Hiker seeking advise about trap lines

[McLeod Valley]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

A properly set snare is the next best thing for humane kills next to a conibear or drowning set. If you cant breathe you aint livin long right?

A proper set snare does not cut off air flow ........ It cuts off blood flow to the brain. Just a little FYI ,,,,,,, can't get a more humane kill then that .

[TRAPPER92]

Originally Posted by McLeod Valley

A proper set snare does not cut off air flow ........ It cuts off blood flow to the brain. Just a little FYI ,,,,,,, can't get a more humane kill then that .

X2 -There seems to be a lot of misconceptions concerning how a snare works

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by TRAPPER92

X2 -There seems to be a lot of misconceptions concerning how a snare works

I don't know how a snare kills a wolf, but I contacted a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine specializing in Internal Neurology and asked.

"Responses include" "respiratory and cardiovascular effects. The collapse of the circulatory system under controlled situations in animal models can take up to 8 1/2 minutes under anesthesia. The time it can take a wolf to die from choking is likely to be longer given that it is conscience at the time of choking"

"Choking can lead to the accumulation of fluid in the lungs, severe soft tissue injuries, swelling of the head due to loss of venous return and death can take hours through an extremely slow and painful process"

He didn't know if snaring was approved as humane, I suspect it's not.

[FlyTrapper]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

I don't know how a snare kills a wolf, but I contacted a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine specializing in Internal Neurology and asked.

"Responses include" "respiratory and cardiovascular effects. The collapse of the circulatory system under controlled situations in animal models can take up to 8 1/2 minutes under anesthesia. The time it can take a wolf to die from choking is likely to be longer given that it is conscience at the time of choking"

"Choking can lead to the accumulation of fluid in the lungs, severe soft tissue injuries, swelling of the head due to loss of venous return and death can take hours through an extremely slow and painful process"

He didn't know if snaring was approved as humane, I suspect it's not.

I'm not a trapper (yet) but a snare with a lock would prevent the wire from slipping. So theoretically, even if it does not cut blood flow as according to plan it would choke them, and yes it may be a little less humane but snaring is not illegal or not recommended which would leave me thinking it would be pretty humane. Just my thoughts.

[TRAPPER92]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

I don't know how a snare kills a wolf, but I contacted a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine specializing in Internal Neurology and asked.

"Responses include" "respiratory and cardiovascular effects. The collapse of the circulatory system under controlled situations in animal models can take up to 8 1/2 minutes under anesthesia. The time it can take a wolf to die from choking is likely to be longer given that it is conscience at the time of choking"

"Choking can lead to the accumulation of fluid in the lungs, severe soft tissue injuries, swelling of the head due to loss of venous return and death can take hours through an extremely slow and painful process"

He didn't know if snaring was approved as humane, I suspect it's not.

That last part about accumulation of fluids and head swelling is exactly what trappers try to avoid. I haven't had too many "water heads" over the years but when I do I try to figure out what I did wrong because I know the animal suffered.

Like I said before There is a lot of misconceptions about how a snare is supposed to work. A veterinarian most likely has this misconception also.

[partimehunter]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

Trapped on and off forever and yes, I was asking [digging] if snares had been tested yet because the last I heard they hadn't. This thread is old but I didn't see it as addressing the humane issue and still don't. Many traps are certified but as far as I have heard snares are not. Does anyone know?

maybe you can refresh your memory by reading the AIHTS at fur institute of Canada

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by partimehunter

maybe you can refresh your memory by reading the AIHTS at fur institute of Canada

I did as advised and am quite confused. I found out that all traps/snares had to be tested by 2007 and if not completed by then could still be used as long as research into improving them continues. I could find no research into snaring other than the possible testing of snares in Quebec which had stops on them turning them into restraining devices rather than humane killing devices.

A humane death for a wolf must occur within 300 seconds of capture 80% of the time. Existing snares as defined in the reg's could not possibly meet this criteria. Until govt tests snares there is no certification they are inhumane, and can be called a killing device [no time limit to death] This would be why they haven't been tested.

Someone out there correct me if I am wrong, I found the entire thing confusing and hard to understand.

[partimehunter]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

I did as advised and am quite confused. I found out that all traps/snares had to be tested by 2007 and if not completed by then could still be used as long as research into improving them continues. I could find no research into snaring other than the possible testing of snares in Quebec which had stops on them turning them into restraining devices rather than humane killing devices.

A humane death for a wolf must occur within 300 seconds of capture 80% of the time. Existing snares as defined in the reg's could not possibly meet this criteria. Until govt tests snares there is no certification they are inhumane, and can be called a killing device [no time limit to death] This would be why they haven't been tested.

Someone out there correct me if I am wrong, I found the entire thing confusing and hard to understand.

you don't think stinger snares or ram power snares can meet this criteria?

