Interesting take on medical marijuana in the USA and gun ownership

[HighlandHeart]

It is off to a good start because once they were caught it was recalled. Most illegal growers in Canada are using whatever chemicals with no oversight and you never see any stories about the H.A.'s recalling weed out of concern for customer safety.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I've been looking both at doing this myself and trying to decide what some of my holdings are going to do so I've got some thoughts on the subject. Your analysis is flawed.

You can grow cannabis by putting a pot in the corner with a CFL over it, but you are not going to get 5oz of decent product off it. A setup that produces like that is going to need a tent with 2 lighting systems and climate control, hydro pots, a selection of nutrients, an RO system and ph testing gear. You're looking at a $1500 startup cost. Ongoing expenses of a hundred a month and more than a little time invested. In comparison you can go to an LP today and choose between a dozen different strains, dried and ready to consume shipped to your doorstep tomorrow for $250 - $350 an ounce.

Look at it this way; How many people do you know that make their own beer? Of those how many are any good at it? Do you think they keep executives from Molson up at night?

I still want to try it just for the sake of an interesting hobby really but I can't justify it based on the expense alone, I don't quite go through an 1/2 oz a month. Even if I go in with a couple friends and split it one really good harvest would keep us for half a year.

I'm not sure your numbers are any good either.

Ballast - $200
MH bulb- $80
4 - 3gallon pots- Free
Potting soil $60
Mylar $40
Consumables $100
Electricity $1.25/day

4 plants this way can yield 4 OZ every 8 weeks.

Thousands make their own beer, many are very good at it.

Does it keep Molson Execs up at night, bet it does. You can Google information on the monster brewers in the states attempting to buy up all the hops in the NW to keep them out of the hands of craft brewers. Loosing too much market share.


Looper

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Looper

I'm not sure your numbers are any good either.

Ballast - $200
MH bulb- $80
4 - 3gallon pots- Free
Potting soil $60
Mylar $40
Consumables $100
Electricity $1.25/day

Sure if you want to diy a tent and don't have any filtration for the smell. I also have very hard water so if I don't use RO I'm going to have a nightmare with trying to lower the pH of my nutrient solution. You can do it cheaper than the setup I described sure but getting product roughly equivalent to an LP is not going to be cheap.

Originally Posted by Looper

Does it keep Molson Execs up at night, bet it does. You can Google information on the monster brewers in the states attempting to buy up all the hops in the NW to keep them out of the hands of craft brewers. Loosing too much market share.

I think that's more about trying to strangle the next Goose Island than it is Joe in his basement.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Myclobutanil is a banned pesticide - why are growers in Canada using it?

That's misleading, it's banned for use on cannabis for good reason but it's used in food production. I suspect this will be revealed as inappropriate use of an all in one product of some kind.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

That's misleading, it's banned for use on cannabis for good reason but it's used in food production. I suspect this will be revealed as inappropriate use of an all in one product of some kind.

Do you smoke your food Midget? Myclobutanil when burned creates hydrogen cyanide - there's good reason it's been banned from cannabis production. And it's not the only banned chemical found. People are getting sick from medical weed but it's supposed to be a safe supply.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Do you smoke your food Midget? Myclobutanil when burned creates hydrogen cyanide - there's good reason it's been banned from cannabis production. And it's not the only banned chemical found. People are getting sick from medical weed but it's supposed to be a safe supply.

How is this different than what I said? Are you forging some sort new argument by agreement paradigm?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

How is this different than what I said? Are you forging some sort new argument by agreement paradigm?

Not trying to create some new argument - that was posted for the crowd. But a banned substance that is known to create hydrogen cyanide when burned - and then comparing that to our food supply? There are at least 3 growers that are affected - how did they NOT know what they were using? Couldn't read a label?

The supply is supposed to be clean, safe, medical grade - trust is already down. Now the gov't has to step in, create more rules. I can this whole thing going sideways and costing more than it's worth just because government is involved and it's solely about revenue.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I've been looking both at doing this myself and trying to decide what some of my holdings are going to do so I've got some thoughts on the subject. Your analysis is flawed.

You can grow cannabis by putting a pot in the corner with a CFL over it, but you are not going to get 5oz of decent product off it. A setup that produces like that is going to need a tent with 2 lighting systems and climate control, hydro pots, a selection of nutrients, an RO system and ph testing gear. You're looking at a $1500 startup cost. Ongoing expenses of a hundred a month and more than a little time invested. In comparison you can go to an LP today and choose between a dozen different strains, dried and ready to consume shipped to your doorstep tomorrow for $250 - $350 an ounce.

Look at it this way; How many people do you know that make their own beer? Of those how many are any good at it? Do you think they keep executives from Molson up at night?

