What is happening in Europe? Civil unrest the norm?

[propliner]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Insightful?

I used to read the same stuff when Ronald Reagan was working to bring down the iron curtain.

Blinders on, full speed ahead.

Gipper had it out for the commies because they threatened the freedom of the free world. Now, they're starting to look like a bastion for it. The free world ain't so free anymore. Our spy agencies make the former KGB look like Paul Revere.

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by twofifty

grouse_hunter thanks for the situation report.

If Ukraine goes its own way, will Russia's Navy lose direct access to the Black Sea/Mediterranean? I understand restoring & maintaining access to the Med has long been a strategic goal of theirs.

Well, they've been "renting" Sevastopol port for a while. However, since the Crimean Tatars (Central Asians) moved back to the peninsula (they were moved back to central Asia overnight by Stalins order, he liked to sort things. As in Asians belong in Asia, so get on the train...) the political situation has become quite tense. Crimea is an Autonomic Republic, meaning that they have their own government, but Ukraines government has some authority over them. The Tatars have built "port-a-poty" style shacks as "land claims" with a density of one shack per acre and thus claimed most of the land as their private land. Bizarre, I know.
So basically, Crimea is an unstable zone inside another unstable zone. The climate there is warmer than Vancouver, palm trees and stuff. The Northernmost point of Byzantine Empire as well.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

Well, Ukrainian history is a story of struggle. The country roughly the size of Alberta has been invaded by everyone, from Mongolians to Germans, Russian, Vikings, Polish, Turks, etc. As a result of constant occupation the Ukrainian people have always hungered for freedom and independence. The modern "trident" symbol of Ukraine actually spells out Freedom.
Western Ukraine is notoriously anti-Russian. During WW2 there was a massive uprising in the west of Ukraine, led by Stepan Bendera; the activists aimed at establishing an independent state, free of Communist occupation. As some of you may know 10 million registered deaths were recorded during the Famines in the 1930s in Ukraine. Man made famines which were a direct result of the Russian Communist leaderships' plan to exterminate the wealthy peasant class in Ukraine.
That has naturally lead to deep rooted hatred in the hearts of Ukrainian patriots, most of whom live in the Western part of the country. Eastern Ukraine was largely colonized by Russians during the existence of the USSR and is largely pro-Russian in the political sense.
Ukraine is divided politically along the Dnipro river, most of the violence seen is coming from the central Ukrainian cities such as Kiev, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, etc.
In western Ukraine, the hand of the nationalist movement was swift and hard. Buildings burnt, barricades overturned, Russian sympathizers chased out of the area. Lviv is truly the bastion of the Ukrainian spirit and the heart of Ukraines' west.
I don't think that this can go on much longer. We are out of the age of the Iron Curtain and media silence. All that it takes is one person with one camera equipped cell phone, and suddenly the whole world is aware.
The overseas bank account of the Ukrainian "leadership" are being frozen, there are plenty of intelligent, modern leaders ready to step into the place of the antiquated "gangster" relic that Yanukovich is.
All I can do is hope that there wont be any more civilian casualties.

A very newsworthy post Mr. Grouse Hunter.

A very well educated view of what is really happening in Ukraine.

I hope members of the news media who monitor this site contact you privately.

Please do not worry about my diversions with a clown show.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by TBD

?

Look it up my brother.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

bahahahaha



What can I say, I'm a huge fan of celebrity members of government.

I mean, it's not even really a change of occupation, just their employer, and not the one you'd hope it would be.

Not even close to the train wreck the terminator turned out to be ....

TBD


PS ... wait a second I could see you getting behind the terminator B.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by ali#1

He showed those Lebanese when he pulled out of their country.

?

[TBD]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Look it up my brother.

?

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by greylynx

A very newsworthy post Mr. Grouse Hunter.

A very well educated view of what is really happening in Ukraine.

All I can say is that my peers are in the streets in Kiev. I'm the incredibly lucky one, planning out my hunting season for next year, training my fancy dogs, polishing my fancy gun. God bless Canada.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by greylynx

A very newsworthy post Mr. Grouse Hunter.

A very well educated view of what is really happening in Ukraine.

I hope members of the news media who monitor this site contact you privately.

Please do not worry about my diversions with a clown show.

what they lost under Yeltsin.

Putin started with the poisoning of Yushchenko (running for the presidential office of the Ukraine) - an assassination attempt in late 2004 during his election campaign, Yushchenko was confirmed to have ingested hazardous amounts of TCDD, the most potent dioxin and a contaminant in Agent Orange. He suffered disfigurement as a result of the poisoning, (messed the guy up) this was a direct KGB attack.

Yushchenko was pro western BIG time.


https://www.google.ca/search?q=Yushc...w=1403&bih=900


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/4288995.stm


Take a good look boys, this is how the current Russian regime deals with political dissent !

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by TBD

?

???

[Winch101]

Do you not think you will see the day ,the resource rich west in this
Country will be forced to throw off the yoke of the oppressive US backed
Federal Govt .....Their policies are already impossible to bear by a lot
Of western workers .....

