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10-04-2022, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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Great Falls undercover oops!
First let me say hello to the forum, good to finally join, I will finally get to see all the pictures. This might be worthy of a first post.
This post is related to one runcle of the bailey issued a few days ago about the Great Falls gun show in late September. Involving the RCMP and ATF and not informing everyone of their activities. Attached is a police report of what transpired that day.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/attac...1&d=1664930352
Hope that worked.
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10-04-2022, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,713
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So a Canadian cop went across the border without authorization to conduct and investigation? That’s whacked.
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10-04-2022, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
So a Canadian cop went across the border without authorization to conduct and investigation? That’s whacked.
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He never checked but figured it’s ok….. what next Chinese cops setting up shop in Canada?
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10-04-2022, 07:20 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,279
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Next thing you know, Federal Cabinet Ministers will be back dating documents submitted to judges, dated April 31st....
https://tnc.news/2022/10/04/minister...ted-documents/
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-04-2022, 07:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,701
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wife was listening to great falls news the other day and it made the news down there too. man, where is this going to end?
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10-04-2022, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the woods
Posts: 8,923
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I’ve met that RAC. Glad I wasn’t around for that conversation lol. Reminds me of some I get to escape when my sergeant and captain are involved!
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10-04-2022, 08:33 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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Great Falls undercover oops!
It has occurred in the past when returning to Canada from the U.S. when crossing at Coutts/Sweetgrass that you will be questioned leaving the U.S. at that outbuilding that almost never gets used, but has been manned for amber alerts, escaped criminals, and coincidentally when a gun show is in Great Falls.
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10-04-2022, 07:19 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,677
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So where are we going with this?
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent... 
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10-04-2022, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
So a Canadian cop went across the border without authorization to conduct and investigation? That’s whacked.
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https://www.montanarightnow.com/grea...d335a2466.html
It was a combine RCMP and ATF undercover operation.
They didn’t tell Montana police so the Montana police asked them to stop and they did.
Not really a story.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-04-2022, 09:11 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
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Seems like it's a bit more complicated than that....
City police, "loaned" to the RCMP, working with the ATF, working in a foreign nation, and all three agency's "forgot" to inform LEO in said foreign nation? Just randomly speculating, watching people at shows.
I feel Canadian police watching Canadian citizens in a foreign country is quite similar to Chinese police watching Chinese citizens in a foreign country, and feel both are news worthy.
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10-04-2022, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
Seems like it's a bit more complicated than that....
City police, "loaned" to the RCMP, working with the ATF, working in a foreign nation, and all three agency's "forgot" to inform LEO in said foreign nation? Just randomly speculating, watching people at shows.
I feel Canadian police watching Canadian citizens in a foreign country is quite similar to Chinese police watching Chinese citizens in a foreign country, and feel both are news worthy.
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I don’t know. Feels like the typical story missing info and jumping to conclusions.
For instance… is it the RCMP’s responsibility to inform all levels of enforcement in the US or is it the lead US agency… in this case the ATF.
Is this really that serious or just exaggeration of a story to sell news to the frothing masses.
Not saying you are wrong…
But with what we know it sounds like nothing more than an administrative ops on the part of the ATF… or someone in Montana forgot to read an email memo?
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-04-2022, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
Seems like it's a bit more complicated than that....
City police, "loaned" to the RCMP, working with the ATF, working in a foreign nation, and all three agency's "forgot" to inform LEO in said foreign nation? Just randomly speculating, watching people at shows.
I feel Canadian police watching Canadian citizens in a foreign country is quite similar to Chinese police watching Chinese citizens in a foreign country, and feel both are news worthy.
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It is absolutely ridiculous, that police would be operating in a foreign country, without the local authorities being aware of their presence. It's too bad the Montana police didn't haul in these foreigners, and treat them to a cavity search.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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10-04-2022, 09:26 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wheatland County
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Wut in he!! are they doing in Great Falls? There's not a lot of roads northbound & not many border crossings. This cloak & dagger stuff really did the deed on the Wortman file, they KNEW what he had & where it came from.
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If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
You can, you should, & if you're brave enough to start, you will. Stephen King
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10-05-2022, 08:13 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
Seems like it's a bit more complicated than that....
City police, "loaned" to the RCMP, working with the ATF, working in a foreign nation, and all three agency's "forgot" to inform LEO in said foreign nation? Just randomly speculating, watching people at shows.
I feel Canadian police watching Canadian citizens in a foreign country is quite similar to Chinese police watching Chinese citizens in a foreign country, and feel both are news worthy.
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x2, no different.
Grizz
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Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there is no place, that they be alone in the midst of the Earth.
