Coalspur Lakes -Silkstone/Lovett/Pits 24, 35 or 45?

[brown trout]

Just wondering if anyone has ever been to these lakes (Lovett, Silkstone, Pits 24, 35 or 455) by Coalspur. Trying to find some generic info on things like lake size, how far is "a short walk?," etc. I'm thinking up to a couple kms, but you know how guessing is.

Anyone have any pics of just the lakes? I'm not looking for a total how to... just curious during the middle of winter.

Help would be great. PM if you like.

Cheers,

Nick

[Speckle55]

Nick just google then satilite pic and look .. they are right by road but the pull off is where you park .. 7.9 Rainbow was the record last year for my club(www.Hintonfishandgame.ca) .remember there is Selenium in soil /mine tailings

the anglers are fishing they have size restriction's

hope this helps

David

http://www.maplandia.com/canada/albe...no-14/mercoal/

[brown trout]

Thanks for the help. Didn't even think of checking a sat image. No worries about keeping fish --I don't really like eating trout, and don't keep any from places like that (if I do keep one or two, it's from a generic F&G meat-hole). I'm just a fly fisherman from Edmonton who wants some wilder fishing, and to try some new water.

Thanks again.

[Speckle55]

Nick if you look at map they are below the foothills on the map of the mine and have signs on hy-40 south you can see some of the 2 berms piles from 40

map is below my name on first post

David

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Nick just google then satilite pic and look .. they are right by road but the pull off is where you park .. 7.9 Rainbow was the record last year for my club(www.Hintonfishandgame.ca) .remember there is Selenium in soil /mine tailings

the anglers are fishing they have size restriction's

hope this helps

David

http://www.maplandia.com/canada/albe...no-14/mercoal/

No selenium issues in the Coal Valley lake's David, that factor is primarily a concern in a couple older pits in the Gregg River/Cardinal River Mine area. Only small amounts of selenium have been found in any of the Coal Valley pit lakes, not enough to worry about consumption wise. I'm not endorsing keeping the fish if guys want to practice catch and release but i think it's also good to clarify what water quality tests have actually demonstrated in the area. Basically, water quality in the pit lakes is very similar to what occurs in Fairfax Lake. Good information otherwise.

Oh, and remember your bear spray in the area, grizzlies love the reclaimed landscape.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by jrs

No selenium issues in the Coal Valley lake's David, that factor is primarily a concern in a couple older pits in the Gregg River/Cardinal River Mine area. Only small amounts of selenium have been found in any of the Coal Valley pit lakes, not enough to worry about consumption wise. I'm not endorsing keeping the fish if guys want to practice catch and release but i think it's also good to clarify what water quality tests have actually demonstrated in the area. Basically, water quality in the pit lakes is very similar to what occurs in Fairfax Lake. Good information otherwise.

Oh, and remember your bear spray in the area, grizzlies love the reclaimed landscape.

I go on what i get for info from the retired Fish Bio's in the area and i sat on the Selenium meetings at Teck Coal .. thanks for your bias opinion though

those numbers are in 2000's talk to me in 30 years as to whats safe


where are my Athabasca Rainbows in the Mcleod River (threatened in Alberta Closed to Fishing Rainbows and keeping) .. 30 years ago i got lots and kept them to eat

just saying.. not against Mining

ps we don't have a Coalspur Lake yet


David

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I go on what i get for info from the retired Fish Bio's in the area and i sat on the Selenium meetings at Teck Coal .. thanks for your bias opinion though

those numbers are in 2000's talk to me in 30 years as to whats safe


where are my Athabasca Rainbows in the Mcleod River (threatened in Alberta Closed to Fishing Rainbows and keeping) .. 30 years ago i got lots and kept them to eat

just saying.. not against Mining

ps we don't have a Coalspur Lake yet


David

Yes, but Teck does not operate the Coal Valley Mine. I'm not trying to sound rude as i do really appreciate all the information you contribute to this board, but im trying to keep some of the myths in the region from getting more ingrained. Here's some more recent work if you want to review the numbers. I may have a slight bias in the area as i enjoy these lakes, i assure you i had nothing to do with this report/ data set. Im no more biased than any past area manager, i do read every tid-bit of data published in the region.

http://www.sherritt.com/getattachmen...it-Lake-Report

To put an exceedance in perspective, they are looking for 1 part per billion. Any selenium detected in the Coal Valley lake's is still at concentrations way below what naturally occurs in other area streams.

I don't want to get into a debate on the other mine, it definitely generates selenium but i feel habitat issues are way more important that the selenium in area, lots of research Ive based that opinion on.

When i saw Coalspur in the title i thought the same thing, that's a little different proportion of lake. If anyone wants to see what i mean google the reclamation plan.

