Yote clarification for a new hunter?

[Scratch]

I've been lurking around a bit, and despite a few searches, not really found answers for a few things. If these have been covered, please flame me after pointing me in the right direction... :wink:

I've only been licenced for a few weeks but have accompanied friends on upland bird hunts for a few seasons. This year was my turn, and I've enjoyed 3 great days out since I got licensed and really enjoy the hunt. More-so a little Ruffie in a white wine reduction with carmelized onion and mushroom glazed in balsamic.

On a recent trip - I met a landowner who was gracious enough to invite us to hunt on his land for Deer and Yotes. He was most interested in us taking care of a few coyotes - and if we happened on a deer - well - that's great too.

Well - with a week left in the season, that's quite a learning curve for a new hunter. While we spotted a nice 4x4 whitetail buck today, I'm not prepared to make the kill just yet, but we are considering the opportunity to hunt a few coyotes on the property.

I believe I now have a handle on the regs for coyotes. As a resident with a licence granted access (rights of access) on private land, I understand we are legal to take them.

Questions:

1. Coyotes are listed under "Big Game" animals at SRD. [http://www.srd.alberta.ca/fishwildli...especies.aspx] Does this mean they fall under the .23 Calibre minimum? I've heard a number of folks saying that they use the .17 HMR or the .22-250, both of which would seem to be under the legal calibre based on that SRD classification.

2. For coyotes taken on private land (for predator control) does the hide need to be taken, or are we able to oblige if the landowner says 'toss em by the barn'?

3. User the srd regs, Residents can hunt coyote without a license on land for which they have the right of access. Does this include crown land and unrestricted natural areas? (Bearberry or Redwater for example?)

I realize these are fairly obvious questions, but as a new hunter, I would rather ask the experienced and take a few lumps than simply proceed and be ridiculed for ignorance. Right?

Thanks all - happy hunting!

[Battery]

im not to sure about the .23 caliber thing, as i havent had to deal with it i use a .270 so i havent really read up on it.
but Yes you are allowed to toss em' by the barn if the landowner says so and gives you permission to hunt on his/her land. and yes you can shoot them on crown land. Have fun

Battery

[sharp_85]

As far as I know coyotes don't fall under the calibre restriction for big game because they are considered pests. I use a .22-250 for them.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Scratch

I've been lurking around a bit, and despite a few searches, not really found answers for a few things. If these have been covered, please flame me after pointing me in the right direction... :wink:

I've only been licenced for a few weeks but have accompanied friends on upland bird hunts for a few seasons. This year was my turn, and I've enjoyed 3 great days out since I got licensed and really enjoy the hunt. More-so a little Ruffie in a white wine reduction with carmelized onion and mushroom glazed in balsamic.

On a recent trip - I met a landowner who was gracious enough to invite us to hunt on his land for Deer and Yotes. He was most interested in us taking care of a few coyotes - and if we happened on a deer - well - that's great too.

Well - with a week left in the season, that's quite a learning curve for a new hunter. While we spotted a nice 4x4 whitetail buck today, I'm not prepared to make the kill just yet, but we are considering the opportunity to hunt a few coyotes on the property.

I believe I now have a handle on the regs for coyotes. As a resident with a licence granted access (rights of access) on private land, I understand we are legal to take them.

Questions:

1. Coyotes are listed under "Big Game" animals at SRD. [http://www.srd.alberta.ca/fishwildli...especies.aspx] Does this mean they fall under the .23 Calibre minimum? I've heard a number of folks saying that they use the .17 HMR or the .22-250, both of which would seem to be under the legal calibre based on that SRD classification.

2. For coyotes taken on private land (for predator control) does the hide need to be taken, or are we able to oblige if the landowner says 'toss em by the barn'?

3. User the srd regs, Residents can hunt coyote without a license on land for which they have the right of access. Does this include crown land and unrestricted natural areas? (Bearberry or Redwater for example?)