Isaiah 5:8
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10-05-2022, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
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True enough. It's embarrassing but it's not the fault of any Canadian police institution. They were a unit in an operation that was led by the ATF. The ATF failed to pass this on to the local police and supervise the operation. Thats where the problem lies.........with the ATF. Most of the comments here are so way off they are laughable. We tell the government to leave us law abiding firearms owners alone and go after the smugglers. Well that is what was going on.
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10-05-2022, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the woods
Posts: 8,923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
True enough. It's embarrassing but it's not the fault of any Canadian police institution. They were a unit in an operation that was led by the ATF. The ATF failed to pass this on to the local police and supervise the operation. Thats where the problem lies.........with the ATF. Most of the comments here are so way off they are laughable. We tell the government to leave us law abiding firearms owners alone and go after the smugglers. Well that is what was going on.
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Hmm reading the report it says they (atf) notified the great falls police department. The sheriff claimed the pd has no jurisdiction in the fair grounds, which are entirely within the limits of the city of great falls. Generally sheriffs do not handle city calls as they have their own police and focus on county calls. Sounds like a sheriff upset he was left in the dark and now claiming he controls something that his office would generally avoid.
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10-05-2022, 10:45 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
Hmm reading the report it says they (atf) notified the great falls police department. The sheriff claimed the pd has no jurisdiction in the fair grounds, which are entirely within the limits of the city of great falls. Generally sheriffs do not handle city calls as they have their own police and focus on county calls. Sounds like a sheriff upset he was left in the dark and now claiming he controls something that his office would generally avoid.
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How did nobody else see this? This isn’t an international incident with the RCMP going all cowboy, it’s the county sherrif and the city police having a jurisdictional dispute.
There’s not enough information here to make any determination about what the Canadian officer and ATF were looking for.
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10-05-2022, 11:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
Hmm reading the report it says they (atf) notified the great falls police department. The sheriff claimed the pd has no jurisdiction in the fair grounds, which are entirely within the limits of the city of great falls. Generally sheriffs do not handle city calls as they have their own police and focus on county calls. Sounds like a sheriff upset he was left in the dark and now claiming he controls something that his office would generally avoid.
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The politics between a city pd, sheriffs and ATF aside, Canadian police were working with the ATF and responsible to the ATF. The buck stops with the ATF.
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10-05-2022, 09:21 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
We tell the government to leave us law abiding firearms owners alone and go after the smugglers. Well that is what was going on.
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Sounds like more of a hope and a prayer to me and harassing what are more likely than not, legal gun owners when they cross the border.
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10-05-2022, 10:19 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
Sounds like more of a hope and a prayer to me and harassing what are more likely than not, legal gun owners when they cross the border.
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They may catch the handloader smuggling a bag of brass or bullets across the border, from the show. Judging by the delays in processing PAL renewals, and transferring firearms, the government/RCMP seems to capitalize on every opportunity to harass legal firearms owners.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 10-05-2022 at 10:26 AM.
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10-05-2022, 11:09 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu
Sounds like more of a hope and a prayer to me and harassing what are more likely than not, legal gun owners when they cross the border.
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What would legal gun owners be doing at a gun show in the US? Looking is fine, purchasing items that are not controlled is fine but as soon as a purchase of a controlled item is made then that crosses a line. I have no problem with the entire operation. Let the cops do their job and bust criminals. If you're not a criminal you have nothing to worry about.
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10-05-2022, 04:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
True enough. It's embarrassing but it's not the fault of any Canadian police institution. They were a unit in an operation that was led by the ATF. The ATF failed to pass this on to the local police and supervise the operation. Thats where the problem lies.........with the ATF. Most of the comments here are so way off they are laughable. We tell the government to leave us law abiding firearms owners alone and go after the smugglers. Well that is what was going on.
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Jumping on exaggerated news has folks on here laughing at those that do it… unless it fits there confirmation bias.
I’m all for roasting stupidity. But Canada and the RCMP did nothing wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
Hmm reading the report it says they (atf) notified the great falls police department. The sheriff claimed the pd has no jurisdiction in the fair grounds, which are entirely within the limits of the city of great falls. Generally sheriffs do not handle city calls as they have their own police and focus on county calls. Sounds like a sheriff upset he was left in the dark and now claiming he controls something that his office would generally avoid.
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Wish all the information came out at once so these “reporter” can’t invent news.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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10-05-2022, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Rocky Mtn House,AB
Posts: 2,230
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Well, I'll chime in on this.
Without knowing what the "Operational Plan" actually was with this alleged joint initiative, I will not comment on it. One thing for sure it did not come from K Division(Alberta). Cross border stuff comes from Ottawa.
But I will comment about the alleged LPS involvement. I don't get how they would be involved. Usually, any cross border investigations are the RCMP responsibility, not a local Municipal Police Dept like Lethbridge.
We are not getting the entire story here boys and girls...and I will leave it at that... 
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