[twofifty]

Winch101, what market do you think the Keystone pipeline leads to?
What's Alberta's economy tied to?

[Sloughsharkjigger]

This is about land.... period. Russia can not afford to lose total control of the Ukraine land base.

The Ukraine was once considered the " bread basket of the world". The Ukraine land base supports bumper crops.

Russia is the largest county in the world in terms of land base, although most is useless wasteland.

Simply put, Russia needs six hundred thousand square kilometers of fertile soil and they now realize this.

[jetta5678]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

All I can say is that my peers are in the streets in Kiev. I'm the incredibly lucky one, planning out my hunting season for next year, training my fancy dogs, polishing my fancy gun. God bless Canada.

We sometimes take this country for granted, let's hope this puppet of Putin gets ousted.
Just a note that Regina is flying the Ukrainian flag, but they had to take the gay pride flag down. Maybe Nenshi will follow suit.
http://news.ca.msn.com/local/saskatc...sk-legislature

[TBD]

Originally Posted by jetta5678

We sometimes take this country for granted, let's hope this puppet of Putin gets ousted.
Just a note that Regina is flying the Ukrainian flag, but they had to take the gay pride flag down. Maybe Nenshi will follow suit.
http://news.ca.msn.com/local/saskatc...sk-legislature

.... excellent observation !

[twofifty]

So true.
To outsiders or newcomers, our arguments must seem trivial.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by TBD

?

Double ?
Ronny kind of turned things around as far as I understand.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by jhutter

Please explain how this relates to the current situation in Ukraine.

I would be interested to hear that one too

[3blade]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

I would be interested to hear that one too

Ok, I'll bite. I interpreted the question in the op as more big picture than a Ukraine specific discussion.

Human populations use resources. As populations increase, they reach critical mass for their current territory so they expand outwards to acquire more resources. When one expanding group meets another, conflicts happen. These conflicts are fought under a variety of banners (social, political, religious, etc.). In previous times, populations were held in check by death due to small scale fighting, starvation, climate, and disease. Occasionally technological advances allow higher numbers of people to survive on less space or less ideal space. Metal, farming, industrialization, modern medicine, modern farming are examples that have increased population critical mass. Acceptable living conditions also vary by culture and climate. It appears that some places are approaching critical mass once again.

Last time this happened, it resulted in world wars. Hitlers word for it was lebensraum which translates to "living space". In certain parts of Africa, it is accepted that wars are necessary to reduce the population so the survivors will have a better quality of life. Ukraine is prime territory in europe. in the arab world its Lebanon and Syria. And in both these places different groups of people are fighting for control.

My whole point is that politics are superficial, these conflicts have been going on long before communism vs capitalism. I don't pretend to know the answer, if there is one.

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by propliner

This unrest is merely the beginning of such pain. The world is just now feeling the birth pangs of a New World Order.

There are several countries who are not aligned with the globalist plans for this new global order. Two of the major ones are Russia and China. Russia has had a large influence on the Ukraine for centuries and sees her as its own.

There is a large portion of the Ukraine in the north and west who sympathize with, and would prefer to be aligned with the European Union, or simply put, the West. This portion of the country sees its future in alignment with a globally controlled yet bankrupted Western world and is willing to fight for their "freedom" from so-called communist control.

At the same time, the western-leaning global governments are striving to influence breakaway republics while encircling and isolating countries such as Russia. We see this happening in the Middle East as well. The options are to either join us or fall from within. There is plenty of western government controlled support to go around, including propaganda and weapons. The result of these influences turn mere protests into civil wars.

There is an agenda at work here. One must read between the lines. There are power struggles and they aren't simply regional ones. Perhaps the end result will be another world war, a resetting of the world's financial system and predictably, a New World Order as predicted centuries ago.

X2. We'll said. What I believe too.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Or selling arms to insurgents in Nicaragua.

Or freedom fighters in Afghanistan...

[ali#1]

When have humans not been at a state of unrest.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I wonder what is going on in European and Arab countries? Syria, Egypt, now the Ukraine...is civil unrest the people fighting back against oppression or is it just another political power struggle?

Will this start to happen in north america some day...maybe we will finally get fed up with getting raped by taxes and diesel prices and fight back?

Its not that hard to figure out.

Eventually people get tired of seeing their hard work making others richer while they grt poorer. Eventually peoleget tired of governments that no longer serve them but instead try to make servants of them.

And in the end... the peole always win.

If the Ukranian Presudent had a hal a brain... he'd free the woman that he usuroped on trumped up charges and then book it to Moskow before the military fragments.

If this gets out of hand he might get to experience another easten european tradition... being hanged from a telephone pole.

Protest ended in the Ukraine days ago.
When your citizens are making Molotov cocktails in preparation for the next day... and you are forcing agreements with your opposition under threat of bayonettes... revolution is already under way.

I wish the people of the Ukraine well in their bid for real freedom and real democracy rather than what they have now... another Russian puppet paying lip service to his obligations to the people of that country.