Bass? Alberta?

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Why should we put our current fisheries at risk and spend additional funds for another put and take fishery? What's the upside to this? What am I missing?

I don't see where it is putting anything at risk and we already had the conversation about cost if you recall

OOps sorry missed your last question the up side would be the addition of a great fish to a fishery the is getting very boring

Originally Posted by horsetrader

I don't see where it is putting anything at risk and we already had the conversation about cost if you recall

I do recall but I'm not sure about your facts. Anyhow, getting back to my question, what's the upside? Bass grow slowly and would require several years to reach a point of providing a put and take fishery, unlike rainbows. I highly doubt our current rainbow hatcheries could double up for bass without considerable cost and while you may not see the risk, there are many that do. So what's the upside?

Edit: Saw your edit above. I'm not really sure your boredom is sufficent reason to incur all these risks and costs...lol Go to BC.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I do recall but I'm not sure about your facts. Anyhow, getting back to my question, what's the upside? Bass grow slowly and would require several years to reach a point of providing a put and take fishery, unlike rainbows. I highly doubt our current rainbow hatcheries could double up for bass without considerable cost and while you may not see the risk, there are many that do. So what's the upside?

Edit: Saw your edit above. I'm not really sure your boredom is sufficent reason to incur all these risks and costs...lol Go to BC.

ok let me ask you this bass have all ready been stocked in albert where is the risks you are talking about I have gone through all the info about that stocking and there is no mention of any risk to any other species in there.So where are the risks.


If you check the links that rocky kindly posted and check the POLE i must not be the only person that feels this way.

[chubbdarter]

I appreciate your concerns.....but go to BC is hardly fair
Go to scotland for browns
Go to cali for Goldens
Go to china for a ringneck
etc..etc...etc..
Im not sure Bass are even native to B.C.....in fact i believe they arnt.

I see no harm in a controlled experiment to see if a viable Bass fishery can exsist in southern alberta...its part of good science and human growth to expand knowledge.

Originally Posted by horsetrader

ok let me ask you this bass have all ready been stocked in albert where is the risks you are talking about I have gone through all the info about that stocking and there is no mention of any risk to any other species in there.So where are the risks.


If you check the links that rocky kindly posted and check the POLE i must not be the only person that feels this way.

Come on horsetrader, you're an intelligent guy. You obviously understand that introducing a non-native voracious predator to an ecosystem comes with risks.

I have no doubt that there are more than you but relieving the boredom of a handful of wannabe Alberta bass anglers hardly justifies the risks and costs. If you are that bored, take a drive west. I do every year and the bass fishing is awesome.

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

I appreciate your concerns.....but go to BC is hardly fair
Go to scotland for browns
Go to cali for Goldens
Go to china for a ringneck
etc..etc...etc..
Im not sure Bass are even native to B.C.....in fact i believe they arnt.

I see no harm in a controlled experiment to see if a viable Bass fishery can exsist in southern alberta...its part of good science and human growth to expand knowledge.

Chubb, when the best arguement you can muster is that two wrongs make a right, you are on pretty shaky ground.

No, bass aren't native to BC nor were they legally stocked.

What is the point of the experiement? Good science and human growth, come on, I snorted cup a soup on my keyboard over that one.

From what I've seen no one has yet to offer a valid reason for this experiment other than they are bored.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Come on horsetrader, you're an intelligent guy. You obviously understand that introducing a non-native voracious predator to an ecosystem comes with risks.

you don't have to get nasty by calling me intelligent........ lol

if you look at things that way then we must ban all fishing all hunting everything because every time we fish hunt or enter the outback we are putting our ecosystem at risk



I have no doubt that there are more than you but relieving the boredom of a handful of wannabe Alberta bass anglers hardly justifies the risks and costs. If you are that bored, take a drive west. I do every year and the bass fishing is awesome.

just think you could have that awesome fishery here


got to go back to work but will be back to play

Originally Posted by horsetrader

just think you could have that awesome fishery here

Possibly but I don't see the risk and costs being justified to find out.