I realize these are fairly obvious questions, but as a new hunter, I would rather ask the experienced and take a few lumps than simply proceed and be ridiculed for ignorance. Right?

Thanks all - happy hunting!

No caliber restrictions. No bag limit, no closed season on private property. Crown land does have a season.

You are not required to save the pelt.

[russ]

coyotes aren't considered big game.

[Scott N]

Coyotes are classified as "fur-bearing carnivores" in the Wildlife Act, not as big game, so like the others have pointed out, most laws that apply to big game don't apply to coyotes.

[Scratch]

Thanks for the feedback everyone - and if you haven't commented and have something to add - I'm sure I'm not the only new hunter with eyes on the coyotes. I was pretty sure that they weren't classed as 'big game' but were listed there by SRD as a convenience.

I'm glad you mentioned a 'season' on crown land referring to the O1 - F28 season for "Green Zone" which is something well worth noting.

Redfrog mentioned that the pelt need not be kept, but as there is a distinction between yotes taken on private land (Predator control) and public land (which must be considered 'game' as there is a season) does it not stand to reason that the hides must be collected from public land shot animals?

I realize I'm nitpicking a bit - as no farmer would complain about the dispatch and waste of a coyote within 50 miles of his land, but a warden might.

I'm not one who likes to quote reg's chapter and verse, but I do believe in understanding them fully. As many have said before, my rights as a hunter must be based on a foundation of upholding the regulations, even if I don't necessarily agree with every line.

Thanks to those who've weighed in so far!

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Scratch

as no farmer would complain about the dispatch and waste of a coyote within 50 miles of his land,

Actually a lot of farmers are starting to want the coyotes to stick around. They eat gophers and fawns and other crop eating critters that compete with cattle etc.. One farmer whose land I hunt on says he has "good coyotes" right now. If we shoot them it may allow "bad" ones to move in -- so coyotes are off limits until they start causing problems. Message is -- don't just assume the farmer want's you to kill yotes. Make sure you ask and have the question answered directly.

[Scratch]

Sjemac -

No question there. Of course - any hunting on private land must be accompanied by a conversation with the landowner and his wishes or limitations. That goes without saying. I know in the Redwater area, the farmers we've talked to (a few of them now) are all disappointed that we're hunting grouse, and not coyotes.

Your point is a good one though. Hunting permission should be accompanied by a good understanding of what the landowner is comfortable with you harvesting. They may have a hate on for Mules, but love Whitetails - never know. Best to have clarity from the get-go.

[tth_12032]

Don't want to preach here, just putting something forward to consider. Just because one animal is a game animal and the other is considered a pest doesn't make his life or death any less valuable. I know a lot of people like to kill coyotes and throw em in the bush or not even recover them to make sure they are dead. The only reason I am even bringing this up is because I think many people just follow the status quo without thinking about their actions. As long as you think through your decisions and are aware and comfortable of the results whatever you choose (within legal restrictions) is fine by me.

If you decide that you want to see the animals you kill go to better use than fertilizer, put a post on the trapping discussion saying you have coyotes for anyone who wants em. I guarantee if you try you'll find someone who will take the pelts off you hand and may even reward you for em. Make sure the coyotes are frozen right away and its best to hang them by their hind feet.

[russ]

Originally Posted by tth_12032

just putting something forward to consider. Just because one animal is a game animal and the other is considered a pest doesn't make his life or death any less valuable.

Did you know that's a line of thinking that's pretty much straight out of the PETA play book.

"A rat is a boy, and a boy is a rat" or something along those lines. It's a statement that's been attributed to Ingrid Newkirk for years.

And yes I believe we do need to place a hierarchal value on wildlife otherwise everything get's out of whack.

