Any pilots here?

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

MASSIVE thanks to everyone for the PM's and the replies. Especially to Corey who has been instrumental in helping me, going so far as to contact the seller and ask questions I would not have thought of.

I made it as far as the warmup area yesterday, and some bugs appeared.
-The radio would not receive.
-The left mag went down on check.
-The front tire was split. (I found that)
-the engine is seeping in 2 places (I found that)
-one spark plug cap was badly corroded (I found that)
-the prop has a big rock ding, which he said he will file off
-The rubber seal under the wing was dried up and breaking. (I found that)
-It had been sitting for close to 2 years without running, and unfortunately he started it up before I got there, I would have told him not to without inspecting at the very least the pushrods and scoping the valves for corrosion. Now at least IF he takes it for it's annual MAYBE they will be able to find contamination in the oil.
-The battery is fuxored. He boosted it with his pickup before I got there. He boosted it overnight.
This man is broke, and trying to get out most of what he put in, but the $23,000 he put in the engine is really negated because he did not zero time the engine. Now I value the plane at $38,000 - $5000 for annual and repairs listed above - $30,000 for a new engine.
Plus, I did not fit in the damn thing. He had to move his left seat ahead, my left shoulder was behind his right. He put in 6' of high density foam to lift up above the dash, which made it nearly impossible for me to sit in it.
Good deal gone bad, I sure feel for him.

Good Grief was that ever interesting Ken !!
I could read pages & pages of your day yesterday!

[1899b]

Curious how many 2 or 4 seater planes you have been in Ken? I didn't think you would fit in a PA28 140 myself as Dad had two growing up and I have seen pics of your frame (holding a coho I believe). You might need a 185!!

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Curious how many 2 or 4 seater planes you have been in Ken? I didn't think you would fit in a PA28 140 myself as Dad had two growing up and I have seen pics of your frame (holding a coho I believe). You might need a 185!!

It's tight! Uncomfortably tight, the owner says he added a bunch of foam that would have to be taken out of the seat to accommodate me. The last one I was in was a 172, not a lot of of room there either.

[Ken07AOVette]

I need to sit in one that has not had HDF added to the seats. I am hoping to find one soon.
I am dealing on a 140 now, found a great deal just waiting on documentation. If I do get this, is there anyone on the forum looking for hours that would fly it back for me?
More to come.

Also- my last reply (which I asked to be deleted) was very wrong. I took it the wrong way, and would like to apologize. I hope there are no hard feelings, I read it sideways.
I am sorry.

[coreya3212]

You should easily be able to find a few Cherokees to sit in. As I said before , in 1973 they stretched the fuse lage about 6 inches so any pre 73 should be the same, and the stretch was behind the front seats so I don't "think" it would matter but to be safe....
If you find yourself south of red deer for any reason, I can seat you in a couple also.

Good luck

[qwert]

Re: post # 60, IMHO, the real question should be,

Why were you leaving the ramp in an aircraft that is so obviously, and KNOWINGLY not airworthy?

“-The front tire was split. (I found that)
-one spark plug cap was badly corroded (I found that)
-the prop has a big rock ding, which he said he will file off
-It had been sitting for close to 2 years without running,”

If the aircraft does not have a required current annual inspection, what about the pilot’s required current medical?

I suspect that your judgement was impaired by typical human factors of excitement and desire,
but also clearly indicates your lack of training and knowledge of the required standards of airworthiness.
With VERY few exceptions, there is no such thing as an ‘emergency takeoff’.

When an owner tells you that they “will file off a prop defect”, RUN AWAY QUICKLY,
then ask yourself what other AME only actions they may have performed.

‘Always ask yourself, how your actions will appear in the accident report’.

I suspect that with your experience, you would never knowingly operate a motor vehicle without liability insurance,
yet that is exactly what you are doing by operating an aircraft lacking ALL required paperwork.
(The first thing an insurance investigation will examine is the paperwork; ANY deficiency will be grounds to deny a claim for coverage.)

I strongly suggest you have a serious discussion (with a knowledgeable person such as an aviation attorney) about aircraft insurance and pilot liability, with particular attention to ‘SUBROGATION of liability’.
Aircraft insurance has much in common with marine insurance and many significant differences from typical auto.

I respectfully advise that you currently lack the training, experience and knowledge required to select, own or legally operate an aircraft.
You seem like an otherwise intelligent and purposeful man, and
I suspect your deficiencies of experience and knowledge can be easily (and enjoyably) remedied with proper training.

There are MANY very good reasons for a student to only fly school owned aircraft and under direct guidance and supervision.
When the student owns the aircraft, legal responsibilities (and liabilities) become MUCH more problematic.

I respectfully suggest that this is a situation where,
‘you don’t know (or understand the importance), of what you don’t know.

I suggest you re-read my post # 27.
Discovery flights are a very good and inexpensive way to experience and test your fit in several different aircraft and schools.
Just doing the ‘weight and balance’ calculations for several different aircraft will give you a lot of information regarding effective loads and range,
(both of which will be reduced for flying in summer mountain terrain).

When planning the purchase of any aircraft always remember and consider that,
‘The initial price of any aircraft is just a down payment on the continuing cost of maintenance.’

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea,
it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by qwert

Re: post # 60, IMHO, the real question should be,

Why were you leaving the ramp in an aircraft that is so obviously, and KNOWINGLY not airworthy?

“-The front tire was split. (I found that)
-one spark plug cap was badly corroded (I found that)
-the prop has a big rock ding, which he said he will file off
-It had been sitting for close to 2 years without running,”

If the aircraft does not have a required current annual inspection, what about the pilot’s required current medical?

