Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by Boots270

Maybe we could set up a conference video call?

im open to that!!! warnig, im a lot ugly

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by bhguy

im open to that!!! warnig, im a lot ugly

As long as you vote yay for atlatl hunting its ok haha
Nay sayers will face deportation

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by Boots270

As long as you vote yay for atlatl hunting its ok haha
Nay sayers will face deportation

im all in for it, im a spear chucker/bow hunter

[Tox]

Originally Posted by Boots270

Had a brain poof.

ABA general meeting at Calgary Archery Centre March 22nd 4:30pm

Ill be there.
All flies come hither.

http://www.bowhunters.ca/uploads/Ban...oster_2014.pdf

Nope, this is the Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association (ATBA).
ABA AGM is in Lethbridge March 28-29
ATBA is an affiliated club of the ABA. AA, this is a good place to start with your membership with them or Better yet directly with ABA.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by Tox

Nope, this is the Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association (ATBA).
ABA AGM is in Lethbridge March 28-29
ATBA is an affiliated club of the ABA. AA, this is a good place to start with your membership with them or Better yet directly with ABA.

Cool
Thanks

[bhguy]

any atba members on here? what is their take..i know ther are alighned as a club with the aba

[Tox]

Originally Posted by bhguy

any atba members on here? what is their take..i know ther are alighned as a club with the aba

Yes, I think Calgarychef and I expressed our opinions. AA might be too.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by Tox

Yes, I think Calgarychef and I expressed our opinions. AA might be too.

Will you be at that ABA meeting?

[Tox]

Yes I will.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by Tox

Yes I will.

Nice.
I should be there as well.
I'm very interested to see how it goes.

[Tox]

Depending on my wifes schedule I hope to be at the ATBA AGM too. It's always a blast.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by Tox

Depending on my wifes schedule I hope to be at the ATBA AGM too. It's always a blast.

I'll be at the ATBA meet on the 22nd.
My 1st one.

[ex811]

In regards to the anti/PETA crowd...I don't think they care how we hunt/kill animals, they just don't want us hunt at all, regardless of the weapon used.

I've tried 'spear hunting', didn't like it, won't do it again...But it's a choice we should all be allowed to make.

[calgarychef]

I had an interesting weekend and volunteered to promote traditional bow hunting at Cabelas.

A fellow walked up and was very interested in our shoot in August but then he asked if we were affiliated with the ABA. When I said yes, he refused to have anything to do with our organisation based solely on the stance that Brent Watson has taken with spears.

Brent if you're reading this pay some heed to what's being said. You cost us a potential future member and have alienated many of your own members with this stance. Wouldn't it just make sense to shelf your motion motion?

[J D]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I had an interesting weekend and volunteered to promote traditional bow hunting at Cabelas.

A fellow walked up and was very interested in our shoot in August but then he asked if we were affiliated with the ABA. When I said yes, he refused to have anything to do with our organisation based solely on the stance that Brent Watson has taken with spears.

Brent if you're reading this pay some heed to what's being said. You cost us a potential future member and have alienated many of your own members with this stance. Wouldn't it just make sense to shelf your motion motion?

And odds are for every 1 person who flat out tells you this there are 10+ more that are not talking and share the same stance.

This was a bad move by the ABA

[albertaatlatl]

Very interesting comment! What we need is members in the ABA or affiliates to stand up to their leadership and state their views! I agree, that for every 1 that says anything there are 10 more thinking the same. Take a stand! We will be at the ATBA GM tomorrow and at the ABA GM the following Saturday, to voice our stance as MEMBERS if the ATBA and ABA! I do hope that others will stand up for our rights as well, and ask for the ABA proposal to be withdrawn! See y'all there!!

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by albertaatlatl

Very interesting comment! What we need is members in the ABA or affiliates to stand up to their leadership and state their views! I agree, that for every 1 that says anything there are 10 more thinking the same. Take a stand! We will be at the ATBA GM tomorrow and at the ABA GM the following Saturday, to voice our stance as MEMBERS if the ATBA and ABA! I do hope that others will stand up for our rights as well, and ask for the ABA proposal to be withdrawn! See y'all there!!

Wish i lived closer and could be there. Make sure to let us all know how it goes.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by J D

And odds are for every 1 person who flat out tells you this there are 10+ more that are not talking and share the same stance.

This was a bad move by the ABA

Absolutely.

It's embarrassing when you hear rumblings from other associations - Incredulous about some of the stands that ABA have taken on various issues.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by albertaatlatl

Very interesting comment! What we need is members in the ABA or affiliates to stand up to their leadership and state their views! I agree, that for every 1 that says anything there are 10 more thinking the same. Take a stand! We will be at the ATBA GM tomorrow and at the ABA GM the following Saturday, to voice our stance as MEMBERS if the ATBA and ABA! I do hope that others will stand up for our rights as well, and ask for the ABA proposal to be withdrawn! See y'all there!!