[Appletree]

I'll back tth_12032 up here; it especially behooves a new hunter to consider carefully what they're comfortable with in terms of their own personal hunting ethics. It's certainly something I think about a lot. Myself, I've thought carefully about it, and decided I'd rather not hunt coyotes; I have no problem with anyone else hunting coyotes (or ground squirrels, or crows, etc.), as long as it's something they've given some thought to. Whether or not you make use of what you kill is up to you personally (keeping within the regulations, of course), but I think we owe it to anything we consider shooting to come to a careful decision about what shooting it would mean to us. I think hunters can agree that killing animals isn't (or shouldn't be) a trivial business.

As for the suggestion that there might be some folks who'd welcome coyote hides, I think it's a helpful point. Being rewarded for it might get into a bit of a gray area, but that's matter I don't know the regs on.

[Scratch]

I appreciate that there are those who share both sides of the argument on this forum - and are willing to share without it getting to a ****ing match. I recently posted a few articles on my blog - and got into similar debates. (Please take a read if you are interested. I'll put links below my post...)

I'm personally not opposed to skinning the coyote and keeping the hide. It's a bit of work - but all things considered - only a few minutes as part of the hunting ritual. That said - any sign of mange or insect infestation limits the hide value off the top.

I'll certainly attempt to make a few connections here. If I have no interest in keeping hides, I'll try to find a home for them before venturing out. I too don't believe in wasting the animal - even if for pest control. That said - if the pelts are poor and the farmer would rather the carcasses stay to keep other yotes from harassing his cattle... well who knows. I have and will continue to let my conscience be my guide on that one.

As I posted on my blog:

"We as ethical hunters do not take the life of an animal merely as a trophy. A kill is a killing... ...Predation is predation and it goes up and down the food chain. Hunters are willing to take ownership of that relationship. We not only recognize that an animal has been killed to satisfy our need to hunt (from wherever it stems) but ensure that the animal is used fully, that the resource is effectively managed, and that the population does not suffer as a result of our actions. Wild animals are not a renewable resource. They are a finite resource, and the population surpluses are made available to legal hunters."

That is something I believe in and will foster in my actions.

Something tells me though - the hide of the first coyote I take will likely come home with me...


If anyone is interested - this is something I wrote about on my blog when friends and family challenged me about my desire to hunt.

My first post: http://www.scratchley.org/2008/11/11...check-my-neck/

My followup: http://www.scratchley.org/2008/11/13...r-not-to-hunt/

[Vindalbakken]

OK, I read that blog post. You are a welcome addition to the hunting fraternity.

[tth_12032]

Just discovered some vital information!! If you are hunting coyotes on CROWN LAND you CANNOT allow the pelt to go to waste. Unfortunately, if you are hunting with authority of a landowner to control coyotes for them the law does not require this of you. But if you take one on public land you better make sure that his pelt is used so either skin him out and process him yourself or make $15-25/yote selling him unprocessed (but immediately frozen) to a trapper.

Got this information directly from Fish & Wildlife.

[Devlin]

Originally Posted by tth_12032

Don't want to preach here, just putting something forward to consider. Just because one animal is a game animal and the other is considered a pest doesn't make his life or death any less valuable. I know a lot of people like to kill coyotes and throw em in the bush or not even recover them to make sure they are dead. The only reason I am even bringing this up is because I think many people just follow the status quo without thinking about their actions. As long as you think through your decisions and are aware and comfortable of the results whatever you choose (within legal restrictions) is fine by me.

If you decide that you want to see the animals you kill go to better use than fertilizer, put a post on the trapping discussion saying you have coyotes for anyone who wants em. I guarantee if you try you'll find someone who will take the pelts off you hand and may even reward you for em. Make sure the coyotes are frozen right away and its best to hang them by their hind feet.

+1

I'll shoot coyotes but I'll take their pelt. Mind you I'll also shoot a gopher and there's nothing there to take! Even so it seems pointless to me to kill things for no reason. At least pelt it.

[Devlin]

Originally Posted by russ

Did you know that's a line of thinking that's pretty much straight out of the PETA play book.