I suspect that your judgement was impaired by typical human factors of excitement and desire,
but also clearly indicates your lack of training and knowledge of the required standards of airworthiness.
With VERY few exceptions, there is no such thing as an ‘emergency takeoff’.

When an owner tells you that they “will file off a prop defect”, RUN AWAY QUICKLY,
then ask yourself what other AME only actions they may have performed.

‘Always ask yourself, how your actions will appear in the accident report’.

I suspect that with your experience, you would never knowingly operate a motor vehicle without liability insurance,
yet that is exactly what you are doing by operating an aircraft lacking ALL required paperwork.
(The first thing an insurance investigation will examine is the paperwork; ANY deficiency will be grounds to deny a claim for coverage.)

I strongly suggest you have a serious discussion (with a knowledgeable person such as an aviation attorney) about aircraft insurance and pilot liability, with particular attention to ‘SUBROGATION of liability’.
Aircraft insurance has much in common with marine insurance and many significant differences from typical auto.

I respectfully advise that you currently lack the training, experience and knowledge required to select, own or legally operate an aircraft.
You seem like an otherwise intelligent and purposeful man, and
I suspect your deficiencies of experience and knowledge can be easily (and enjoyably) remedied with proper training.

There are MANY very good reasons for a student to only fly school owned aircraft and under direct guidance and supervision.
When the student owns the aircraft, legal responsibilities (and liabilities) become MUCH more problematic.

I respectfully suggest that this is a situation where,
‘you don’t know (or understand the importance), of what you don’t know.

I suggest you re-read my post # 27.
Discovery flights are a very good and inexpensive way to experience and test your fit in several different aircraft and schools.
Just doing the ‘weight and balance’ calculations for several different aircraft will give you a lot of information regarding effective loads and range,
(both of which will be reduced for flying in summer mountain terrain).

When planning the purchase of any aircraft always remember and consider that,
‘The initial price of any aircraft is just a down payment on the continuing cost of maintenance.’

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea,
it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

Good Luck, YMMV.

Great reply, I will answer in order.

We went to the warmup area. Lloydminster taxiways are rough, the only safe place to do a run up is there. There was absolutely no intention of leaving the ground.

There was no judgement impairment, again we went to rev the engine not spin a circuit. I don't get all wound up and goofy about these things, I am not 19.

The Owner has openly admitted he is not mechanically inclined when it comes to planes, the AME handles everything. He does not file the prop.

The answer for the rest is yes, I am lacking knowledge. No I am not going to do anything until after I have had everything checked out by someone far more in the know than me, which I freely willingly and openly admit.
I am going to do discovery flights. No I would never fly in any craft that is not fully insured and certified airworthy with a competent current pilot.

You are right, I am not stupid by any means, and I am learning more every day.

Please keep it coming.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

snip

You are right, I am not stupid by any means, and I am learning more every day.

Please keep it coming.

Flight training can be one of the most personally satisfying experiences you will ever have,
but there are serious risks and hazards involved with aircraft ownership.

I recommend that you do a lot of piloting in different aircraft before you even consider purchase.

You also need to give careful consideration to the actual utility of any aircraft,
many long time users say, "time to spare go by air'.
Those with 'getthereitis' too often get to their destination before scheduled.

"A fool and his money are soon flying more aircraft than they can properly handle."

A very good source of knowledge and needed research for any aircraft you plan to fly or buy is the NTSB accident database.
It is searchable by aircraft type, and much more.
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx
You will be amazed at the multitude of possible pilot error.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[tractor1971]

Even though I agree with the advise given, there many ways to achieve the "right" thing. Finding a good PA28/140 is also one way to it, as I did it. It is a very good trainer, as is a cessna 172. I am 6ft 1' weighing 230 lbs. I fit just fine, though snug. I do not fit in a cessna 150. Do not expect trucklike room in any trainer. Once you start flying, you forget about sitting tight.

[mcreg]

I have been flying for over 40 years and have been fortunate enough to fly many single engine aircraft, and have even owned a few! Every aircraft is obviously different and has varying purpose. In my experience, buy an aircraft that fits your needs of today, because tomorrow both your needs and skills will change. In my case, I started my PPL and about 20 hrs into it decided to buy a 172. That lasted for 2 years and approx 250 flying hours - too slow & really only a 2 person aircraft. Since then I progressed into high performance singles / turbo prop singles / twin engine aircraft and currently a turbo helicopter (R-66) and considering either a Pilatus PC- 12 or Cessna Mustang-Citation. I say all this only to make the point there is no 1 aircraft that meets every need, so just worry about today tomorrow is tomorrow!
Good luck, you have been given some excellent advise.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by mcreg

I have been flying for over 40 years and have been fortunate enough to fly many single engine aircraft, and have even owned a few! Every aircraft is obviously different and has varying purpose. In my experience, buy an aircraft that fits your needs of today, because tomorrow both your needs and skills will change. In my case, I started my PPL and about 20 hrs into it decided to buy a 172. That lasted for 2 years and approx 250 flying hours - too slow & really only a 2 person aircraft. Since then I progressed into high performance singles / turbo prop singles / twin engine aircraft and currently a turbo helicopter (R-66) and considering either a Pilatus PC- 12 or Cessna Mustang-Citation. I say all this only to make the point there is no 1 aircraft that meets every need, so just worry about today tomorrow is tomorrow!
Good luck, you have been given some excellent advise.

[sinawalli]

My brother and I were pilots when we were younger. Dad used to cut wood and we'd pile it.....

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sinawalli

My brother and I were pilots when we were younger. Dad used to cut wood and we'd pile it.....

Hahaha !!!

Had to read it twice lol!