I still want to try it just for the sake of an interesting hobby really but I can't justify it based on the expense alone, I don't quite go through an 1/2 oz a month. Even if I go in with a couple friends and split it one really good harvest would keep us for half a year.

So your saying my argument is flawed because of a $1500 investment is needed?? Cheaper than a good gun and scope set up. And because people don't make their own beer. HMMMM!????

I would say your wishful thinking based on the investment you have ALREADY made and that your argument is flawed. So the following is my counter.


$1500 investment that can produce $10,000 to $20,000 per year if black marketed. Hmmmm????
$1500 investment that can save a daily consumption person $500-600/mth or $6-7000 per year, (.32grams per average joint, 6 joints a day is 2 oz per month....and I know a few guys who consume even more than this). Daily users currently account for 80% of the pot consumption in Canada. Weekly users account for the next 15% of all consumption. So I would agree there may not be any incentive for the weekly or less user, but the daily user has a huge financial incentive to grow for himself and others.....WHICH was greatly restricted by the legal impact of spending years in jail. But no more....soon. AND they are the bulk of the recreational market.

Comparison to beer: beer is not that expensive, but if it started costing you $20/bottle and/or $600 per month, the incentive would create a lot more home brewing. Also this is not a very good comparison as the cost of supplies for each batch of beer can be almost as much buying the finished product. Mostly its about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost plus the effort and the failed batches.

Growing quality pot......I am sure there is a learning curve, but once that's complete, its off to the races with not too many failures. The same can not be said of beer. Plus there is SOO many different flavours and styles of beer, all requiring new equipment and a whole new learning curve. But if you look at the explosion of craft beers and brew pubs, they are taking a big chunk out of the Molson's type of companies.

I am sure the casual user will buy from the govt regulated store.......until he has a friend that just gives him some from his harvest.

I have heard the arguments you have posted....they seem to be the main ones positive for the new industry......but I want to hear ones that cant be refuted so easily.

[TylerThomson]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

So your saying my argument is flawed because of a $1500 investment is needed?? Cheaper than a good gun and scope set up. And because people don't make their own beer. HMMMM!????

I would say your wishful thinking based on the investment you have ALREADY made and that your argument is flawed. So the following is my counter.


$1500 investment that can produce $10,000 to $20,000 per year if black marketed. Hmmmm????
$1500 investment that can save a daily consumption person $500-600/mth or $6-7000 per year, (.32grams per average joint, 6 joints a day is 2 oz per month....and I know a few guys who consume even more than this). Daily users currently account for 80% of the pot consumption in Canada. Weekly users account for the next 15% of all consumption. So I would agree there may not be any incentive for the weekly or less user, but the daily user has a huge financial incentive to grow for himself and others.....WHICH was greatly restricted by the legal impact of spending years in jail. But no more....soon. AND they are the bulk of the recreational market.

Comparison to beer: beer is not that expensive, but if it started costing you $20/bottle and/or $600 per month, the incentive would create a lot more home brewing. Also this is not a very good comparison as the cost of supplies for each batch of beer can be almost as much buying the finished product. Mostly its about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost plus the effort and the failed batches.

Growing quality pot......I am sure there is a learning curve, but once that's complete, its off to the races with not too many failures. The same can not be said of beer. Plus there is SOO many different flavours and styles of beer, all requiring new equipment and a whole new learning curve. But if you look at the explosion of craft beers and brew pubs, they are taking a big chunk out of the Molson's type of companies.

I am sure the casual user will buy from the govt regulated store.......until he has a friend that just gives him some from his harvest.

I have heard the arguments you have posted....they seem to be the main ones positive for the new industry......but I want to hear ones that cant be refuted so easily.

Nothings stopping anyone from growing their own right now other than the law. People are lazy and convenience sells.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by TylerThomson

Nothings stopping anyone from growing their own right now other than the law. People are lazy and convenience sells.

Nothing is stopping me from robbing a bank....BUT THE LAW......and ending up rotting in jail. Nothing to do with lazy either.

The law and the consequences of breaking them are a very big hurdle/barrier for most right now. But that evaporates once it becomes legal to grow your own.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

So your saying my argument is flawed because of a $1500 investment is needed?? Cheaper than a good gun and scope set up. And because people don't make their own beer. HMMMM!????

No I'm saying that the proportion of drinkers who make their own beer doesn't have a significant impact on the bottom line of major liquor companies. Craft breweries don't factor into this, do you actually know anyone that sells beer they made at home?

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

I would say your wishful thinking based on the investment you have ALREADY made and that your argument is flawed. So the following is my counter.

