Fishin for dolly's

[slivers86]

Going out to bc and will be targeting dolly's on a river near my home town. Do you fish them just like bull trout, or do they behave differently? I'm planning on stocking up on some streamers prior to leaving, might even try my luck at tying a few up! Any advice on what works out there?

Thanks in advance!

[hardcorefishing]

was catching lots of dolly's in the upper arrow lake a couple months ago. just used a 5 diamond spoon from shore. hope that helps.

[ZackicBrown]

Was in Alaska last week and I hooked into one using artificial salmon eggs?

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by ZackicBrown

Was in Alaska last week and I hooked into one using artificial salmon eggs?

Do they still throw them on to the shore for bear feed?

[muledeerking]

same fish. BC people call the dollies.Alberta people call them bulls.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

same fish. BC people call the dollies.Alberta people call them bulls.

sorry dude people can call them what they wish. they are totally different fish close in color but it ends there. coastal dollies dont snake out with age. they retain a nice chunky bullet shape. not the giant head we often get in the flat lands.

[muledeerking]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

sorry dude people can call them what they wish. they are totally different fish close in color but it ends there. coastal dollies dont snake out with age. they retain a nice chunky bullet shape. not the giant head we often get in the flat lands.

Same fish dude. I have caught hundreds apon hundreds in bothe provinces. Also there is true dollies in both provinces too. just not what the OP is refering to as most dont eavn know the exist. But thanks for your info that is incorrect.

So you are telling me the bulls in the wigwam are different than Alberta bulls? My 20lb Alberta one looks the same as theres.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

Same fish dude. I have caught hundreds apon hundreds in bothe provinces. Also there is true dollies in both provinces too. just not what the OP is refering to as most dont eavn know the exist. But thanks for your info that is incorrect.

So you are telling me the bulls in the wigwam are different than Alberta bulls? My 20lb Alberta one looks the same as theres.

[muledeerking]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

same fish. BC people call the dollies.Alberta people call them bulls.

Originally Posted by fish gunner

sorry dude people can call them what they wish. they are totally different fish close in color but it ends there. coastal dollies dont snake out with age. they retain a nice chunky bullet shape. not the giant head we often get in the flat lands.

Originally Posted by muledeerking

Same fish dude. I have caught hundreds apon hundreds in bothe provinces. Also there is true dollies in both provinces too. just not what the OP is refering to as most dont eavn know the exist. But thanks for your info that is incorrect.

So you are telling me the bulls in the wigwam are different than Alberta bulls? My 20lb Alberta one looks the same as theres.

Bull Trout and Dolly Varden are 2 different species. They can not always be told apart by colour or any other character. Differentiating the 2 often requires molecular (DNA) or morphometric analysis.

This is part of why they are grouped together under the BC reg's.

Familiarity with your watershed is a good way to start knowing which you are catching.

People often use the 2 names interchangeably.

A 20lb bull in AB? Pics? Registered for the provincial record?

Which river are you fishing Slivers?

Use a spoon or spinner.

[hardcorefishing]

Bull Trout and Dolly Varden are 2 different species. They can not always be told apart by colour or any other character. Differentiating the 2 often requires molecular (DNA) or morphometric analysis.

well hate to say this but the dollies that ive caught in bc this year they all got pink spots on them. ya bc and alberta might call them differently but end case scenario they all different bull trout species...

[fish gunner]

wigwam river, bulls, salvelinus confluentus.head dominates body, from BC regs.
kitimat river,dollies,salvelinus malma.oval body not dominated by head. with a little species id they can be told apart. if a river makes the west coat within a hundred or so miles your in dolly varden waters. BC contains both in numbers. Alberta has very few dollies stocked.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by slivers86

Going out to bc and will be targeting dolly's on a river near my home town. Do you fish them just like bull trout, or do they behave differently? I'm planning on stocking up on some streamers prior to leaving, might even try my luck at tying a few up! Any advice on what works out there?

Thanks in advance!

Same as bulls .. imo

here is a few pic of some that were sent to me and me in BC .. first Alberta Bulls.. then BC last 2 one is me

The old Alberta Record that stood for 40 years was 25#13 oz for Bull Trout then some AFGA executive internet police decided that they would not accept a affidavit and have disqualified it ... WOW how does that work?
here is afew big bulls

enjoy

David
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[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by hardcorefishing

Bull Trout and Dolly Varden are 2 different species. They can not always be told apart by colour or any other character. Differentiating the 2 often requires molecular (DNA) or morphometric analysis.

well hate to say this but the dollies that ive caught in bc this year they all got pink spots on them. ya bc and alberta might call them differently but end case scenario they all different bull trout species...