"A rat is a boy, and a boy is a rat" or something along those lines. It's a statement that's been attributed to Ingrid Newkirk for years.

And yes I believe we do need to place a hierarchal value on wildlife otherwise everything get's out of whack.

There's a difference between what was said and equating a boy to a rat. There's also likely little sympathy for PETA on this forum so don't try to misconstrue other people's ethical guidelines just because you don't agree.

[catnthehat]

I hunted on a market garden at one time using my flatbow because of all the housing around - we were asked not to use rifles.
The farmers pleaded with us to get all the archers we new and shoot the deer because of the crop damage .
The coyotes however, were ABSOLUTELY OFF LIMITS to us !!
The reason was that they ate the mice and rabbits that decimated the vegetables and fruit.

Down south however, where I hunt coyotes and geese, one farmer says NO WAY to the deer, as he and his wife like them.
the coyotes and geese can be shot at will however!

So, it all depends on the particular farmer and what he/she is growing or what animal they like.

Ask a sheep farmer if you can shoot coyotes on his land and he will likely show you wher the best spots to set up are.

One farmer regularly puts dead cattle out for us to use as bait.
Cat

[russ]

Originally Posted by Devlin

There's a difference between what was said and equating a boy to a rat. There's also likely little sympathy for PETA on this forum so don't try to misconstrue other people's ethical guidelines just because you don't agree.

Not really, but this is the rubber band ethics club website so have it at 'er.

[Scratch]

Ok - so after gleaning the regs yet again... to try to find clarity for resident hunters:

Coyote
A Resident may, without a licence and on land to which he or she has the right of access, hunt (but not trap) coyote at all times of the year throughout the province, except as follows:
1) on public lands in the Green Area, only from October 1, 2008 to February 28, 2009, and
2) in Camp Wainwright (WMUs 728 and 730), only from January 5, 2009 to February 28, 2008.
Click here for information on coyote hunting for control of livestock predation.

This specifically says that the season is for the 'green area' which is defined as:

Green Area - forest lands not available for agricultural development other than grazing. In general, the Green Area is public land outside the parkland and prairie regions, or roughly in the northern half of the province and within a strip running along the Rocky Mountains and foothills (click here to order your copy of the 2008 Alberta Guide to Hunting Regulations which contains the WMU map).

So - for most of parkland area - that says NO CLOSED SEASON.

And for the pelts from the General "Big Game" regs:

NOTE: It is unlawful, with the following exceptions, to allow the pelt of any furbearing animal to be wasted:
It is not legally necessary to salvage pelts of 1) furbearing animals taken in accordance with regulations authorizing control of problem wildlife, or 2) coyotes harvested, by residents, outside of public lands in the Green Area.

Therefore (Ethics aside...) the regs state that ouside the green area retaining the pelt of a Coyote IS NOT REQUIRED.

Anyone have a different interpretation? I'm going to ring AHEIA tomorrow to see if anyone there can clarify interpretation for me.

[Tredeb]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Ok - so after gleaning the regs yet again... to try to find clarity for resident hunters:



This specifically says that the season is for the 'green area' which is defined as:



So - for most of parkland area - that says NO CLOSED SEASON.

And for the pelts from the General "Big Game" regs:



Therefore (Ethics aside...) the regs state that ouside the green area retaining the pelt of a Coyote IS NOT REQUIRED.

Anyone have a different interpretation? I'm going to ring AHEIA tomorrow to see if anyone there can clarify interpretation for me.

Pretty straightforward to me.

If you shoot a coyote in the green area, it must be in season and salvaged.

If you shoot a coyote on private land you don't have a season or have to salvage the pelt.

The difference, in my mind, is that coyotes in private land are viewed as pests and they are trying to promote population control. All you really need is permission for the land you are on.

However, in the green area, you are in the bush. There is no reason that the coyote would be considered a pest so you have a season and need to keep the pelt.