My investment in this sector is not significant really, I don't have the stomach for volitale equities.

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

$1500 investment that can save a daily consumption person $500-600/mth or $6-7000 per year, (.32grams per average joint, 6 joints a day is 2 oz per month....and I know a few guys who consume even more than this). Daily users currently account for 80% of the pot consumption in Canada. Weekly users account for the next 15% of all consumption. So I would agree there may not be any incentive for the weekly or less user, but the daily user has a huge financial incentive to grow for himself and others.....WHICH was greatly restricted by the legal impact of spending years in jail. But no more....soon. AND they are the bulk of the recreational market.

It's not hard to get to get an ACMPR now or to delegate someone to grow on your behalf. That financial incentive is already there for someone who is consuming two oz a month so why aren't they doing it already? With no legal risk at all. You need to cite a source for those numbers.

Oh and tell your friend with the 6 joints a day to get a vaporizer, it will pay for itself in a week at that rate.

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

I have heard the arguments you have posted....they seem to be the main ones positive for the new industry......but I want to hear ones that cant be refuted so easily.

You haven't refuted them, you tap danced around them. Just playing along though, what happens to black market prices when every second garage has a grow tent in it? If you're right about this explosive black market then why hasn't causing the rumination of the cannabis industry in other jurisdictions? Colorado allows 6 plants per adult but it remains a multi billion dollar industry in a state with a population of 5.5 million. Denver is not awash in $50/oz weed.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Not trying to create some new argument - that was posted for the crowd. But a banned substance that is known to create hydrogen cyanide when burned - and then comparing that to our food supply? There are at least 3 growers that are affected - how did they NOT know what they were using? Couldn't read a label?

How do we get listeria tainted lunch meat, birth control pills that don't work and air bags that kill people? Mistakes happen with basically any manufactured or processed goods, did you really think cannabis would be different?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

How do we get listeria tainted lunch meat, birth control pills that don't work and air bags that kill people? Mistakes happen with basically any manufactured or processed goods, did you really think cannabis would be different?

You keep bringing up food? There are many things we can eat that won't affect us - healthy gut is everything. This weed is supposed to be clean.

Mistakes? I've been smoking for 30 years, not something to be proud of - but I've never gotten sick from a cigarette. People are getting sick from weed that is supposed to be clean, grown for medicinal purposes. Mistakes aren't supposed to be happening Midget.

Have you ever gotten sick from black market weed? Not me, and I know of nobody.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Mistakes aren't supposed to be happening Midget.

Right..... so this kind of thing is understandable:

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall...65306a-eng.php

But contaminated Cannabis crossed some sort of line you can't abide? Your outrage is kind of myopic no?

Those LPs need to be held accountable and a process put in place to catch this in the future. That's happening. If you think that this particular industry is going to avoid any kind of problem that happen in just about any other one then you're delusional.

[Red Bullets]

Boy this thread got off on a tangent. I originally posted about gun confiscation from medical marijuana users in Hawaii. Anyways, carry on.

And to the growers cost debate..... Over the past 40 years I have seen a few plants that people grew outdoors in Alberta. Those plants produced 2 ounce buds that were solid and a plant would yield probably 3/4 lb each. Didn't cost the people that grew it anything but a few seeds in the dirt. No watering or fertilizers. No contaminants. Just the good old sun, rain and mother earth.

And to those that will say it wouldn't be as good as indoor grown marihoochie.... I've been told the CBD and THC levels are specific to the strain grown whether it is indoor or outdoor grown.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

You keep bringing up food? There are many things we can eat that won't affect us - healthy gut is everything. This weed is supposed to be clean.

Mistakes? I've been smoking for 30 years, not something to be proud of - but I've never gotten sick from a cigarette. People are getting sick from weed that is supposed to be clean, grown for medicinal purposes. Mistakes aren't supposed to be happening Midget.

Have you ever gotten sick from black market weed? Not me, and I know of nobody.

I remember in the late 70's when the marihoochie that was coming up from Mexico had been sprayed with paraquat. Some black market cartel was bringing it to Canada even though it was tainted. The TV news even warned the hippies of the day about the bad pot and not to smoke it.

[Reeves1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alyx4QeRRdg

[MrDave]

I'm licensed for 2 ounces a month. The new legal dealers sell only by 10 gram packages. At $10 per gram that's $600 a month for 2 ounces. I buy 4 ounces of pot off the criminal dealers for that. Guess who I'm giving the money to? Guess who has the better weed? Me... Guess who has the faster delivery?
Really had to laugh at the thought that the feds set the market price.
I too worry about the future confiscation of firearms, because eventually they are going to try to fulfill papa Trudeau's plan to take away the right to own guns. This can easily happen here.