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  #31  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
okay i lyed..but this will be my last post..lmfao.
so your saying the little girl will have as much success catching a 20 inch older fish as a stocker put and taker? i repeat it doesnt matter to them.

and the hotel crack is aprime example of a service provided to a small group who whinned the loudest....for fawksakes we have veterans going hungry. this country has lost priorities. what makes you smile more....a grown capable man with a 20 inch trout or a little kid grinning from ear to ear with a 9inch fish.
simply put let a few crack heads die!!!!! feed the veterans and let a kid catch fish.......priorities!!!!!!!!!!

its like a donkey punch in the dark....no studies on water or bulltrout predation.

all i ask is just leave the few places a family , child and elderly or handicapped person can catch and harvest a clean mtn. trout. in a easily accessed lake. no matter the size!!! You want 20 inch fish go somewhere else.....the country is teaming with 20 inch fish.
thanks
There are 5 stocked trout lakes in the Cypress Hills area of Alberta: Bullshead, Spruce Coulee, Michele, Reesor, and Cavan. Go on out to those lakes in the Spring time to see where:
1. The majority of the anglers are = Bullshead
2. The majority of the children are = Bullshead
3. The majority of the 65+ year old retirees = Bullshead

One lake out of five has special regulations and people keep crying about "what about the people who want to sit in their lawn chair all day". There's 5 other lakes within 20 min...but no one goes there...cause they're all fished out, or all small. Everyone goes to Bullshead for a reason.

How many lakes are stocked in Alberta...and how many are stocked as Delayed Harvest lakes? Why do people who have 95% of the trout lakes slated as put and take always whine about it not being fair. I don't get it.

We need more of these lakes...making a drive out to these 5 lakes on a Saturday afternoon will show you what the demand is.
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  #32  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
okay i lyed..but this will be my last post..lmfao.
so your saying the little girl will have as much success catching a 20 inch older fish as a stocker put and taker? i repeat it doesnt matter to them.

and the hotel crack is aprime example of a service provided to a small group who whinned the loudest....for fawksakes we have veterans going hungry. this country has lost priorities. what makes you smile more....a grown capable man with a 20 inch trout or a little kid grinning from ear to ear with a 9inch fish.
simply put let a few crack heads die!!!!! feed the veterans and let a kid catch fish.......priorities!!!!!!!!!!

its like a donkey punch in the dark....no studies on water or bulltrout predation.

all i ask is just leave the few places a family , child and elderly or handicapped person can catch and harvest a clean mtn. trout. in a easily accessed lake. no matter the size!!! You want 20 inch fish go somewhere else.....the country is teaming with 20 inch fish.
thanks
I am sorry chubdarter...

I look at your argument from different angles...and all you are really arguing for on the main topic is smaller fish. You seem to want to argue for smaller fish period. Bloom argues cleanly the facts. I know the 9 year old girl smiles a lot more catching a 20 inch rainbow than an 8 inch rainbow.

That being said...your other comment about more money in the system is valid. I know the biggest drain however is the put and take fisheries...in which a minority of the fishermen take the majority of the stocked fish. Lakes like Mt Lorette and Maclean Pond get stocked a couple times a year and cleaned out by a regular crowd. To fill their freezer is not the intent of managing for the whole Province. Therefore we look for better ways to improve the fishery while providing the appropriate balance and respect to all users. More money would be wise for fisheries biologists to do their job and for enforcement.

As for liking 9 inch rainbows...I would say...when in doubt...go to Bullshead next year and see for yourself and then you may wonder why you were upset to begin with.
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  #33  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:58 PM
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Lower should have the no fish under 50 cm and the Upper should be left the way it is. Best of both worlds. I have only been to the Lower lake once and that was in September, Not a fish was seen anywhere, And there were alot of bugs on the surface...
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  #34  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:32 AM
Jimboy Jimboy is offline
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Bring back the stocking of kananaskis big time , thats what our lic pays for, as long as the hatcherys are doing their job , we will always have fish for supper tues and fridays.
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  #35  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:46 AM
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Jake, I'm with you on this one, any chance of having something like this on Ghost Lake also as it has been destroyed by people keeping everything they catch.
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  #36  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Outcast 1100 Outcast 1100 is offline
 
