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Old 02-01-2015, 01:57 PM
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Default Ron Smith gain twist barrels

I'm having him put together my first semi custom build and would like some feed back on his barrels. I've heard there is pretty good possibilitie that the gain twist can increase velocity?
He's building me a 35 whelen barrel. My hope is that I can get over 3000fps with a 180 gr bullets.
My old rifle would spit 200 gr superformace at 2920fps hoping I can achieve more.
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors View Post
I'm having him put together my first semi custom build and would like some feed back on his barrels. I've heard there is pretty good possibilitie that the gain twist can increase velocity?
He's building me a 35 whelen barrel. My hope is that I can get over 3000fps with a 180 gr bullets.
My old rifle would spit 200 gr superformace at 2920fps hoping I can achieve more.
Without knowing twist rate and barrel length an answer would be irrelevant. Go short to get large velocity increase. Going long with gain twist is a mistake.
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:13 PM
double gun double gun is online now
 
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His barrels are excellent - why not ask him how much velocity gain can be expected?
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:21 PM
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His barrels are excellent - why not ask him how much velocity gain can be expected?
I would but its Sunday, don't usually like bugging people on Sundays. Just was curious if anyone else had found this to be true.

I would like a 1-14 twist but Im not sure what it would start out at..maybe 1-18 or something
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:08 PM
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Just curious as to why such a light bullet in 35 cal?
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:14 PM
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Have a 7mm WSM with 21" barrel 16-8:1 inch twist that easily gets 3035 fps with 175 gr bullet. Its set up as a long range target rifle for 1000 yd benchrest. It has shot a few 4.4" groups at 1000. Its also made the trip to one mile where I got a fantastic group. I think they are worth doing. I have seen a couple extra long barrels with gain twist fail to develop reasonable velocity without excessive pressure.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:21 PM
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Apparently Ron Smith makes good barrels, my son is wanting to put one on his 35 whelen as we'll he wants to use 225 grain bullets he is thinking 1:14 as well.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:35 PM
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I have a 6.5 mm gain twist ready to pick up from Ron Smith. It's 1:14 to 1:8. I wasn't hoping for much velocity gain. Although it would be nice. I got the gain twist for lower initial pressure spike.
That being said I was always curious about gain twist spinning the bullet faster than the final twist ratio due to the 'gain' it's getting as it travels down the barrel.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmanbob View Post
Just curious as to why such a light bullet in 35 cal?
Mostly because barnes makes a ttsx in 180gr... my current hunting load is a 225 accubond
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleJ View Post
Have a 7mm WSM with 21" barrel 16-8:1 inch twist that easily gets 3035 fps with 175 gr bullet. Its set up as a long range target rifle for 1000 yd benchrest. It has shot a few 4.4" groups at 1000. Its also made the trip to one mile where I got a fantastic group. I think they are worth doing. I have seen a couple extra long barrels with gain twist fail to develop reasonable velocity without excessive pressure.

Thanks that's very interesting.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:43 PM
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How much does one of his barrels cost?
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:47 PM
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Not sure never asked. If I was to guess around 600-700 for chambering and instalation
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:21 PM
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I paid $425 for my 6.5mm gain twist. Just the barrel.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateo View Post
I have a 6.5 mm gain twist ready to pick up from Ron Smith. It's 1:14 to 1:8. I wasn't hoping for much velocity gain. Although it would be nice. I got the gain twist for lower initial pressure spike.
That being said I was always curious about gain twist spinning the bullet faster than the final twist ratio due to the 'gain' it's getting as it travels down the barrel.
The rpm gain will stop the instant the bullet exits the bore,
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:33 PM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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The rpm gain will stop the instant the bullet exits the bore,
So is the gain twist stabilizing the projectile?
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:08 AM
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So is the gain twist stabilizing the projectile?
The bullet does not stabilize because of the gain ,The twist rate at the muzzle will determine stability , we don't usually use barrels with a big gain such as RS , in our discipline we rely on the small gain mostly to ensure the bullet twist is neutral or speeding up slightly as the bullet leaves the muzzle.
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:38 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Default Gain twist