If you really want to get an education on the risks of introducing bass, I suggest you have a talk with a few of the biologists in BC and get their thoughts. They are begrudging living with them now because they are so firmly established but I doubt you could find one that is happy they are there.

Anyhow, I suspect this is a somewhat moot discussion anyhow as the Alberta government has made it abundantly clear that it's not going to happen any time soon.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Chubb, when the best arguement you can muster is that two wrongs make a right, you are on pretty shaky ground.

No, bass aren't native to BC nor were they legally stocked.

What is the point of the experiement? Good science and human growth, come on, I snorted cup a soup on my keyboard over that one.

From what I've seen no one has yet to offer a valid reason for this experiment other than they are bored.

Too find a alternate to a trout stocking program that fails on many levels......
Tell me the Browns in the Bow is a bad thing....they are suited well for the water conditions....they have more intelligence than any Bully....which has been a major down fall of its population.
I snorted pepsi when you posted Go to BC
I understand peacock bass would be a wasted experiment from what i understand.....but variety is possible i believe.
If nothing the experiment done correctly will end the debate and we will all be wiser from it.
I still say try a warm water res. in southern alberta.
I used to have the go some where else attitude also....i told the boys in the quality trout thread to go to BC for trophy trout. But after some thought that hardly says good about AB.
It diversifies OUR fishery and expands oppertunitues for AB anglers....especially for the majority of licence buying anglers that cat afford to leave the province to fish

[Jayhad]

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Yes Browns & rainbows worked out in the bow, a 1 in 1,000,000 fluke. Just look at every creek that has stunted brookies. The bow could have possibly been one of the best cutthroat and bull fisheries in the world. Looking at a mistake made 90 years ago before we knew better that kind-of worked out is not a defense for bass.

Conduct a dangerous experiment to prove a pointless point? Come on chubb, even you can see the folly in that.

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass. I'd love the opportunity to fish bass in my backyard too but when you weigh the risks and costs, that dog just doesn't hunt!

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Perhaps we should introduce fallow deer, for the hunters OH YA we tried that in BC..... hows that working for them

I have relatives in NB that see colder temps than we do and this last year there ice stayed longer.....so i guess they all didnt spawn.

Im not suggesting the Roland Martin and Forrest Wood will have the next Bass Masters Classic on Keho....what i am saying is take some cash from the trout stocking program and lets try to expand our fishery

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass.

you forgot to mention all the small streams that used to be salmon and steelhead rearing streams in the lower mainland which are quickly becoming full of stunted smallies

Originally Posted by Jayhad

you forgot to mention all the small streams that used to be salmon and steelhead rearing streams in the lower mainland which are quickly becoming full of stunted smallies

Ya, there are stories from all over BC like that. Anglers on the Island hate them because they've ruined some great trout fisheries too. I'd rate the smallmouth fishing on the Island as good as anywhere in North America yet the belief amoung most locals is that they are a trash fish. There is definitely no love affair there.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

what i am saying is take some cash from the trout stocking program and lets try to expand our fishery

fair enough but the majority of cash for trout stocking is for put and take lakes..... those people that like to whack and stack "need" their fair share becuase they paid for thier license... when the trout dry up because we aren't stocking those lakes due to the cash is going to fund the new bass hatchery what water shed do you want to open up limits and bait restrictions on?

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Conduct a dangerous experiment to prove a pointless point? Come on chubb, even you can see the folly in that.

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass. I'd love the opportunity to fish bass in my backyard too but when you weigh the risks and costs, that dog just doesn't hunt!

Kootenay bios are shiney fish lovers....ive worked with few.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by mikeo2

He should give you the same link you gave everyone else from another state that has very little relivance here.

So then I assumed you didn't read the 61 page report I posted from Alberta? Being a bit selective, are we?

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Kootenay bios are shiney fish lovers....ive worked with few.