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I agree completely on lowering the catch rates on any lake in alberta. catching large fish is great fun catching minnows is boring. i have a hard time believing some people on here, if you have to feed your family with fish cause your so broke wouldnt it make sense to catch one large fish than 5 tiny ones??? or is it because you dont really know how to fish and its way to easy to go out there for a half hour and catch the easiest things in the lake???
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  #37  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:25 PM
C@RN@GE C@RN@GE is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Outcast 1100 View Post
I agree completely on lowering the catch rates on any lake in alberta. catching large fish is great fun catching minnows is boring. i have a hard time believing some people on here, if you have to feed your family with fish cause your so broke wouldnt it make sense to catch one large fish than 5 tiny ones??? or is it because you dont really know how to fish and its way to easy to go out there for a half hour and catch the easiest things in the lake???
You nailed it.
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  #38  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:02 PM
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thats excately my point.....i dont know how to catch big fish.....the little fish make me smile like hello kitty
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:26 PM
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Chubdarter...you said previously that the country is teeming with 20" fish. For my own clarification, are you saying there is lots of lakes around where you can catch 20" rainbow trout on a regular basis within a couple of hours of Calgary?
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  #40  
Old 12-24-2010, 05:19 AM
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Hi All...Thought I would add some very valid info on this topic.


This summer, a creel survey was conducted on Upper Kananaskis Lake. The key findings were:
the catch rate was 1.0 fish/hour, which is over 7 times higher than it was in 1983 when only rainbow trout were being stocked
cutthroat trout comprised 95% of the catch
most (94%) of the harvested cutthroat trout had a clipped adipose fin, which means that they were from the batch of 13,900 large (30 cm) cutthroat trout stocked this June.




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  #41  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:32 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I would also say that the times are gone when you could justify the time to fish and buy gas versus the pounds of fish returned home. There are just too many people in Alberta fishing and to be fair to your fellow anglers...the resource can not justify everyone keeping their limits every time they go out. You seem to be dissing the catch and release folks...but if not for them, your personal limits would probably drop to 10% of where they are at now. So remember IMHO...as a fishing community, we are all working together to make this a great "recreational" activity...and not purely a grocery shopping trip.

Cheers

Sun
Sundance,,,, great point, C&R type anglers have indeed been "subsidizing" the fishery allowing the catch and keep types to catch more fish and still keep a few.
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:21 AM
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Ironically the bow is not too short of 20" ers as well.
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  #43  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by C@RN@GE View Post
You nailed it.
The arguement of fishing for food just doesn't seem right,, not for food sake but cost of gas and time which far outweighs buying fish at the supermarket. When I'm reading through other parts of Alberta, where limits are one of a very specific range, it makes no sense, the arguement that is.

I will keep the odd fish but more than often it goes back. It's everyones right by their license but it doesn't mean they should. I just stopped fishing with one old friend who not only fishes until he has bagged his limit but is super irritable if the bite is off anddd he keeps e-ver-y-thing,, nothing is too small- too big- too anything,,,, he caught it and it's his.

Our arguement started when he decided to keep/add to his limit what I was throwing back/not keeping (overfishing his limit),, I challenged him on his freezer/possession saying that there is no way that the amounts you keep by how often you fish that your freezer is empty, no way you could consume all that food, urghhhh........... major mexican standoff right now
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  #44  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:03 PM
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okay im gonna try be civil...call me whatever you like....pftttt
first off Im not the one requesting rule changes to be able to catch a 20 inch fish....Ive caught more rainbows and steelhead over 20lbs than i deserve.
It's not a meat fishery im asking to protect.....its the basic right of children and fisherman that cant fish certain waters that rely on -close to urban areas- i defend.
do i know waters within a easy drive of calgary that contain 20 inch fish....yuppers!!!!!!
sorry if this seems like a chest puffing match but i didnt draw the first arrow.
maybe if you guys cant regularly catch a 20 inch fish you need to admit fishing isnt something your really good at. Most importantly stop trying to change the regulations to make up for your lack of ability at the expense of people who want to catch 1 little fish.
Flame away!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #45  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:26 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Yup you are obviously the only one who can catch large fish. LMAO

But it is clear you still dont get the benefit of it. Kids are pretty smart unlike some adults. If and when they get an explanation that they have to put back certain sized fish, they quickly accept that(as long as your stress the conservation aspect).

Some kids even opt to put them back(catch and release) on their own-go figure.

Id bet that most would like to catch lots of 15 - 19" fish and the not as rare to them 20+.

Guess you cant see the benefit of a larger average size!

Too bad.