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Wish i lived closer and could be there. Make sure to let us all know how it goes.

Very simply, if you cannot be there, at least ask your colleagues in attendance to speak up and just as importantly write to the whole ABA executive stating your position, ask for a reply to your concerns.
Do not write just to the president.
http://www.bowhunters.ca/Executive_Contact.html



----


I suggest that there are two areas of concern with this resolution that must be addressed. Please bring these topics up at the meeting and in your letters. Remember, this is an organization that is supposed to follow a procedure, so the procedure must be followed.


ABA membership's first concern should be that this resolution was never offered for discussion nor voted on by the Members. This executive decision appears to be against the ABA constitution.

The executive needs to be held accountable to clarify whether the ABA Constitution was followed. Was the resolution adopted in accordance with the ABA By-laws? Why was this resolution never presented to the Membership for a vote?

If this resolution was presented without following the ABA By-Laws, then it should be immediately withdrawn.


The second concern is the resolution itself. If you disagree with it, request that the resolution be withdrawn from the AGMAG discussion until the ABA Membership has an opportunity to discuss and vote on it.

----

There is absolutely no support for this ABA resolution within the other AGMAG hunting groups, they all want to see it disappear. The ABA Executive brought this forward on its own volition and is solely responsible for its existence.

Now it is up to the ABA membership to take charge, inform the executive of their opinion, and direct their representatives on what position to take.

[Tox]

IMHO, a lot of the confusion comes from your posts. Many of your post say the ABA has made this proposal and it has. Many of your post read the ABA had a submitted a resolution which it has not.
A proposal may be submitted by anyone or any group. It is just that, a proposal, a topic for discussion which in turn get discussed and revised by all groups. It does not need the approval of the groups membership.

1. pro•pos•al
prəˈpōzəl/
noun
noun: proposal; plural noun: proposals
1.
a plan or suggestion, esp. a formal or written one, put forward for consideration or discussion by others.

A resolution is then submitted based on the discussions and revisions. This has not been done. This does need the approval of the membership. As I see it, the ABA is still in the discussion step with all user groups (AGMAG). So there is no formal resolution to be withdrawn.

1. res•o•lu•tion
ˌrezəˈlo͞oSHən/
noun

1.

a formal expression of opinion or intention made, usually after voting, by a formal organization, a legislature, a club, or other group. Compare concurrent resolution, joint resolution.


2.

a decision or determination; a resolve: to make a firm resolution to do something. Her resolution to clear her parents' name allowed her no other focus in life.


3.

the act determining upon an action or course of action, method, procedure, etc.; the act of resolving.


4.

firmness of purpose; the mental state or quality of being resolved or resolute: She showed her resolution by not attending the meeting.


5.

the act or process of separating into constituent or elementary parts or resolving.

"I suggest that until the ABA declares otherwise, it is wise to conclude that the ABA exec. will continue to lobby AGMAG for the banning of spears and atlatls."

Your words, suggestion, opinion... My opinion is that the ABA will continue discussions on the subject, as will the rest of the user groups until a resolution is warranted or not.

[thrude1]

Originally Posted by Boots270

I'll be at the ATBA meet on the 22nd.
My 1st one.

Could someone tell me what this ATBA is ive never heard of it before

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by thrude1

Could someone tell me what this ATBA is ive never heard of it before

Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association
Cat

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Tox

IMHO, a lot of the confusion comes from your posts. Many of your post say the ABA has made this proposal and it has. Many of your post read the ABA had a submitted a resolution which it has not.
A proposal may be submitted by anyone or any group. It is just that, a proposal, a topic for discussion which in turn get discussed and revised by all groups. It does not need the approval of the groups membership.

1. pro•pos•al
prəˈpōzəl/
noun
noun: proposal; plural noun: proposals
1.
a plan or suggestion, esp. a formal or written one, put forward for consideration or discussion by others.

A resolution is then submitted based on the discussions and revisions. This has not been done. This does need the approval of the membership. As I see it, the ABA is still in the discussion step with all user groups (AGMAG). So there is no formal resolution to be withdrawn.

1. res•o•lu•tion
ˌrezəˈlo͞oSHən/
noun

1.

a formal expression of opinion or intention made, usually after voting, by a formal organization, a legislature, a club, or other group. Compare concurrent resolution, joint resolution.


2.

a decision or determination; a resolve: to make a firm resolution to do something. Her resolution to clear her parents' name allowed her no other focus in life.


3.

the act determining upon an action or course of action, method, procedure, etc.; the act of resolving.


4.

firmness of purpose; the mental state or quality of being resolved or resolute: She showed her resolution by not attending the meeting.


5.

the act or process of separating into constituent or elementary parts or resolving.

"I suggest that until the ABA declares otherwise, it is wise to conclude that the ABA exec. will continue to lobby AGMAG for the banning of spears and atlatls."

Your words, suggestion, opinion... My opinion is that the ABA will continue discussions on the subject, as will the rest of the user groups until a resolution is warranted or not.

