Had a talk with F and W officer

[Dadirk]

So was talking to a friend within Fand W and got right into a good discussion regarding how many people get caught and reported to Report a Poacher and the number that go to court on charges and I was rather shocked that around 10 % wind up in court and the biggest issue is with witnesses, He said 90% of witnesses refuse to show in court so in a huge percent of the cases they get tossed before they even make it to court. SO my question is. If you saw a wildlife infraction that you thought was reportable would you show up in court and give testimony?

[Dacotensis]

Good Post.
years ago I/we came across 2 guys who shot a mdd a few days before the opener.
Seems they had wandered into a zone that opened up later than another zone further north.
There were several other vehicles checking these two out.
One guy went to retrieve the deer while the other perused the regulations.
I took a picture of the truck plate and had conversations with several other guys who thought these 2 twits should go down for this.
I admit, I did nothing. It was a long ways from civilization and there were more deer than farmers wanted.
Could be that I hoped the other witnesses would do something.
Sorry

[artie]

I think that it depends on the situation. I am not an officer so I can use my own common sense. If it was a fellow who continually broke the law then I would testify. If I saw a rancher put down or have a buddy put down a troublesome grizzly I would see nothing.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by artie

If I saw a rancher put down or have a buddy put down a troublesome grizzly I would see nothing.

Then you wouldn't have phoned RAP, would you? I THINK the OP is talking about people who phone, but then don't give names or show, hence the "no witnesses".

I think I'd show and testify, unless:

1) The trial was at a really inconvenient time or location and the charge was minor, or

2) The poacher was wearing a "Hell's Angels" vest.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Then you wouldn't have phoned RAP, would you? I THINK the OP is talking about people who phone, but then don't give names or show, hence the "no witnesses".

I think I'd show and testify, unless:

1) The trial was at a really inconvenient time or location and the charge was minor, or

2) The poacher was wearing a "Hell's Angels" vest.

How many "hell's angels" have you seen out fishing or hunting?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

How many "hell's angels" have you seen out fishing or hunting?

Hey, it could happen... LOL

and it was a joke.... relax mom

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by Dadirk

So was talking to a friend within Fand W and got right into a good discussion regarding how many people get caught and reported to Report a Poacher and the number that go to court on charges and I was rather shocked that around 10 % wind up in court and the biggest issue is with witnesses, He said 90% of witnesses refuse to show in court so in a huge percent of the cases they get tossed before they even make it to court. SO my question is. If you saw a wildlife infraction that you thought was reportable would you show up in court and give testimony?

thought the purpose of RAP was to allow people to report infractons without the worry of being identifed and having to show up in court. there is a very valid reason why you do not want a suspected poacher knowing you called RAP. retaliation by the suspect is a very definite possibility,even if all you did was call F&W. i would suspect that most cases that do go to court do not rely on a witness to make a conviction.

answer to the question,yes.

As bad as this sounds, it would all depend on the officer assigned to the case. My last two attempts to report poaching have not been pleasant experiences and left me vowing never to report anything again.

[huntinstuff]

Its typical behavior

People instantly get riled up, willing to do anything at the time, then......

Time passes. That poached grouse doesnt seem so important now, with everything else that life has handed you in the past months. Add to that the day you already spent in court, only to be told that the case has been adjourned to another time and date.


In hindsight, if you want "justice", probably the only way to get it is to club the guy like a baby seal at the scene. Then again, maybe not.

[icefisher11]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

How many "hell's angels" have you seen out fishing or hunting?

Obviously More then you would think...
You and probably lots of people would be surprised...

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

In hindsight, if you want "justice", probably the only way to get it is to club the guy like a baby seal at the scene.

See folks.. it's always better to follow the advice of an expert in law enforcement. LOL

Thanks 'Stuff! That from your "I wish I wasn't a policeman and no one else was around" fantasy file? LOL

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

See folks.. it's always better to follow the advice of an expert in law enforcement. LOL

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

see addition LOL

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Thanks 'Stuff! That from your "I wish I wasn't a policeman and no one else was around" fantasy file? LOL

9 months until I get paroled....... My hair is getting longer and my Streetglide is getting a custom paint job.

Now I have to decide:
1. Do I eat tons of crap and gain so much weight that my azz hangs over the seat on both sides, or

2. Do I hit the gym for a 9 month stint of HGH, Winstrol V, and protein shakes......

Hmmmm. Decisions decisions.......

[rugatika]

I can see the lack of conviction (get it) to go testify. I was called to testify against some guy that had stolen the plates off my car once. The guy was a 45 year old life long felon with a rap sheet that looked like a copy of War and Peace. Cops caught him with a trunk full of stolen stuff and break in tools etc etc, they told me if I came and testified this guy was going away for a good stretch.

I took the day off work, sat in court all day and when it came to this guy he barely sat down and the judge told him he was a bad boy and then announced time served. Lost a day of wages to see this guy hit the streets (plus half a day going down to the station to make a statement). What's the point? Until the justice system starts treating criminals like criminals, I can totally understand some peoples lack of desire to "waste" a day.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I can see the lack of conviction (get it) to go testify. I was called to testify against some guy that had stolen the plates off my car once. The guy was a 45 year old life long felon with a rap sheet that looked like a copy of War and Peace. Cops caught him with a trunk full of stolen stuff and break in tools etc etc, they told me if I came and testified this guy was going away for a good stretch.