Hate to say atoadaso, but worst case Ontario, you are incorrect.

What are different bull trout species? 2 different kinds of bull trout? The point of species designation is that there is only 1. Do you mean they are all different charr? Many charr have pink spots. What makes you think you caught a Dolly and not a Bull?

Originally Posted by fish gunner

wigwam river, bulls, salvelinus confluentus.head dominates body, from BC regs.
kitimat river,dollies,salvelinus malma.oval body not dominated by head. with a little species id they can be told apart. if a river makes the west coat within a hundred or so miles your in dolly varden waters. BC contains both in numbers. Alberta has very few dollies stocked.

Ya, for sure, using some knowledge of watersheds, in particular, knowing when a watershed only contains one of the two species can greatly aid in determining your catch.

You will find that many Bull trout do not have large heads, so this character can be very misleading. Using this character one would assume there is a healthy population of large Dollies in the k-lakes, however Dollies are only present in Chester Lake in Alberta.

There is still much to learn about both of these species. In the last 10 years the known range of the bull trout has been expanded to 64N, over 500km further north than was previously known.

[Speckle55]

Dolly Varden lots of debate on what is really one and range

Food for Thought
David

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Varden_trout

[muledeerking]

[QUOTE=BeeGuy;1565265]Bull Trout and Dolly Varden are 2 different species. They can not always be told apart by colour or any other character. Differentiating the 2 often requires molecular (DNA) or morphometric analysis.

This is part of why they are grouped together under the BC reg's.

Familiarity with your watershed is a good way to start knowing which you are catching.

People often use the 2 names interchangeably.

A 20lb bull in AB? Pics? Registered for the provincial record?

Which river are you fishing Slivers?

Alberta 20lb bull. No I am not posting a picture of it as it will give locations out. I know of 2 bigger than mine in this province and a few I have seen and herd of in the water that are easy over 20. Also watched a 25lbs bull radio shocked. Also one came out of the irragation canal that was 25lbs

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

Alberta 20lb bull. No I am not posting a picture of it as it will give locations out. I know of 2 bigger than mine in this province and a few I have seen and herd of in the water that are easy over 20. Also watched a 25lbs bull radio shocked. Also one came out of the irragation canal that was 25lbs

cool.

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Dolly Varden lots of debate on what is really one and range

Food for Thought
David

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Varden_trout

The wiki article doesn't really do the issue justice.

Multi gene analyses have shown that there is strong support for Salvelinus as a genus, but differentiation between S.malma, S.confluentus, and S.alpinus is problematic.

Likely, the greater part of the problem is ancient hybridization between/among the 3 species which makes single gene differentiation impossible depending on the population being studied.

Much more work to be done in order to tease out the details of these species respective and intertwined histories.

Some good info here

Also some good info published by the russians.

It's always amazing how little we know.

[slivers86]

Thanks for the advice on how to fish for them those of you who responded.

Any fly fishers with any advice?

good conversation on the species identification. Here is a link that I find informative, might not be good enough for some elitist fisherman who occupy this site though

http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angl...dollyvar.phtml

[tacklerunner]

Fish gunner describes it best in laments terms. There is a distinct difference between the 2 in BC. Dollies are essentially sea run bulls just like rainbows vs steelhead. But dollies are now landlocked in BC lakes and rivers because of all the dams. Doesn't mean dollies and bulls can't breed... but that's a whole other can of worms.

Originally Posted by fish gunner

sorry dude people can call them what they wish. they are totally different fish close in color but it ends there. coastal dollies dont snake out with age. they retain a nice chunky bullet shape. not the giant head we often get in the flat lands.

From the BC regs as per the Ministry of Natural Resources:



Had many a day on Kootenay lake catching dollies and bulls back to back. Out there it's easy to tell the difference. Arrow lakes contain mostly dollies vs. bulls.

Slivers, bigger streamers with more white in them on the fly rod. Bucktail jigs on the spinning rod like the one's you've seen that I tied. (Just a streamer tied on a big 1/2 oz - 1 oz jig head)

[Speckle55]

International Game Fish Assocation .. will not accept a Dolly Varden unless it is from a Known speices area like Wiki has listed as a World Record.. One of the World Record keepers for Rod and Reel .. both Salt Water and Fresh Water and Fly Rod ..
http://www.igfa.org/species/125-dolly-varden.aspx

Just saying

David

[muledeerking]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

International Game Fish Assocation .. will not accept a Dolly Varden unless it is from a Known speices area like Wiki has listed as a World Record.. One of the World Record keepers for Rod and Reel .. both Salt Water and Fresh Water and Fly Rod ..
http://www.igfa.org/species/125-dolly-varden.aspx

Just saying

David

agree 100%.

how many of you have caught a dolley in Alberta? I have a few times. Totally different than a bull. yes bc has more dolleys but I never said they did not exist just not as common as you guys think they are. Put down your books and show me the differnce in your pictures as you guys have caught so many dollies.LOL.

