Elk Cartridges

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

That is very true. Once it hits the animal the 2 variables change. Although it is the best unit that one can rely on to determine penetration.

So you are telling me that a 160 gr 7mm cup and core bullet will penetrate the same as a 160 gr 7mm mono metal bullet given the same impact velocity and medium? They both have the same SD.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by chuck

So you are telling me that a 160 gr 7mm cup and core bullet will penetrate the same as a 160 gr 7mm mono metal bullet given the same impact velocity and medium? They both have the same SD.

....

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by chuck

So you are telling me that a 160 gr 7mm cup and core bullet will penetrate the same as a 160 gr mono metal bullet given the same impact velocity and medium?

Depends on the expansion of the two bullets. Dont forget when a bullet passes through an animal it doesn't deliver all if its energy to the target. Dumping energy into an animal is very crucial to killing it.

[Rio56]

[QUOTE=Bergerboy;3285821]Depends on the expansion of the two bullets. Dont forget when a bullet passes through an animal it doesn't deliver all if its energy to the target. Dumping energy into an animal is very crucial to killing it.[/QUOTE]

sorry energy has nothing to do with killing .... NOTHING

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Rio56

....

.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Depends on the expansion of the two bullets. Dont forget when a bullet passes through an animal it doesn't deliver all if its energy to the target. Dumping energy into an animal is very crucial to killing it.

You can always tell who kills things and who doesn't if you listen long enough.

[Bergerboy]

[QUOTE=Rio56;3285822]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Depends on the expansion of the two bullets. Dont forget when a bullet passes through an animal it doesn't deliver all if its energy to the target. Dumping energy into an animal is very crucial to killing it.[/QUOTE]

sorry energy has nothing to do with killing .... NOTHING

Interesting. So an FMJ kills as well as a frangible bullet?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by chuck

you can always tell who kills things and who doesn't if you listen long enough.

100%

[Rio56]

[QUOTE=Bergerboy;3285825]

Originally Posted by Rio56

Interesting. So an FMJ kills as well as a frangible bullet?

so a 243 in the rear end with a lot of energy KILLS ... ya good one .. listen long enuf

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Rio56

so a 243 in the rear end with a lot of energy KILLS ... ya good one .. listen long enuf

Ya it probably would. I can see you're not one of the ones chick was talking about.

Animals don't have medics they bleed out eventually

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by chuck

You can always tell who kills things and who doesn't if you listen long enough.

Wondering this myself chuck?

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Depends on the expansion of the two bullets. Dont forget when a bullet passes through an animal it doesn't deliver all if its energy to the target. Dumping energy into an animal is very crucial to killing it.

here I fixed it for you ... stay true and have some respect .. energy does not kill .. so listen up and quit changing the post ...

[Salavee]

Here's my Bull from last year. Where he lays is where he stood.
9.3x62 -286 NP 2430 fps @ 178 yds

Drew a Cow this year ...
Momentum is your friend. lol

[Bergerboy]

[QUOTE=Rio56;3285830]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

so a 243 in the rear end with a lot of energy KILLS ... ya good one .. listen long enuf

Pretty much any shot in the rear end of a critter is not a good one.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

Ya it probably would. I can see you're not one of the ones chick was talking about.

Animals don't have medics they bleed out eventually

OHHHH and shot placement is what ... good grief

[6.5swedeforelk]

Another year, another round of posts ranging from, in my opinion only, words gained by years of experience to... I'm not sure about that.

So a bull elk cannot travel far shot in the front shoulder?

As to the moose shot at 15yds "between the eyes" & the bullet never fully penetrated... total BS.
A 22lr will do that shot.
Did you see the slug recovered yourself?

I suspect that the backing-sitdown is the reflex action of the muzzle blast of a clean miss.


end of post from the grumpy old man section..

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Rio56

OHHHH and shot placement is what ... good grief

Is important for a quick clean kill... But there are enough arteries in the rear end to make an animal very not happy. Even if it doesn't bleed out infection will probably set in

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Another year, another round of posts ranging from, in my opinion only, words gained by years of experience to... I'm not sure about that.

So a bull elk cannot travel far shot in the front shoulder?

As to the moose shot at 15yds "between the eyes" & the bullet never fully penetrated... total BS.
A 22lr will do that shot.
Did you see the slug recovered yourself?

I suspect that the backing-sitdown is the reflex action of the muzzle blast of a clean miss.


end of post from the grumpy old man section..

Wrong They can go far with a shoulder shot.
Bs. Agreed. Beef killed on the farm with a 22 for years.
Slug? Bastards are in the garden. I'm not getting them. You can. So no.
Backing sit down miss? Never experienced that unless the wife played a prune juice/ex lax trick on me.

Not so grumpy younger man. Lol

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Wrong They can go far with a shoulder shot.
Bs. Agreed. Beef killed on the farm with a 22 for years.
Slug? Bastards are in the garden. I'm not getting them. You can. So no.
Backing sit down miss? Never experienced that unless the wife played a prune juice/ex lax trick on me.