[J D]

A well made well hung snare kills fast. They are not a choking device but instead are meant to cut off the blood flow to the brian.

Done right snaring is a fast humane kill

[philintheblank]

There is a video on YouTube where a trapper walks up on one of his ram power snares where a coyote has just run into, takes less than 2 minutes for it to expire. One or two lunges and it laid down and went to sleep, looked pretty humane to me. Any snare that doesn't leave a catch circle is an indication of a quick humane kill

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by partimehunter

you don't think stinger snares or ram power snares can meet this criteria?

Stinger snares and fine wire mostly seem to have a good reputation, but all I'm familiar with are the cam-loc and alberg with 3/32 which won't do it. The Ram snares scare me and are too expensive, hard to hide, just don't think they are practical. The biggest factor to me was always getting the proper position on the coyotes neck. Just wasn't consistent and it seemed to show up in the time it took the coyote to die, also how it tangled up.

Why don't the govt get on with it, the way it is now there's not even a check time requirement because they are "killing devices". Very misleading I think, and they aren't going to avoid it forever.

[braveheart_77]

snares are the worst, but animals will survive if they are gotten out in enough time, a dog will usually struggle so might get some cuts. if its a leg hold trap it will not get heart its just a matter of opening it up

[sourdough doug]

Some people will just keep digging, until the damn hole is too deep to jump or crawl out of and that appears what could happen here ...S.S.S....

[ganderblaster]

X2

[J D]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

Stinger snares and fine wire mostly seem to have a good reputation, but all I'm familiar with are the cam-loc and alberg with 3/32 which won't do it. The Ram snares scare me and are too expensive, hard to hide, just don't think they are practical. The biggest factor to me was always getting the proper position on the coyotes neck. Just wasn't consistent and it seemed to show up in the time it took the coyote to die, also how it tangled up.

Why don't the govt get on with it, the way it is now there's not even a check time requirement because they are "killing devices". Very misleading I think, and they aren't going to avoid it forever.

Personally have had no problem with 3/32 cable cam lock and kill spring. Anchor the snare solid and as high as I can running 10-15ft snares with a 10 inch loop. I also avoid setting locations that do not allow me to make perfect catches.

I will stand by it that if snares are set with care and correctly you should have fast kills. If they did not I would not use them do to fur damage and respect for the animals I trap.

If you are getting poor catches you need to change how you are snaring. Snares are just like any other tool used correctly you get good results.

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by J D

Personally have had no problem with 3/32 cable cam lock and kill spring. Anchor the snare solid and as high as I can running 10-15ft snares with a 10 inch loop. I also avoid setting locations that do not allow me to make perfect catches.

I will stand by it that if snares are set with care and correctly you should have fast kills. If they did not I would not use them do to fur damage and respect for the animals I trap.

If you are getting poor catches you need to change how you are snaring. Snares are just like any other tool used correctly you get good results.

Didn't say "poor catches", "great catches", or "bad catches". Was wondering if snares are humane under the treaty Canada has signed and from what I have seen and read, including on this board , I am doubtful. Being somewhat suspicious of the government I think this may be the reason they haven't tested them; they have had six years. We are not all perfect unfortunately.

[J D]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

Didn't say "poor catches", "great catches", or "bad catches". Was wondering if snares are humane under the treaty Canada has signed and from what I have seen and read, including on this board , I am doubtful. Being somewhat suspicious of the government I think this may be the reason they haven't tested them; they have had six years. We are not all perfect unfortunately.

Testing is still far from complete. They are still working on certifying coni's and footholds for some species. They are even starting to test box traps. It may just be on the list of untested traps.

The fact that testing is not complete for many other styles of trap I would not get too suspicious about snaring yet. Takes a lot of time and $ to test all trapping methods

I would not be shocked that regs on types of lock and how snares are constructed changes in the future.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

Didn't say "poor catches", "great catches", or "bad catches". Was wondering if snares are humane under the treaty Canada has signed and from what I have seen and read, including on this board , I am doubtful. Being somewhat suspicious of the government I think this may be the reason they haven't tested them; they have had six years. We are not all perfect unfortunately.

How do you find the time? This is the peak of Lemming Leaping Season and yet here you are saving wolves and challenging trapping procedures. If your here who's passing out the mini flotation devices in Norway? So many causes so little time.

[KWO]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

How do you find the time? This is the peak of Lemming Leaping Season and yet here you are saving wolves and challenging trapping procedures. If your here who's passing out the mini flotation devices in Norway? So many causes so little time.

x2

[philintheblank]

I think you need to have a few discussions with industry to answer your questions. Maybe it's just me but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about snaring. Just because the government/industry hasn't done any research on snares doesn't mean they are not humane, The majority of trappers will say the same thing if you ask, that snares if set properly are probably the most humane way of taking canines.