I have had a Ron Smith 26 in.18-9 gain twist on my 7STW for several years now (about 8, I think). It has been exceptionally accurate and handles bullets ranging from 140 TTSX to 180 VLD's with absolutely no pressure issues with any max + loads I have used in that barrel. It has had a few hundred rounds thru it and still shoots sub MOA with 180 gr VLD bullets at an MV of
3060. That may be due to the gain twist ..not sure, but I'm inclined to think so. One thing I do know is that there is not a down-side to using a gain twist in barrels of that length.
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:49 AM
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I've heard great things about the quality Ron Smith puts out. I visited his shop and talked to him for a bit about his gain twist and why he uses to much gain. His response was "decades of experience." Then he went on to say that the gain twist isn't magical it just helps a little bit. And any well made barrel is a well made barrel and will shoot. Be it gain twist or standard. If you haven't heard about his "rebar barrel" I would suggest everyone google it. It's an absolutely brilliant story and the comments left by other shooters are quite entertaining to say the least. I will admit that the "rebar" story was a huge factor into choosing an RKS barrel. I was gonna get a Bartlein but once i found out what Ron could do with "junk steel" I knew he was a master at his trade. Not to mention supporting local and getting to see the shop where my barrel would be made! Cant wait to shoot it.
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Old 02-02-2015, 12:41 PM
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Default All fantastic

Between my Dad and myself we currently have 4 RKS barrels.
30-06, 6.5-06, 280 Rem and a 6.5x57. Currently also getting him to make us another one. We just got the 6.5x57 back and havent shot it yet, but the other 3 all shoot amazing, and i dont know if he does something to limit recoil or what but the 280 used to be a 25-06 and would kick like a mule and now it has zero recoil and will currently group better then I can. The RKS 30-06 is also a nicer rifle to shoot compared to my older 110 Savage 3006.
Highly recommended!
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:14 PM
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I got a rks gt on my 257wby. Installed by him. Initial test loads clustered at an inch or so and 3700 fps. Adding grains I broke 3800-3900fps but we're getting pressures. The only group i shot was still under a inch.
The best load is 3725fps with 7828sCc.this is the first handcrafted bbl I've had so I don't know what other custom guys build but I would highly recommend his shop to build it for the 600$.
Keep it in alberta.
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateo View Post
I've heard great things about the quality Ron Smith puts out. I visited his shop and talked to him for a bit about his gain twist and why he uses to much gain. His response was "decades of experience." Then he went on to say that the gain twist isn't magical it just helps a little bit. And any well made barrel is a well made barrel and will shoot. Be it gain twist or standard. If you haven't heard about his "rebar barrel" I would suggest everyone google it. It's an absolutely brilliant story and the comments left by other shooters are quite entertaining to say the least. I will admit that the "rebar" story was a huge factor into choosing an RKS barrel. I was gonna get a Bartlein but once i found out what Ron could do with "junk steel" I knew he was a master at his trade. Not to mention supporting local and getting to see the shop where my barrel would be made! Cant wait to shoot it.
I presume ( and maybe wrongly so ) that Most of the posts on here are to do with hunting sporter type barrels in which case the rks should be more than fine and may serve you well , the fact that he is local and barrels are available Is even better. The rebar barrel story your talking about was done for competition with cast bullets ( where they do well) .in no way does that translate to disciplines with big pressure and jacketed bullets ,( where they are unheard of ) so that would be apples and oranges and not fair to either barrel maker to compare them .
I have had a bore scope in a few of the mentioned barrels and they looked ok except for the lack of lapping.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:35 PM
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I went with a 6.5-06 gain twist from him in a 26" , he tried to talk me into a 24" but I was set on a longer barrel for the little extra speed but I did not understand at the time about the gaintwist ,but he told me to try it and if I was not happy with it he would cut it down somemore for me.I am very happy with it so far,I am getting right around 2800 fps with 50 grs of VIHT N560 and140 gr VLD Targets and it is grouping under MOA out to 600yrds so far , I can still go up with a little more powder but its doing really good where its at,Hoping for somemore warm weather to get it out again.I stopped and chatted with him awhile back and had a good chat with him and watched him making a barrel,it is always interesting to go there and you learn a few things every time .I am trying to decide what to get next. He also bored a 308 model 88 Winchester out to 358 for me a couple years back , not sure if he gain twisted it,guess I'll have to ask him next time I am there,but it is a really good shooter to.
cheers
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:52 PM
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My first and only custom (so far ) has a 24" .264 gain twist to 8.5, not sure what he started with and forgot to ask - not worried as thats what he does. Don't know how it shoots yet as I just fired one to get a case to get my lands. The 'smith had some fun with it though.

