for it. And I will do whatever it takes to keep this right.
It is your right, exercise it proudly
  #115  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
In your first post on this thread you blamed the natives and natives only. You targeted them as poachers. Now you are back peddleing and saying that whites are also to blame. The primary reason because of low fish densities is because of white commercial fishing. The only "natural" right that they have remaining is to hunt and fish. Now you and others what to take it away from them. Early voyagers, settlers, church and state had taken everything else.......their land, homes, childrens innocents, killed, raped and then placed on reserves. Let me remind you again that a recent court case was settled because childrens innocents were robbed from them by church and state------this is only the tip of the iceberb. Fishing and hunting for white's is a privilage and not our natural right.... this natural right belongs to the aboriginals. White's hunt for sport, and if they want or need meat then go to the white grocery stores. Stop complaining that the aboriginals have more then us and be greatful of what you have, that you can go hunting and fishing. I will always defend the aboriginals from ignorance. If there is no fish on the east coast then that is your problem, not the aboriginals....the fish belong to them!
Flint, racial slurrs work both ways......I find it offensive!
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  #116  
Old 06-28-2010, 05:52 PM
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Just a few points then I'm stepping quietly out of this thread

The Metis subsistence is to be just that, subsistence hunting. Metis are not supposed to be out trophy hunting under the guise of subsistence and if anyone sees them doing it, they should call and report them immediately.

I, as a Metis, believe that a different system should have been put in place, tags given during regular season so kills can be tracked. That being said, the majority of Metis hunters are respectful of the environment and resources and there aren't a lot that shoot out of season or any ole place they feel like it or trophy hunt. There will always be bad apples but please don't stereotype the whole for the few.

To the person that stated that Metis receive all kinds of hand outs, we don't. The only "hand out" or special privileges we have received has been the hunting. We work, pay taxes, pay our own health care, GST, etc such as everyone else does.

People should read and learn about Metis settlements. The settlements and Metis (as a whole) are two different breeds. Not all Metis can go live on a settlement any time they want to. They are very proprietary and quite often they are settled by certain families and have a council to which someone has to apply to live there and most often those applications are denied. The settlements were only created in the 1930's by certain people lobbying the government. Metis were living all over Alberta long before the settlements went into effect. Living on a settlement does not make someone more Metis than those that don't and not living on one doesn't negate the subsistence hunting given to "all" Metis.

Lastly, I have never used my Metisness to hunt. I have always bought my tags, I have never trophy hunted, I only shot 1 moose per season as that is the only wild game that I eat. Because of this agreement, I quit hunting as on my last trip, another group that my husband and I encountered found out I was Metis, because I look Native and one of them actually had the nerve to ask my husband to see my tags. I will no longer go out as I'm now receiving extra attention to the already extra attention I had already had because of my race.
  #117  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
The Metis subsistence is to be just that, subsistence hunting. Metis are not supposed to be out trophy hunting under the guise of subsistence and if anyone sees them doing it, they should call and report them immediately.
I totally agree but a lot of the new Metis of convenience don't see it that way. I'm all for the rights of subsistence hunting entrenched in our constitution......sadly, some of the new Metis of convenience see it as a licence to poach. And sadly, depending on this court decision, that licence to poach may become the law of the land. It seems many of the new Metis of convenience cowardly shroud themselves in the rights that some still rely on the feed their families. Therein lies the rub.
  #118  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:26 PM
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This thread like most of the Metis topics is headed to the dump.

REALLY, is there anything to say that already hasn't been said 1000 times?
  #119  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuc View Post
This thread like most of the Metis topics is headed to the dump.

REALLY, is there anything to say that already hasn't been said 1000 times?
The info about the court case is definitely worth keeping an eye on as it may well shape the future of hunting in this province.
  #120  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
some of the new Metis of convenience see it as a licence to poach.
"A LICENCE TO POACH" Humm very interesting
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