Groups and associations such as the ABA are to be run under the Robert's Rules of Order. I suggest you learn the rules first, you are mixing up the procedures between ABA business and AGMAG.



"Proposals" presented by the executive as a position of the association are to be established through motions and resolutions debated and voted on by the membership. This procedure was not followed by the ABA execs.

This is no different that if the Premier decided to ban all hunting without first consulting and having a vote in the legislature. Get it?




In case you forgot or continue to deny it. Here is the Proposal submitted to AGMAG by the ABA.

"May 29 2013 AGMAG MEETING
1:50 Advance regulation change proposals for 2015

• ABA – Make use of spears and atlatls illegal for hunting big game in AB.
o Full support from AGMAG to define legal big game hunting equipment."


My note- Full support means that the other groups accepted that F&W has the authority to re-define legal weapons. This is not an endorsement of the ABA resolution. There has never been another member of AGMAG offering support of the ABA proposal.










An update from the ABA AGM.

The ABA did not withdraw their proposal to ban spears and atlatls, however it does appear that this proposal was swallowed by the F&W discussion to redefine legal weapons during the Jan. '14 AGMAG meeting. Perhaps this proposal is technically dead.

However, the ABA still has not publically stated their current position regarding spears and atlatls to hunt big game. As there was no motion at the recent ABA AGM to declare a position, it is still in the hands of the executive.

The ABA has agreed to be a "courier" for an information package from Albertaatlatl to AGMAG, and that is all. They have not declared that they will change their position from requesting that spears and atlatls to be banned.

I suggest that until the ABA declares otherwise, it is wise to conclude that the ABA exec. will continue to lobby at AGMAG for the banning of spears and atlatls.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I had an interesting weekend and volunteered to promote traditional bow hunting at Cabelas.

A fellow walked up and was very interested in our shoot in August but then he asked if we were affiliated with the ABA. When I said yes, he refused to have anything to do with our organisation based solely on the stance that Brent Watson has taken with spears.

Brent if you're reading this pay some heed to what's being said. You cost us a potential future member and have alienated many of your own members with this stance. Wouldn't it just make sense to shelf your motion motion?

Yeah, Brent......I had a membership for the past 6 years, but didn't bother to get one this year. And I won't be in the future either. For all the reasons brought up in this thread.

[jethunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls for hunting Big game


1. Few hunters use spears/atlatls.

2. They are truly "primitive" weapons.

3. There are Youtube videos using spears/atlatls that are not very flattering.

4. It is hard for hunting groups and governments to defend their use to non-hunters.

5. Spear/Atlatl use might bring unwanted attention to other weapons used for hunting big game.



Based on these Five Reasons, it is very clear that the Alberta government must Ban using spears and atlatls for hunting big game.


I'm not asking for any opinions on this matter, just telling you how it is and what will be.

What anti-hunting group do you belong to - PETA or Greenpeace? What a pile of garbage. Five completely meaningless reasons. Even PETA could do better than this for gawd sake. It has to be a joke, right?

That's easily the dumbest thing I've seen on AO yet, and that's saying something. That's not an opinion, that's just the way it is.

[michaelmicallef]

They forgot one more reason. 6 just because we need to ban something and pizz off some hunters.

[Foxton Gundogs]

[QUOTE=North of Owlseye;2265605]"Reasons" 1, 2 and 4 are not reasons, they are not arguments, they are absurd.
1. Few use them - so what? Hardly a justification for banning them.
2. They are primitive - so it the logic that says this is a 'reason' for banning them.
4. Hard to justify their use to non hunters - no one cares. Its hard to justify any hunting or hunting weapon to non hunters.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately if the voter/lobby group is large enough the Gov't cares and in the end that's all that really matters.

[antlercarver]

I think there has to be some mental problem with a person who wants
to stick a blade into a living animal with their hand. I realize it is similar
to useing a arrow or bullet, except that the hunter is not there doing it by hand. If a pet had to be put down, and someone stabbed it, we would
have that person charged and have a mental evaluation and be restricted
from ever owning a animal ever again.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by antlercarver

I think there has to be some mental problem with a person who wants
to stick a blade into a living animal with their hand. I realize it is similar
to useing a arrow or bullet, except that the hunter is not there doing it by hand. If a pet had to be put down, and someone stabbed it, we would
have that person charged and have a mental evaluation and be restricted
from ever owning a animal ever again.

Most PETA members feel the same way as you do think.
How far away does a person have to be to make it "right" in your mind?

If one has to disasociate themselves with the deed to justify killing samething , I think they should quit hunting, that is my opinion , which obviously differs from yours.
To me it's about the same as someone not in favour of hunting and wantng all huntign banned, but has not problem eatng store bought meat.
Cat

[calgarychef]

Toss a spear or lob an arrow, is it really that different?

The real story in all of this is how the ABA wanted to make a proposal without the vote of the members or apparently the board.