Support them locals word is Smith, Jury and Gillard are as good or better than anyone, and with the dollar now there is no benefit to ordering south.

It sure looks damn good though!
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:41 PM
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Mine was is a slightly modified heavy varmint contour. So the presumption was indeed wrong. At least concerning my contour.
I did know that the rebar barrel was for cast bullets. It's all in the article that googling brings up. This is indeed comparing 'apples to oranges' like you put it. However, it still takes a finely made barrel to shoot cast bullets accurately. In fact, these competition shooters search high and wide for the best barrels. And RKS is one of the best kept secrets for these 'super barrels'
A well made barrel is a well made barrel. I did struggle with the fact that Ron doesn't lap his bores, he said it doesn't need it. I can't argue much with a guy who has made thousands of match grade barrels. We'll see how mine shoots this summer and I'll be sure to write about it.
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:45 PM
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Support them locals word is Smith, Jury and Gillard are as good or better than anyone, and with the dollar now there is no benefit to ordering south

Again , this all depends on what you are looking for, if your looking to compete at the top level , you dont see any of these on the equipment list
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HW223 View Post
Support them locals word is Smith, Jury and Gillard are as good or better than anyone, and with the dollar now there is no benefit to ordering south

Again , this all depends on what you are looking for, if your looking to compete at the top level , you dont see any of these on the equipment list
So you donít use gain twist barrels from Alberta in your discipline?
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HW223 View Post
Support them locals word is Smith, Jury and Gillard are as good or better than anyone, and with the dollar now there is no benefit to ordering south

Again , this all depends on what you are looking for, if your looking to compete at the top level , you dont see any of these on the equipment list
Equipment lists have a lot to do with 'The flavour of the week' kinda thing. Shooters buy what the winners shoot. And the winner buy whatever they are sponsored by or in most cases, whatever has the best marketing campaign at the moment. Almost all major barrel makers have some sort of 'world record' or another claim to fame. You could look at the button vs. cut rifling. There is no proof one is more accurate than the other when done right. It's whatever is most popular. Right now cut rifling is king. Choose your flavour and go with it.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:38 PM
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So you donít use gain twist barrels from Alberta in your discipline?
I shoot Bartlien gain twist(as far as I know they don't do extreme twist changes, they are more in the 14.5-13.75 range ) , straight twist bartliens , kriegers ,again in straight twist as Krieger does not make a gain and Mcclenans . If you look at sbr equipment lists from the NBRSA Nationals or any large shoot you will not find any gain twist barrels from Alberta.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:51 PM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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Originally Posted by HW223 View Post
Support them locals word is Smith, Jury and Gillard are as good or better than anyone, and with the dollar now there is no benefit to ordering south

Again , this all depends on what you are looking for, if your looking to compete at the top level , you dont see any of these on the equipment list
Is this because the Alberta makers will not or canít meet the requirements for your discipline?
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mateo View Post
Equipment lists have a lot to do with 'The flavour of the week' kinda thing. Shooters buy what the winners shoot. And the winner buy whatever they are sponsored by or in most cases, whatever has the best marketing campaign at the moment. Almost all major barrel makers have some sort of 'world record' or another claim to fame. You could look at the button vs. cut rifling. There is no proof one is more accurate than the other when done right. It's whatever is most popular. Right now cut rifling is king. Choose your flavour and go with it.
I would have to disagree with the "flavour of the week " cliche I can see where that would be an observers perspective , but in reality it is the barrel brand that wins that gets used by the top competitors . They will usually chamber barrels from most barrel makers during the off season and test ( that would be now ) the bulk of these shooters can sort a good barrel from practice barrel from a non competitive barrel in about 50-100 rounds . They will usually rank them as follows . Awesome( hummer ,save for nationals ) a really good barrel , used for some practice and big shoots , a good barrel , used for practice and club shoots , everything below good gets parked or sold , it's rare to get a hummer so you take the best you have to the Nationals .
Brand doesn't matter as a good barrel is a good barrel . Makers are always working on making a better product so it moves around from year to year , a big problem in the last few years has been steel quality since crucible went down its hard to get the consistent quality of the steel makers were used to , so this has also added to the problems ,
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