Yup and just look at the negative impact the bass have had on those shiny fish...the same shiny fish found in Alberta. If you've worked with them, I'm sure you understand the risks.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

fair enough but the majority of cash for trout stocking is for put and take lakes..... those people that like to whack and stack "need" their fair share becuase they paid for thier license... when the trout dry up because we aren't stocking those lakes due to the cash is going to fund the new bass hatchery what water shed do you want to open up limits and bait restrictions on?

I dont want the bass season to open at first...i want a controlled experiment done by bass knowledgeable bios to use a closed or strained lake enviroment. If its proven its not possible or feasible to raise bass in a self sustaining nature then its over.....some cost...maybe alot of cost....but we are constantly pouring money now and NOT learning anything

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Yup and just look at the negative impact the bass have had on those shiny fish...the same shiny fish found in Alberta. If you've worked with them, I'm sure you understand the risks.

come on now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those same shiney fish stocked in Alberta are NOT native to Alberta.
unless your ponds are getting a Athabasca strain

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

come on now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those same shiney fish stocked in Alberta are NOT native to Alberta.
unless your ponds are getting a Athabasca strain

So it's okay to introduce another non-native species to Alberta knowing full well that it could severly impact another well established non-native species. You are starting to lose me chubb.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Yes Browns & rainbows worked out in the bow, a 1 in 1,000,000 fluke. Just look at every creek that has stunted brookies. The bow could have possibly been one of the best cutthroat and bull fisheries in the world. Looking at a mistake made 90 years ago before we knew better that kind-of worked out is not a defense for bass.

very few cutties and bullies can live in the water we know as the Bow now.....a brown can cough up a tampon like a cat hacks up a hairball.....it would kill most cutties and bullies

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

So it's okay to introduce another non-native species to Alberta knowing full well that it could severly impact another well established non-native species. You are starting to lose me chubb.

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?

Who said i wanted bass dumped into established meat ponds?

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

I dont want the bass season to open at first...i want a controlled experiment done by bass knowledgeable bios to use a closed or strained lake enviroment. If its proven its not possible or feasible to raise bass in a self sustaining nature then its over.....some cost...maybe alot of cost....but we are constantly pouring money now and NOT learning anything

dude it doesn't take a bass knowledgeable biologist to know we don't have the environment for bass to do well..... just like it doesn't take a arctic hare knowledgeable biologist to know they won't do well in southern Arizona.

But why don't you stop arguing on a pointless thread and do something about it, you have the power to go to a fisheries round table meeting and ask the pro biologists if they can visit the issue...... but post on here what meeting you are going to, I want to see the hillarity that insues.

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

dude it doesn't take a bass knowledgeable biologist to know we don't have the environment for bass to do well..... just like it doesn't take a arctic hare knowledgeable biologist to know they won't do well in southern Arizona.

But why don't you stop arguing on a pointless thread and do something about it, you have the power to go to a fisheries round table meeting and ask the pro biologists if they can visit the issue...... but post on here what meeting you are going to, I want to see the hillarity that insues.

okay i was gonna restrain from cheap shots.....i'll go to the meeting and suggest we would have the greatest cuttie and bully fishery in the world as you referred to if browns didnt exsist

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

they are non native....correct?
so how did it turn out bad?
Your against the non native introduction

[avb3]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?

Who said i wanted bass dumped into established meat ponds?

The introduced rainbow trout have contributed significantly to western cutthroats being listed as a result of competition and particularly hybridization. Anywhere introduced brook trout appeared, the western cutthroat declined significantly or disappeared.

Do we really want to see what effect bass may have?

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

okay i was gonna restrain from cheap shots.....i'll go to the meeting and suggest we would have the greatest cuttie and bully fishery in the world as you referred to if browns didnt exsist

..... I said it could have been, you can even view it. yep you're a true debater good one, you're right we need bass. Where can I sign up


found it www.imtrappedinthementalityofthe60s.com

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by avb3

The introduced rainbow trout have contributed significantly to western cutthroats being listed as a result of competition and particularly hybridization. Anywhere introduced brook trout appeared, the western cutthroat declined significantly or disappeared.

Do we really want to see what effect bass may have?

im still waiting on the info about a brown/bull cross.