[Speckle55]

Hey Jrs .. talk to Carl Hunt .. he is a Mentor of mine and a retired Bio also David Schiender..David Donald..

also i worked in the mill with Clairifiers for 18 years and one was the Fresh Water(Water Treatment was the job) to the town/mill in Hinton.. also i was involved with the Northern River Basin Study and ask the Fed's some question's..
so while you have your opinions you were paid to do studys by the mines

What does the science say about Selenium because it killed 160 sheep in 6hrs in/off a phospherous mine in the states and affects all if it pools up

David

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Hey Jrs .. talk to Carl Hunt .. he is a Mentor of mine and a retired Bio also David Schiender..David Donald..

also i worked in the mill with Clairifiers for 18 years and one was the Fresh Water(Water Treatment was the job) to the town/mill in Hinton.. also i was involved with the Northern River Basin Study and ask the Fed's some question's..
so while you have your opinions you were paid to do studys by the mines

What does the science say about Selenium because it killed 160 sheep in 6hrs in/off a phospherous mine in the states and affects all if it pools up

David

All i'm trying to say is the selenium issue is at the other mine (Teck, not CVM), not trying to say its not real or never going to pose an issue in the region. I was not paid/involved in any way for the work i posted there, its simply a publicly available paper with good data. I have discussed my experience in the area with you before, and acknowledge a level of bias but i still value our fish/wildlife above a paycheck anyday. I haven't read as much about the sheep selenium stuff as i'm more interested in fish (unless I'm sheep hunting of course). I know of all the people you mentioned, and don't mean to disrespect anyone in anyway. Differing opinions is how we come to best manage the resource in the area, as long as opinions are based on the best information possible. If the fish aren't edible due to metals it would be published in the regs, no need for people to be scared. We're on the same page in wanting to see healthy fish/wildlife populations.

Sorry about the hijack brown trout, if its any condolence the report i posted there has some really good maps/air photo's which Ive referred to while fishing the area myself. Feel free to pm me about the lakes if you get confused, i often visit them/ other area lakes and they are indeed worth exploring. I will never give exact spots but don't mind tips especially when i hijacked your thread. Not kidding when i say remember bear spray though..

[brown trout]

Thanks both of you for the help and insights!

Nick

[McLeod]

I wouldn't bother with these lakes. Not when there are nice trout lakes in the mountains where you can see into the water and places where if you do want to eat a fish you can catch one not worry about toxins.

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by McLeod

I wouldn't bother with these lakes. Not when there are nice trout lakes in the mountains where you can see into the water and places where if you do want to eat a fish you can catch one not worry about toxins.

x2

[Speckle55]

jrs

ooppps Schindler in other post sorry David
oh and here is a post about 95 Sheep dying too i hadn.t seen

In China 3 people died because they ate their corn they grew in the tailing of a mine which was later found high in Selenium

I am informed and provide

Food for Thought

David

http://www.localnews8.com/news/95-sh...p/-/index.html

http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0472.htm

Originally Posted by jrs

All i'm trying to say is the selenium issue is at the other mine (Teck, not CVM), not trying to say its not real or never going to pose an issue in the region. I was not paid/involved in any way for the work i posted there, its simply a publicly available paper with good data. I have discussed my experience in the area with you before, and acknowledge a level of bias but i still value our fish/wildlife above a paycheck anyday. I haven't read as much about the sheep selenium stuff as i'm more interested in fish (unless I'm sheep hunting of course). I know of all the people you mentioned, and don't mean to disrespect anyone in anyway. Differing opinions is how we come to best manage the resource in the area, as long as opinions are based on the best information possible. If the fish aren't edible due to metals it would be published in the regs, no need for people to be scared. We're on the same page in wanting to see healthy fish/wildlife populations.
Sorry about the hijack brown trout, if its any condolence the report i posted there has some really good maps/air photo's which Ive referred to while fishing the area myself. Feel free to pm me about the lakes if you get confused, i often visit them/ other area lakes and they are indeed worth exploring. I will never give exact spots but don't mind tips especially when i hijacked your thread. Not kidding when i say remember bear spray though..

[huntin'fool]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I am informed and provide

Food for Thought

David

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by huntin'fool

roflmao

i'm hungry but i gave all my food away.. OMG

David

Originally Posted by Speckle55

jrs

ooppps Schindler in other post sorry David
oh and here is a post about 95 Sheep dying too i hadn.t seen

In China 3 people died because they ate their corn they grew in the tailing of a mine which was later found high in Selenium

I am informed and provide

Food for Thought

David

http://www.localnews8.com/news/95-sh...p/-/index.html

http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0472.htm

Yes, because phosphorus mining and toxicity in China is the same thing (the concentrations being compared are laughable). I'm not going to argue this any further with you, people can research this on their own and make their own judgements.

