303 British bullet selection

[Savage Bacon]

Hey guys and gals. I recently purchased a Churchill Lee Enfield no4 mk1 and I'm looking to start developing some light plinking/target loads in the 120-160 gr range and some heavier hunting loads in the 160-200 gr range. I've found lots of load data but I'm having a hard time with bullet selection. I know hunting with 150 gr is fine. I just want an option in something a bit bigger.

Searching on cabelas web site is a pain clicking on every bullet, then choosing weight, then seeing that bullet is not available in .311, 7.62mm or 7.7mm.

I have bullets for my 303 savage that are .308 but I know they would be of small diameter for this application. Placing a savage cartridge in the Lee Enfield magazine (for comparison only) shows that I have about 3/4" more room for length.

I assume spear points would be the option to achieve overall length? What are my bullet selection choices for weight and overall length?

[Dean2]

The .311 bullets a generally FAR more accurate in the 303 Lee Enfield than the 308 jacketed bullets as the .308 do not engage the rifling full or completely seal the bore.

There are not all that many makers of .311 jacketed bullets. For hunting the 160-180 grain are excellent for the speed this cartridge generates. If you check out Tradex they have .311 bullets from just about every one that makes them. Don't overlook the Privi and Sellier and Bellot bullets, I ahve found them excellent performers in many calibers.

In addition, many bullets made for loading the 7.62x39 are actually .311-.312 so that will give you options for the lighter weight plinking bullets your are looking for.

Hope this helps, Dean.

https://www.tradeexcanada.com/produits/87?page=4

[Savage Bacon]

Ok I'll check out that site this afternoon when I get home. What about bullet length? Or are the .311s made for this action?
Thanks!

[catnthehat]

As Dean2 mentioned , the Hornady 7.62x39 ,123 grain Hornady work well fir messing about but I prefer to load down 150's a bit if I am range shooting a lot .
I havehunted and killed animals with most of the billets available and many that are no longer made .
For the refurbished Enfields like the Parker Hales, Churchill's, etc., the 174 Seirra works very well with either Varget or 4895, but many powders work well.
With a bullet like the 174 Seirra you do not need ( and will not get) blazing velocity but more than enough for one shot 200 yard moose kills !

You can run your bullets as long as you want to as long as you can keep the bullet in the case!
Seriously though, standard lengths in the load manuals normally work very well
Cat

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Ok I'll check out that site this afternoon when I get home. What about bullet length? Or are the .311s made for this action?
Thanks!

Yes they will be fine if you are shooting 150 or heavier. Remeber the proper brass for the 303 British or 7.7x56R as the European designation for the 303 British round is much longer than the 7.62x39 brass you were playing around with. 17 mm longer so 1.524 case length for the AK round versus 2.22" for the British, in terms of COAL 2.205 for the AK versus 3.025 for the British. This is more than 3/4" difference. Just the longer brass will make it far longer COAL.. If you want heavier bullets the Russian 7.62x54 also uses ,311 bullets and they come as heavy as 220 grain.

[Savage Bacon]

Ok thanks guys that gives me a direction to go. My plan is to get 3 loads narrowed down. One light "fun cheap" target round, one 150ish hunting, and one heavy round in case I get a draw and wake up with a moose in my front yard lol

[PaintearthCounty]

Lee Enfield rifles are the most accurate , when shooting "Flat Base" bullets, not as accurate shooting "Boat Tail"" bullets

[Dick284]

123-125’s designed for the M43 cartridge, great for plinking.
150’s for slightly more serious persuits, with the exception of the Barnes TSX, which is pretty big medicine.
174 match if you Rifle will shoot them, my No4 Mk1* does but, not all rifles will.
174 round nose for when the going is getting tougher and the ranges are kinda short.
174 FMJ, for longer range plinking
180 Sierra’s or PPU’s, about the best balance for all round across the board big game.
180 RN same as the 174 RN.
215 RN, harder to find but when the going gets tough and things are in close this is the pill.

[260 Rem]

Just a fun fact....I understand it is the 130th anniversary of the introduction of the 303 British black powder cartridge.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by PaintearthCounty

Lee Enfield rifles are the most accurate , when shooting "Flat Base" bullets, not as accurate shooting "Boat Tail"" bullets

Not sure where got this info from but every boat tailed match bullet I ever shot in factory Enfields was very accurate right out to 900 yards .
Cat

[shooter12]

I used a lot of Sieera's 174 gr MK and 180 gr Pro Hunters .311 in Mosin Nagant rifle at around 2650 f.s which is probably couple hundred feet faster then in Enfeeld.
Both very accurate ,can get around 1-1/14 with open sight at 100 yds .
I killed only 2 deers with 180 gr and liked the performance.
Not sure about 174 gr though for hunting .Sierra does not recommend them for big game, so I never tried .
S12

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Not sure where got this info from but every boat tailed match bullet I ever shot in factory Enfields was very accurate right out to 900 yards .
Cat

If the boat tails are so bad why do the Matchking 174’s, keep selling like hot cakes?

Where this mis quoted theory comes from is the flat base bullets will obtrute far better in over dimension bores, thus seeming to improve accuracy.

If you haven’t got an over dimension bore, which there are plenty of out there, the boat tails shoot just fine. My 1943 Savage manufacture #4 Mk1* shoots the Matchking 174’s outstandingly.

[Savage Bacon]

I haven't looked online yet but I will tonight. While shopping today I saw Sierra 150 grain and I believe 174 grain bullets and that was it for correct diameter. I did see 303 British ammunition in 150, 170 I believe and 180 grain. Winchester 180 being the cheapest by about $8 A box. I didn't buy any as I wasn't sure about firing something that big for the first time shooting this rifle. Plus I bought a new scope today and I'm already worried about the boss finding the receipt lol.

The rifling looks pretty crisp in the whole length of the barrel and the crown doesn't show any visible wear. I'll see if my friend can check my head space for me.

I may buy the Sierra 150 gr bullets to start with for my loads. Then after finding my most accurate load, switch to 180-200 gr for my heavier option. Next time I'm in town I might but a box of 150 gr and 170 gr ammunition to try out while waiting for my dies.

[260 Rem]

It is my understanding that any difference in the accuracy of BT vs FB bullets is likely related to the fact that FB bullet jackets can be more precisely formed. The result is that FB bullets are capable of better accuracy at (short) ranges, until such a point that the better BC of the BT design turns the advantage in their favor. Perhaps this explains why most top flight short range BR competitors use FB bullets whereas the long range crowd uses BT designs. All that being said, most shooters do not shoot well enough see advantages/disadvantages at short range. Well, that’s the theory....

[aardvaark]

If you're interested, I've got somewhere around 200 - 125 grain Spire Points for sale. $75 takes all. PM if interested.