[BeeGuy]

You wanna catch big char in BC, use pike lures whether you're spin or fly fishing.

[EZM]

Tacklerunner - I could be wrong - I wasn't aware there were actually true dollys in Kootenay (costal variety type). I thought this lake was well landlocked and too far inland.

I know the locals call bull trout dollys but they are definitely the bulls (at least how I see them) with big ugly heads, flat bodies and pink/yellow spots. The smaller bulls definitely are more colorful and seem to have a slightly different looking head.

I've caught hundreds of fish out of Kootenay and have never seen a costal type dolly. Lot's of bulls, some brighter than others, but no dollys.

They are quite colorful compared to Alberta's bulls.

[BeeGuy]

Salvelinus malma is not known to occur in Kootenay Lake or the surrounding streams.

[tacklerunner]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Salvelinus malma is not known to occur in Kootenay Lake or the surrounding streams.

Originally Posted by EZM

Tacklerunner - I could be wrong - I wasn't aware there were actually true dollys in Kootenay (costal variety type). I thought this lake was well landlocked and too far inland.

I know the locals call bull trout dollys but they are definitely the bulls (at least how I see them) with big ugly heads, flat bodies and pink/yellow spots. The smaller bulls definitely are more colorful and seem to have a slightly different looking head.

I've caught hundreds of fish out of Kootenay and have never seen a costal type dolly. Lot's of bulls, some brighter than others, but no dollys.

They are quite colorful compared to Alberta's bulls.

Didn't wanna hijack this thread so started a new one...

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=145270

What are your thought???

[FishingFrenzy]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

same fish. BC people call the dollies.Alberta people call them bulls.

Originally Posted by muledeerking

agree 100%.

how many of you have caught a dolley in Alberta? I have a few times. Totally different than a bull. yes bc has more dolleys but I never said they did not exist just not as common as you guys think they are. Put down your books and show me the differnce in your pictures as you guys have caught so many dollies.LOL.

Hmm.... Same fish in first quote, totally different fish in second quote?

To the best of my knowledge, bull trout are predominant in alberta with the exception of Chester Lake which has Dolly Varden's. Chester Lake is supposed to be the only lake in albera with Dollies however there is rumour that some escaped the lake and migrated downstream to Mud Lake (? I think?)


Muledeerking, stop while your ahead, as it is I had to wipe some bulls##t off my screen.

[slivers86]

With all this knowledge, TR gave me some great information on fishing for this species, and a couple of other people did as well. My original questions was do you fish them the same way. I know they aren't the same fish!

Anyways, I will let you guys know how it goes, and hopefully post a pic of my first (since I was 9 years old) dolly!

[muledeerking]

Originally Posted by FishingFrenzy

Hmm.... Same fish in first quote, totally different fish in second quote?

To the best of my knowledge, bull trout are predominant in alberta with the exception of Chester Lake which has Dolly Varden's. Chester Lake is supposed to be the only lake in albera with Dollies however there is rumour that some escaped the lake and migrated downstream to Mud Lake (? I think?)


Muledeerking, stop while your ahead, as it is I had to wipe some bulls##t off my screen.

lol. no I am not going to stop. You guys are trying to give wrong info. They are not dollies. there are dollies in both provices as I have caught many in chester in alberta. I still have never seen a dolly in BC. Also you guy want to post pictures of female bulls and say they are dollies.That is funny. Also I am not conterdicting my self as there are true dollies in both provices chester is the eg. I know of in Alberta and dont know of any in BC.

[tacklerunner]

Originally Posted by muledeerking

lol. no I am not going to stop. You guys are trying to give wrong info. They are not dollies. there are dollies in both provices as I have caught many in chester in alberta. I still have never seen a dolly in BC. Also you guy want to post pictures of female bulls and say they are dollies.That is funny. Also I am not conterdicting my self as there are true dollies in both provices chester is the eg. I know of in Alberta and dont know of any in BC.

Bahahahahahah........ahhahaha. FYI BC is connected to the Pacific ocean. That's the big deep one by hawaii.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by tacklerunner

Bahahahahahah........ahhahaha. FYI BC is connected to the Pacific ocean. That's the big deep one by hawaii.

lol

same one that has junk floating in it from the tsunami in japan I might add!