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 12-24-2010 at 09:36 PM.
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  #46  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:35 PM
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This post is friggin awesome.... i got a good idea lets make the whole thing dry fly only and you cant keep any. That will keep those familys off that soon to be trophy fishery. p.s. i cant wait till i see a 20 incher. hahaha
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  #47  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:37 PM
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nope all my fisherman friends also catch big fish............but thanks
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  #48  
Old 12-25-2010, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
okay im gonna try be civil...call me whatever you like....pftttt
first off Im not the one requesting rule changes to be able to catch a 20 inch fish....Ive caught more rainbows and steelhead over 20lbs than i deserve.
It's not a meat fishery im asking to protect.....its the basic right of children and fisherman that cant fish certain waters that rely on -close to urban areas- i defend.
do i know waters within a easy drive of calgary that contain 20 inch fish....yuppers!!!!!!
sorry if this seems like a chest puffing match but i didnt draw the first arrow.
maybe if you guys cant regularly catch a 20 inch fish you need to admit fishing isnt something your really good at. Most importantly stop trying to change the regulations to make up for your lack of ability at the expense of people who want to catch 1 little fish.
Flame away!!!!!!!!!!!
The fish that are stocked will be small, there will always be small fish in there for everyone to catch. It would be nice to have increased numbers of larger fish as well. If anything a fishery like this will offer more for everyone.
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  #49  
Old 12-25-2010, 09:54 AM
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This post is friggin awesome.... i got a good idea lets make the whole thing dry fly only and you cant keep any. That will keep those familys off that soon to be trophy fishery. p.s. i cant wait till i see a 20 incher. hahaha
Some people add to the debate...and some people are just out to stir the pot. Quite an argumentative leap in the response Tosh.

I would say a more plausible suggestion would be to make the whole province a minimum of 16 inch for stocked rainbows. That way when a father takes his son to Mt. Lorette or Maclean creek that there are some fish to catch. If they catch a 16 inch...great...dinner... But at least they get to see a fish. Current regulations favor stock and refrigerate...fisheries management. I wonder how many trout go to the freezer and then to the garbage.

Let's balance everything out fairly. Have trout to catch and some trout to eat. Why does the argument swing to one side to the other.
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  #50  
Old 12-25-2010, 08:28 PM
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As another southeast Alberta guy who knows the area fairly well I can only speak of what I have seen in the area.
There are a few trout lakes in the area,most are a complete waste of time and under-utilized,even on beautiful calm days you hardly see anyone fishing most.
One is busy,even on miserable days.
Since Bullshead had special regs enforced it has become the go to place for anybody wanting to catch a trout....big,small,young or old.
I have no interest in catching a 10" trout,let alone keeping it.....seems like alot of people tend to agree!
I'd be all for these changes,after all since when does fishing have to mean "keeping" all the time?
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  #51  
Old 12-25-2010, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Some people add to the debate...and some people are just out to stir the pot. Quite an argumentative leap in the response Tosh.

I would say a more plausible suggestion would be to make the whole province a minimum of 16 inch for stocked rainbows. That way when a father takes his son to Mt. Lorette or Maclean creek that there are some fish to catch. If they catch a 16 inch...great...dinner... But at least they get to see a fish. Current regulations favor stock and refrigerate...fisheries management. I wonder how many trout go to the freezer and then to the garbage.

Let's balance everything out fairly. Have trout to catch and some trout to eat. Why does the argument swing to one side to the other.
if your argument is that people take fish home and waste them, then why not spend that money on the education of anglers when they get there licenses. Then you would have in my mind a better fisherman(woman) and teach them to respect and love the waters as most of us do?. I just think that the money and time to do this would be better spent elsewhere.And you say lets balance everything out???...this province is full of rules protecting fish just look in the regs.
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  #52  
Old 12-25-2010, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Some people add to the debate...and some people are just out to stir the pot. Quite an argumentative leap in the response Tosh.

I would say a more plausible suggestion would be to make the whole province a minimum of 16 inch for stocked rainbows. That way when a father takes his son to Mt. Lorette or Maclean creek that there are some fish to catch. If they catch a 16 inch...great...dinner... But at least they get to see a fish. Current regulations favor stock and refrigerate...fisheries management. I wonder how many trout go to the freezer and then to the garbage.