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

where are my Athabasca Rainbows in the Mcleod River (threatened in Alberta Closed to Fishing Rainbows and keeping) .. 30 years ago i got lots and kept them to eat

Is this a rhetorical question?

The area in question has been slammed by this kind of mentality. Those rivers were (and still are) harvested and poached beyond sustainability. The increased Selenium levels limit spawning success (rivers) so we may never see the numbers of AthaB Rainbows we once did.

[1/2 oz Bucktail]

Is there any published data regarding tissue or egg samples that show elevated levels of selenium concentrations? Is there documentation that would support the idea that relative spawning success has been impacted by water concentrations? Possibly the better question would be, is there any historical baseline data to compare to? There may be far more issues than selenium that are affecting fish populations such as increased water temperature, degraded habitat quality, decreased D.O.

Also I would assume that since the area in question may have some water quality issues -selenium concentration in particular- , the background samples (upstream of mines or rock dumps) may potentially show selenium concentrations that are approaching CCME guidelines. This leads me to ask the question: are selenium concentrations considered elevated compared to pristine waters in areas where the crustal abundance of selenium is low, or are these concentrations elevated when compared to samples within the same watershed upstream of any disturbances?

The issue with looking at element concentrations in water is that they are often compared to very broad level guidelines. These guidelines often do not take into account local geology and crustal abundancies of the elements in question.

Just a few thoughts.

[DuckBrat]

Also have to consider the habitat alteration that has forever changed places like the Mcleod and Gregg rivers. Sedimentation and pollution from Rampant ATV use, utility corridors, culverts, and Forestry/mining/oil-gas have added to the issues. Cumulative impacts taking their toll.

[1/2 oz Bucktail]

Duck Brat, exactly!! Cumulative impacts must be investigated. The question is, do we have enough baseline data on some watersheds to ensure that a cumulative impacts study can provide meaningfull data.

I know that damn near each and every one of us has anecdotal information regarding the potential cumulative effects upon some of our favourite waterbodies, the issue is that policies do not get changed based on anecdotal information. Solid science can help (not always, but sometimes), but if we do not have the ever important baseline data, we cannot really stand behind data obtained withn a cumulative effects study.

[McLeod]

JRS and David..Thanks for the debate and points made. Agree to disagree ..
I appreciate your contributions..Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But please continue your contributions on thse subjects.



As for Athabasca Rainbows...
Fishing is better for them now than it was in 80's ...

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by 1/2 oz Bucktail

Is there any published data regarding tissue or egg samples that show elevated levels of selenium concentrations? Is there documentation that would support the idea that relative spawning success has been impacted by water concentrations? Possibly the better question would be, is there any historical baseline data to compare to? There may be far more issues than selenium that are affecting fish populations such as increased water temperature, degraded habitat quality, decreased D.O.

Also I would assume that since the area in question may have some water quality issues -selenium concentration in particular- , the background samples (upstream of mines or rock dumps) may potentially show selenium concentrations that are approaching CCME guidelines. This leads me to ask the question: are selenium concentrations considered elevated compared to pristine waters in areas where the crustal abundance of selenium is low, or are these concentrations elevated when compared to samples within the same watershed upstream of any disturbances?

The issue with looking at element concentrations in water is that they are often compared to very broad level guidelines. These guidelines often do not take into account local geology and crustal abundancies of the elements in question.

Just a few thoughts.

George Sterling 310-0000 area Fish Bio Athabasca Rainbow recovery panel member(has data from area streams years ago when we had hair lmao)

whats acceptable now will not be 30 years from now .. 15 years ago i never even heard of Selenium and now they are talking about Phosphorus from the blasting(Fertilizer and diesel fuel) and other issues

ps i worked at CRC in the 70's and am not against mining

even the Pulp Mill(worked there 21 years) changed their process to elemiate Dioxin and Furans which i was told about 8 years before the Alberta standards on how much fish you can eat were listed in regs(i was eating so someone warned me in a whisper.. i would not eat those fish)

my orginal post was there is Selenium in the soil /mine tailings

is anyone saying that there isn't



Food for Thought

David

[fishman]

dont you need a certain amount of selinum in your diet especially if you are a smoker..........somebody told me that quite a few years ago and i think it was a doctor.

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by fishman

dont you need a certain amount of selinum in your diet.

Yes this is correct. You also need some lead in your diet as well which you get naturally from celery. Selenium helps healthy hair and nail growth. However when we talk about these elements in your body they are only needed in trace (minute) amounts. Anything above these low levels is hazardous and that is where the issue lies. Selenium and lead are showing up in the oddest places and in alarming concentrations.

Lead pollutants are increasing everywhere in the arctic even showing up in the fats of caribou herds and the human inhabitants. Selenium is on the rise anywhere rock is exposed and it's surface area increased from blasting or excavation (like in mining).