As mentioned, if there is a problem with the pelt, it is not worth much so I doubt you would be in trouble for wasting it. If it is in good shape, someone will take it off your hands in the trapping forum.

[Scratch]

As I said all along - ethics aside - as were talking interpretation of the regs here - does anyone actually know what the "Green Area" is?

The regs state:

Green Area - forest lands not available for agricultural development other than grazing. In general, the Green Area is public land outside the parkland and prairie regions, or roughly in the northern half of the province and within a strip running along the Rocky Mountains and foothills (click here to order your copy of the 2008 Alberta Guide to Hunting Regulations which contains the WMU map).

So - for Natural Areas (for example) which are provincial / crown land that are outside the Parkland and Prairie regions - and many are central / south and not along the mountains / foothills - what's the scoop? Or is 'Green Area' any and all crown land regardless of where it lies - and not just in the 'general' areas indicated?

[Findal]

Hard to find, but here is the Green area map:
http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/lands/forms...egionsmap.aspx

[Scratch]

NICE! That's what I was hunting (no pun intended) for!

[cooper]

Originally Posted by Devlin

There's a difference between what was said and equating a boy to a rat. There's also likely little sympathy for PETA on this forum so don't try to misconstrue other people's ethical guidelines just because you don't agree.

Hay whats wrong with peta / Im proud to be a member of people eating tasty animals.

[Scratch]

I'm sure there are a few Meatatarians here.

I think this weekend we'll be heading out and calling a few coyotes. Gotta start somewhere - and with no tag and a day left in the season, I'll let that 8 point WT go for this year...

[Whiskey Wish]

"Coyote is a survivor,
reckon he's got to be,
Lives in the snow at 40 below,
or at Malibu by the sea.
I'm just an old cowpuncher,
love to listen to his tunes.
I get high on a bottle of rye,
coyote gets drunk on the moon."
Ian Tyson

I like coyotes. I like to see them and I like to hear them. As a landowner they serve some use to us by cleaning up dead animals and helping to keep other animals population under control. They are part of the BIG PLAN and deserve a place on earth.
HOWEVER, I have learned the hard way over the years that we must keep pressure on them or they quickly become problem critters. Left unchecked they will invade the yard and take livestock, pets and threaten people as well. I have first hand knowledge of them attacking my yellow lab in broad daylight when she was doing nothing other than trotting along with my tractor. I have helped my neighbour bury his dog after helping him search for it after the coyotes grabbed him in the middle of the day in front of him and his children. I have shot 3 coyotes off a retired friends front step after she called me in tears because they stood on the step and growled at her when she went out to feed her cats.
The trick is to apply pressure without wiping them out, although in the case of the coyote I'm not sure that is possible.
Now to your question. You have wandered into a legal grey area and even if you had a F & W officer and and Agriculture rep in the same room you will get conflicting answers. I know because I have sat in a meeting with 40 other farmers and listened while they disagreed with each other. Under the Wildlife act they are fur bearing animals and are to be treated accordingly. Under the Agriculture Act they are pests and are to be disposed of any way you see fit. At the meeting I attended the two officials even got into it over the legality of jacklighting coyotes. My only advice to you is if you are on private land with permission, do as you see fit. If you are on crown land follow the Wildlife Act.
The rule we have around our spread is if you see a coyote and he runs, good enough. If you see him and he stands and watches, he catches a bullet. When we give access to hunters they are told the same.
As far as the ethics of shooting something you don't plan to eat, that is a personal choice you will have to work out for yourself. The way I see it is population control. It's not pretty but it has to be done and a bullet is a lot quicker than Mother Nature's methods. The mange, exposure and starvation are a slow death.
Just my 18 peso's worth.

[dj240]

Where I usually hunt the local Hutterite colony is usually happy to take the cyotes off my hands, And somtimes you cand get hands on there very powerful wine in return.