Let's balance everything out fairly. Have trout to catch and some trout to eat. Why does the argument swing to one side to the other.
This is a pretty good idea. The majority of kids just wanna catch a fish, Hold it, laugh, and then toss it back in the water. This "16" " rule would enable all the families out there to be able to go to a lake and consistently catch fish, Making the kids have a very memorable day on the water.
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  #53  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tosh View Post
if your argument is that people take fish home and waste them, then why not spend that money on the education of anglers when they get there licenses. Then you would have in my mind a better fisherman(woman) and teach them to respect and love the waters as most of us do?. I just think that the money and time to do this would be better spent elsewhere.And you say lets balance everything out???...this province is full of rules protecting fish just look in the regs.
Anarchists love to remove rules. Fact is without rules rampant abuse would destroy what you want. Fisheries management has to be a changing game. Think about it. The playing field is constantly changing and evolving. We have fish stocks that are running low...fish like pike, walleye, grayling, cutthroat trout and sturgeon to name a few have had their stocks reach scary lows. Others like mountain whitefish and maybe even perch will be next on the list. We have an increasing number of anglers that challenge the system by putting ever increasing pressure on the stocks. The increasing anglers and taxing the waters nearest to large cities causing enhanced depletion problems.

All these changes in the playing field necessitate thinking differently when managing the few dollars available with the people that want to catch fish. The old saying that a bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work probably came from someone trying to lighten the fact...it is just getting that much harder to find any fish to catch.

So...to me that says we must look to outside the box for ideas. The last one was the "quality" fishery proposal at Bullshead that that strongly fought and opposed by many individuals...only to have been implemented any ways. The changes scared many...but now probably 99% of those that were opposed are not proponents. I suspect there would be a 10 fold increase in protests if they tried to put Bullshead back to the way it was before.

You are a bit short sighted IMHO by commenting on my small point of fish wastage and then figure education would fix an over harvest problem in Alberta. People that want to kill fish for the freeze invariably max their limit every time. If the limits are too high or the fish are limited in numbers then the fish leave. Simple mathematics of supply and demand.

You talk about education being different than implementing a quality fishery regulation...that argument has no merit as there is no additional cost to tax payers. The stocking stays the same as before but the fish are not harvested the day they are stocked. They are allowed to grow bigger. While they are growing bigger they get caught over and over again by the young and old alike. Then once they reach the target size...harvest can occur but at a sustainable rate. The biggest problem in fisheries management is provide high enough catch rates...fish caught per unit hour...to justify from F&W's point of view the expense of stocking...and from the anglers point of view the effort to try and catch them.

If you want to qualify this whole debate it comes down to few simple points.


1. Do you want to catch fish when you go fishing before it is fished out? If you say yes...then a quality fishery is the only one that maximizes this.

2. Do you want to harvest fish during the whole fishing season? Then the quality fishery is the only one that provides this.

3. Do you want to catch sporting sized fish? Then the quality fishery is the only one that provides this.


Time does not need to prove this as Bullshead already has.

Cheers

Sun




STATS/FACTS for in 2009/2010 http://www.srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/M...rt-2009-10.pdf

We had a F&W budget of $60.5 MM.
273,220 angler licences were sold
3.2 million trout were stocked in 259 different water bodies
52 million walleye stocked in Lac la Biche
100,705 MM in license revenue

I was interested in finding out what just the Fish portion of the budget is...but I could not find it.
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  #54  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FOTW View Post
This is a pretty good idea. The majority of kids just wanna catch a fish, Hold it, laugh, and then toss it back in the water. This "16" " rule would enable all the families out there to be able to go to a lake and consistently catch fish, Making the kids have a very memorable day on the water.
If the lake can feed and grow trout...then it does provide everyone with equal rights to just catch or catch and eat a fish.

If anyone wants to see total management stupidity IMHO...just check out Mt. Lorette the day after stocking. People are yarding out trout...taking them back to their camp and then coming back for a second and third limit. Two weeks later...a day and two young sons can fish with dynamite and never see a trout. The two week kill fest is adults...catching pellet fed trout. If this is what we feel is an appropriate stocked fishery...why not allocate a certain number of trout to each license and we just swing by the Sam Livingstone fish hatchery and take our fish home directly. Save on gas...and a 12 inch newly stocked trout on a bait hook with 10 pound test is no challenge to call it recreational fishing.
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  #55  
Old 12-26-2010, 04:26 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Well said Sundancefisher!