Not so grumpy younger man. Lol

They won't go far with a decent shoulder shot .. usually both shoulders are gone using a good bullet and some "horsepower"

Not much point in splattering a shoulder blade with an inadequate cartridge.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Salavee

They won't go far with a decent shoulder shot .. usually both shoulders are gone using a good bullet and some "horsepower"



Guy I mentioned "Leo?" said "at least ONE shoulder..."



Not much point in splattering a shoulder blade with an inadequate cartridge.

Again... guy I referred to stated .277 caliber minimum.

My personal recovery tracking of the bull was shoulder shot with a 180gr Federal 30-06 at <100yds, clear shot.

I usually try to have my facts straight before I speak.




Leo, I'm not ragging on you, just adding what I experienced.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Again... guy I referred to stated .277 caliber minimum.

My personal recovery tracking of the bull was shoulder shot with a 180gr Federal 30-06 at <100yds, clear shot.

I usually try to have my facts straight before I speak.




Leo, I'm not ragging on you, just adding what I experienced.

I just opened my calipers up to 0.013" thats the difference between a 0.264" bullet and s 0.277" bullet. Does it really make a difference?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

It is absolutely useless. It measures a bullets ability to penetrate air and that is it. Measuring sectional density of an expanded projectile has more meaning. Cup and core bullets are all over the map. Mono metals not so much. Now the real reason heavier bullets penetrate farther has more to do with momentum and has little if nothing to do with the SD number on the side of the box.

Are you getting SD and BC mixed up ? SD has nothing to do with penetrating air. Ballistic Coefficient does.

[leo]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Again... guy I referred to stated .277 caliber minimum.

My personal recovery tracking of the bull was shoulder shot with a 180gr Federal 30-06 at <100yds, clear shot.

I usually try to have my facts straight before I speak.




Leo, I'm not ragging on you, just adding what I experienced.

Rag all you want. 130 TTSX at 3400 FPS from a 270 Weatherby makes a hole through a lot of elk. So does a 140 grain TTSX from a 280 AI. my experience is from shooting over 20 elk. Like I said probably more than most but less than some. My usual elk rifle is a 300 Weatherby with a 180 Nosler Partition. Longest shot was probably 300 yards. Most were around 150.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Are you getting SD and BC mixed up ? SD has nothing to do with penetrating air. Ballistic Coefficient does.

I think there is more "mixing up" than just a couple of variables at play here.
Very nice elk by the way!

[rem338win]

Bergerboy should write articles for Guns and Ammo. Misdirects and old wives tales always deserve repeating.

And for the record BC is a measurement of how well a bullet resists air friction, gravity and air movement (read wind). Gravity is a constant that air friction plays against (read drop). That's why elevation and humidity matter.

SD is moot. All bullets have to be equal in construction and material for it to matter. That changed over 50 years ago.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Bergerboy should write articles for Guns and Ammo. Misdirects and old wives tales always deserve repeating.

And for the record BC is a measurement of how well a bullet resists air friction, gravity and air movement (read wind). Gravity is a constant that air friction plays against (read drop). That's why elevation and humidity matter.

SD is moot. All bullets have to be equal in construction and material for it to matter. That changed over 50 years ago.

Thanks! Wait.....what????Gravity is now a constant?????9.81m/s2 is always the same?????But now elevation matters??? Why does elevation matter if gravity is a constant......or is it?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

As to the moose shot at 15yds "between the eyes" & the bullet never fully penetrated... total BS.
A 22lr will do that shot.
Did you see the slug recovered yourself?

I suspect that the backing-sitdown is the reflex action of the muzzle blast of a clean miss.

Incorrect. I've used a .22 on hogs and beef and switched to light .410 slugs. It worked 99% of the time but quite the rodeo when it doesn't. I also witnessed the same thing with a .338 on a Buffalo and I had two 150gr ballistic tips out of a 30-06 pancake on the forehead of a steer. Funny things can happen.

All of them hit their haunches at the shot. Then hopped up at some point and went right sideways.

[sns2]

I shot a moose one time using a 308 with 165 grain Remington Corelokts. The bull was about 100 yards away standing broadside. I was aiming for his neck, so as not to screw up meat, but just as I was about to squeeze, he turned and looked straight at me, in the process covering up his neck. So, I gave it to him right in the forehead, at least that's where I was aiming. He dropped in his tracks. Right now. Haunches first like the lights were turned off. I walked up. he appeared stone cold dead. I poked him with a stick, and he kicked his back leg. I gave him one behind the ear. When we skinned that moose back at camp, there was only one hole in that moose. Right behind his ear. Perplexing. I don't dwell on it, and can't say for sure what happened, but I had a good rest, and I am pretty sure I drilled him right between the eyes and the bullet did not penetrate. Maybe my guardian angel drop kicked the bull in the nuts? I just don't know, but he tasted good.

So... I am not gonna be quick to call BS on the other poster.

[Don_Parsons]

Had good luck with 300 Weathery 200gr, and 270, 308, as well as 30-06.

150gr or 165gr all worked awesome over the years on many large critters.

Front draw works stops them in tracks.

Pal Don

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Here's my Bull from last year. Where he lays is where he stood.
9.3x62 -286 NP 2430 fps @ 178 yds

Drew a Cow this year ...
Momentum is your friend. lol

Back on track...
Nice bull and also that's a great choice for big game cartridge.