I agree that it seems they take a while to certify new traps, but I am going to guess the reason they didn't start with snares because there are many company's making and designing foot holds and connibears where as snares are just aircraft cable

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by philintheblank

I think you need to have a few discussions with industry to answer your questions. Maybe it's just me but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about snaring. Just because the government/industry hasn't done any research on snares doesn't mean they are not humane, The majority of trappers will say the same thing if you ask, that snares if set properly are probably the most humane way of taking canines.

I agree that it seems they take a while to certify new traps, but I am going to guess the reason they didn't start with snares because there are many company's making and designing foot holds and connibears where as snares are just aircraft cable

I took your advice and contacted the Fur Institute and they confirmed that according to their criteria snares are not humane!! -If as you say snares are just aircraft cable what do you do to make them humane? And yes I have a huge chip on my shoulder with snares. They are not humane until tested and sooner or later Canada is not going to ship a mouse hide out of the country.
From some of the photos on trapping forums it looks doubtful if they could ever pass. Check it out.

[J D]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

I took your advice and contacted the Fur Institute and they confirmed that according to their criteria snares are not humane!! -If as you say snares are just aircraft cable what do you do to make them humane? And yes I have a huge chip on my shoulder with snares. They are not humane until tested and sooner or later Canada is not going to ship a mouse hide out of the country.
From some of the photos on trapping forums it looks doubtful if they could ever pass. Check it out.

I not much for stirring the pot but I am going to call BS. I will place bets you are twisting words so they are more to your agenda.

Yes, until they are tested snares are not certified to meet humane standards but they have also not been deemed inhumane till they are tested.

Would love to know the name of the man you talked to

[philintheblank]

Originally Posted by raven65lunatic

I took your advice and contacted the Fur Institute and they confirmed that according to their criteria snares are not humane!! -If as you say snares are just aircraft cable what do you do to make them humane? And yes I have a huge chip on my shoulder with snares. They are not humane until tested and sooner or later Canada is not going to ship a mouse hide out of the country.
From some of the photos on trapping forums it looks doubtful if they could ever pass. Check it out.

I use them with ram springs. The trails I set them on are rarely disturbed much and I have no problem catching other animals at the same location. Compared to entanglement/restraint snares, which I don't use and don't see the point of personally, these are much more humane and effective. but in some cases you cannot fault the trappers for this as it is illegal to use killing snares in many parts of the US because of local/state laws.

Stinger kill snares work pretty much the same, although I had one freeze up on me last year and didn't preform well so now I don't use them.

Also just wondering if snares haven't been tested yet, how can there be a criteria to declare them in humane? Or did they compare them to the killing trap criteria?

And on another note, how did they come to the conclusion that the belisle foot snare is a certified humane trap?

Some emails I must write, unanswered questions there are!

[South west trappin RG]

Any one who argues with people who have never spent time on the line is like kicking a dead horse.

[raven65lunatic]

Originally Posted by philintheblank

I use them with ram springs. The trails I set them on are rarely disturbed much and I have no problem catching other animals at the same location. Compared to entanglement/restraint snares, which I don't use and don't see the point of personally, these are much more humane and effective. but in some cases you cannot fault the trappers for this as it is illegal to use killing snares in many parts of the US because of local/state laws.

Stinger kill snares work pretty much the same, although I had one freeze up on me last year and didn't preform well so now I don't use them.

Also just wondering if snares haven't been tested yet, how can there be a criteria to declare them in humane? Or did they compare them to the killing trap criteria?

And on another note, how did they come to the conclusion that the belisle foot snare is a certified humane trap?

Some emails I must write, unanswered questions there are!

Good questions and comments - they are called killing devices, but haven't been tested to see if they are humane so they haven't been compared to any criteria. Thats the only way they can keep using them, no one knows. The humane time till death is 300 seconds for a coyote or wolf if I read the FIT material correct. I call them inhumane, the govt and FIT don't call them anything.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't know a belisle foot snare if I stepped in it and I don't know anyone who has used them.

[TRAPPER92]

Sounds like this Raven guy is some sorta green peace guy. Snares are humane and an effective way of controlling coyote populations period.

Raven: go with a trapper and find out just how humane they are!

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by TRAPPER92

Sounds like this Raven guy is some sorta green peace guy. Snares are humane and an effective way of controlling coyote populations period.

Raven: go with a trapper and find out just how humane they are!

I find this thread suspect, right from the very first post!

[KWO]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

I find this thread suspect, right from the very first post!

Yup. He is bashing snares in another thread as well. His agenda is clear.

[Torkdiesel]

I also suspect he is the same that made the inhumane snare plug in the letters to the editor section of AO magazine this month. I'm thinking Anti, time to thin the herd Mods

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I also suspect he is the same that made the inhumane snare plug in the letters to the editor section of AO magazine this month. I'm thinking Anti, time to thin the herd Mods

I picked up on that as well
X2.