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 12-26-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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  #56  
Old 12-26-2010, 08:27 PM
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i guess me personally...the problem i have is little kids not being able to use bait in any lake to catch a fish...some kids daddys can afford a boat so trolling bottom bouncing is not a problem...but what about the three or five year old that fishes from shore....sure you can go to a designated pond where the kid has no standing room to breath....personaly i think a certain age child should be able to go anywhere fishing is allowed and use a hook and a worm..if its all catch and release it doesnt matter...but the kids of today need to get the chance to catch more fish easily...without having to be a flyrod master...just a simple hook and line and easy going to start them off....just my 2 cents
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  #57  
Old 12-26-2010, 08:35 PM
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i guess me personally...the problem i have is little kids not being able to use bait in any lake to catch a fish...some kids daddys can afford a boat so trolling bottom bouncing is not a problem...but what about the three or five year old that fishes from shore....sure you can go to a designated pond where the kid has no standing room to breath....personaly i think a certain age child should be able to go anywhere fishing is allowed and use a hook and a worm..if its all catch and release it doesnt matter...but the kids of today need to get the chance to catch more fish easily...without having to be a flyrod master...just a simple hook and line and easy going to start them off....just my 2 cents
There are a ton of places for kids to go to catch a fish. All within 1 hour of Calgary city limits. Adults would find a way to bend the rules.
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  #58  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:12 PM
whitewolf whitewolf is offline
 
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ya i know....some people would take advantage of that...
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  #59  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:52 PM
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I think we've got enough rules and restrictions- so I guess I'm an anarchist for not wanting even more.

From the Kananaskis Lakes, 3 different fishing licences are needed to fish with a 20 km radius (Alberta, B.C. & National Parks) for which you need to be familiar with 3 very different sets of regulations.

For an easily accessible lake, near recreational facilities like campgrounds - like the Kananaskis Lakes - many families are simply looking for their kid to catch a fish from shore that they can take back and cook up over the campfire. They're not trying to fill a freezer and they're not worried about how many people it will feed - it's all about the family experience. I'm for having as few barriers to them getting that experience as possible.

We've already limited a kids ability to land a fish by going barbless (except in the National Parks or in B.C. lakes - but not rivers). Thankfully they can use lead jigs/sinkers here (as K Country is outside of the national parks). And now we'll expect them to remember size limits and carry a tape?

No wonder they choose to stay at home (or remain in the RV at the campground) and play video games.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by thumper View Post
I think we've got enough rules and restrictions- so I guess I'm an anarchist for not wanting even more.

From the Kananaskis Lakes, 3 different fishing licences are needed to fish with a 20 km radius (Alberta, B.C. & National Parks) for which you need to be familiar with 3 very different sets of regulations.

For an easily accessible lake, near recreational facilities like campgrounds - like the Kananaskis Lakes - many families are simply looking for their kid to catch a fish from shore that they can take back and cook up over the campfire. They're not trying to fill a freezer and they're not worried about how many people it will feed - it's all about the family experience. I'm for having as few barriers to them getting that experience as possible.

We've already limited a kids ability to land a fish by going barbless (except in the National Parks or in B.C. lakes - but not rivers). Thankfully they can use lead jigs/sinkers here (as K Country is outside of the national parks). And now we'll expect them to remember size limits and carry a tape?

No wonder they choose to stay at home (or remain in the RV at the campground) and play video games.
So...are you agreeing to a quality fishery? All you problems are basically fixed with a quality fishery. That means there is more chance for the kids to actually see a fish before they get fished out. A fly and bobber catches a ton of fish at Bullshead. The barbless does make it harder but my kids have started to pick it up. If they are hooking up as is more likely at a quality fishery...then it is just fun practice to finally learn to land one.

Size limits are common place around the world. It is a very necessary rule in many fisheries management practices. There are already size limits for trout in rivers, pike in some lakes, walleye, grayling...it is common place. This should not impact anyone's ability to follow a simple common regulation.

I agree with your point that many families just want to catch something...anything...and potentially take it home to eat. However...under the current stock and annihilate stocking and fishing practices...their is little time for little Johnny or Susie to see a fish before they are depleted.

As for bait versus no bait...as an earlier post mentioned...the catch rates have increased significantly. Therefore...that is also not an issue.

As for Banff, BC and Alberta borders...jurisdictional boundaries are a fact of life and I have never heard that being a concern in any fashion.

Let's hope for a quality fishery...to fix your respected concerns.

Sun
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