I took the day off work, sat in court all day and when it came to this guy he barely sat down and the judge told him he was a bad boy and then announced time served. Lost a day of wages to see this guy hit the streets (plus half a day going down to the station to make a statement). What's the point? Until the justice system starts treating criminals like criminals, I can totally understand some peoples lack of desire to "waste" a day.

Yup. Thats an every day occurrence and it is pathetic.

[pikergolf]

Wonder if this is why the dept gets cut, not enough convictions. The RAP program is a bit misleading in that a lot of the cases you cannot remain anonymous and still get a conviction. For things to change, we as sportsman need a change of mindset and see them for the criminals they are. Culture change takes time, and the good old boy's poaching a few will take a little longer I suspect. Would you turn in an immigrant before a white good old boy for the same crime, I suspect most would. I think if you phone you should be willing to testify as well, with the cuts it gets pretty hard for them to catch someone red handed anymore.

[Lefty-Canuck]

.

Lc

[rugatika]

I don't care about the anonymity part. I just want to see guilty people getting some punishment that fits the crime. If asked I'd go testify again, but it is pretty disheartening when you spend a day in court and basically watch the judge turn all these guys out on the street with little more than a stern talking to...(and in some cases a sympathetic word). Everyone should have to spend a day sitting in court and actually see how "justice" is handled in this country if you ask me. (and I know you were going to...)

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Hey, it could happen... LOL

and it was a joke.... relax mom

I asked cause when I lived in Onterrible I fished all over the south parts and NOT once did I see them out fishing. Even on East side which was close to their clubhouse. They pretty much ignored those out fishing.

Come to think of it, I see more patched guys in Safeway in calgary than I ever did in Onterrible.

[JohninAB]

If I call it in I will see it thru to the end.

Worrying about retaliation over doing the right thing is wrong on so many fronts. All I can say is grow a set and man up!

So frustrating, people see stuff, call it in, people respond then the complainant decides to be a no show.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I called the Police on a kid who was doing about 130km/hr in a residential zone outside of my Son's dayhome.....went to Court ready to testify and the punk never showed up.....but he was convicted in his absence for stunting and running a stop sign. I was prepared to see it through though.

LC

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

I asked cause when I lived in Onterrible I fished all over the south parts and NOT once did I see them out fishing. Even on East side which was close to their clubhouse. They pretty much ignored those out fishing.

Come to think of it, I see more patched guys in Safeway in calgary than I ever did in Onterrible.

They only stock the lakes and streams

[nekred]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Its typical behavior

People instantly get riled up, willing to do anything at the time, then......

Time passes. That poached grouse doesnt seem so important now, with everything else that life has handed you in the past months. Add to that the day you already spent in court, only to be told that the case has been adjourned to another time and date.


In hindsight, if you want "justice", probably the only way to get it is to club the guy like a baby seal at the scene. Then again, maybe not.

Funny how many law enforcement types respond like this.... mostly I guess in response to the revolving door of the LEGAL system....

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Hey, it could happen... LOL

and it was a joke.... relax mom

I think there could be a market for "Harley Davidson Camo". Actualy come to think of it thats a pretty good idea. That way middleaged oilworkers everywhere could add it to their collection of tee shirts, coffee mugs, and other random junk that they use to distract themselves from the fact that they dont own a motorcycle.

[albertabighorn]

A large % are also bull**** claims with no proof and when officers go to court they have nothing to bring to court. They should only charge people that they have proof that something wrong has occured, less money wasted and those that should be convicted are because they are not wasting time on bs cases. I dont know why they are taught to charge all under any claim,its a joke.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I can see the lack of conviction (get it) to go testify. I was called to testify against some guy that had stolen the plates off my car once. The guy was a 45 year old life long felon with a rap sheet that looked like a copy of War and Peace. Cops caught him with a trunk full of stolen stuff and break in tools etc etc, they told me if I came and testified this guy was going away for a good stretch.

I took the day off work, sat in court all day and when it came to this guy he barely sat down and the judge told him he was a bad boy and then announced time served. Lost a day of wages to see this guy hit the streets (plus half a day going down to the station to make a statement). What's the point? Until the justice system starts treating criminals like criminals, I can totally understand some peoples lack of desire to "waste" a day.

Pretty much sums up my experiences with the criminal "justice" (not) system. In the last year I have been out around $1800 in wages so a criminally bad driver could get a $100 fine and 6 months to pay it. In the other case a drunk driver plead out 5 minutes before the trial, so I was out another days work.

On the other hand, had to take legal action against a jerk who owed me some cash. Went through, mediation, pre-trial, and a trial. Douche doesn't even show up for the trial, lol, judge was not impressed at all. Tacked on about a 45% douche bag surcharge.

[Mutter87]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

How many "hell's angels" have you seen out fishing or hunting?

A lot of Angels and their supporters are avid outdoorsmen, they just don't wear the colours while enjoying the outdoors.

[KegRiver]

If I said I would testify, then I'd be prepared to do just that.
And I have.

If I weren't prepared to testify I would make that clear for the outset.
And I have also done that.

Some battles are worth fighting, others aren't.

Drunk drivers get no quarter from me. None whatsoever.

A kid poaching a squirrel can expect a stern lecture and an offer to show them the way to hunt, legally. And I've done that also.

[eagle99]

One of my newphews son's got a fine for squirel hunting
He was 8 years old at the time
Comming home from Spirit River from High Prairie,
Went throught checkstop at Donnely ,was told he could
not bring to show mom
Was shot on grampa farm in grain bins
About four year ago