Elk Cartridges

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Are you getting SD and BC mixed up ? SD has nothing to do with penetrating air. Ballistic Coefficient does.

I am not confusing them. No.

[Norwest Alta]

Well after a dozen or more elk shot I will say that sd,bc and what ever else anyone can dream up has not played a knowingly role. I will say that a accurate rifle with a good bullet has. My advice to anyone looking for a elk rifle would be to buy the biggest chambering that you can competently shoot. For me this is a tikka 695 in 338 win mag. We all started out as novice elk hunters and many of us have stumbled along the way to gain experience. I hate to see a animal get away but it does happen and is not necessarily a bad thing. Predators have to eat as well. There is a few lessons learned in a lost animal. Probably the biggest lesson learned is using a chambering adequate enough for the animal your intending to shoot.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I just opened my calipers up to 0.013" thats the difference between a 0.264" bullet and s 0.277" bullet. Does it really make a difference?

Yes it does. Compare any caliber you wish to a bullet of the same weight and construction but with a higher SD (bullet frontal area) and you will discover ..

[Salavee]

Here is a good read from a guy I have a lot of respect for. He's just an ordinary Joe like the rest of us who does a lot of extraordinary research on bullet performance ,ballistics etc.


https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/tag...ional-density/

[6.5swedeforelk]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CRLCjrzG4q8

I recall this as magazine ad in the late 60's.

Solid oak , and somehow a 2900 ft lb bullet does not pass thru the frontal skull plate.


And no one challenging that "between the eyes" is a near miss of a moose's brain?

A tilt of the head & you're blowing his nose.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

Is important for a quick clean kill... But there are enough arteries in the rear end to make an animal very not happy. Even if it doesn't bleed out infection will probably set in

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Wondering this myself chuck?

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Well after a dozen or more elk shot I will say that sd,bc and what ever else anyone can dream up has not played a knowingly role. I will say that a accurate rifle with a good bullet has. My advice to anyone looking for a elk rifle would be to buy the biggest chambering that you can competently shoot. [B]For me [B] this is a tikka 695 in 338 win mag. We all started out as novice elk hunters and many of us have stumbled along the way to gain experience. I hate to see a animal get away but it does happen and is not necessarily a bad thing. Predators have to eat as well. There is a few lessons learned in a lost animal. Probably the biggest lesson learned is using a chambering adequate enough for the animal your intending to shoot.

I have harvested my share of big game animals over the years .. including elk..
What really amuses me is that you have shot big game and have no clue as to why or how the bullet kills , energy maybe ? ..you don't know and don't care what " sd, bc and whatever else anyone can dream up has not played a knowingly role " this is very funny actually .. You don't understand any of this and yet can recommend the 338 win mag ...
I would like to challenge you and berger boy to explain what makes the 338 a better elk cartridge and caliber then the 243 win or is it ..how does a 338 kill better .... can you handle that ....

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I can recommend the 338 because I've proven it to myself that it worked better then my 30-06. How it worked, why it worked I . I'm sure you'll tell me though.

good reply .... experience does count ...

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Rio56

good reply .... experience does count ...

What do you use for elk work?

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

What do you use for elk work?

7 rem mag , 300 win and more recently 325 wsm ..have seen a lot of other cartridges in action though ....

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Rio56

7 rem mag , 300 win and more recently 325 wsm ..have seen a lot of other cartridges in action though ....

Me to. Don't know much about the 325 though.

[Flight01]

Have taken a few moose and been with partners when they taken moose, but only one elk. Moose have been with 30-30, 303, 270,308,30-06, 7mmmag, 338rcm. Some recovered bullets which I will try to find and take pics.
The elk I took with 7 rem mag and 160 Nosler , one shot pass through at 325 yards.
I'm planning on using the 338rcm for elk and moose from here on , with my 308 as my backup.
What's the experience out there with 338's? From 338 federal, 338-06, 338rcm, 338 win mag, 338 edge???
What weight bullet for the 338 you use?
I am running 225 grain interbonds in my 338 rcm, it's ballistically between a 338-06 and 338 win mag.

[sevenmil]

An interesting discussion, for sure. I fully understand that any legal big game cartridge from the .243. on up to the .338 Win Mag or larger, can cleanly harvest an elk under the right conditions.

But don't try and tell me that a.243 is as capable an elk cartridg as the .338 Win mag. Now you might have an argument if you were to suggest that a competent hunter and rifleman has a better chance of bringing home the bacon (elk) with a .243 than a bumbling idiot hunting elk with a .338 that causes him to flinch every time he pulls the trigger. But come on. Hunter capability being equal, the .338 is clearly more capable of getting the job done in more situations. Come on.

[The Spruce]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Just a show of hands of the participants.

Who has shot more than one elk?

I've got a feeling many have read about shooting elk and few have shot elk.

I've shot a few using 30-06 with 165 Hornady btsp. They did the job but after switching to a 338 win mag with 185 Barnes ttsx I feel that the the elk I've shot haven't stood a chance.
I've shot a few animals and consider myself a above average shot but elk are by far the toughest tastiest animal on four legs that I've tangled with.

12+ for me. Mostly Bulls. Used to shoot a .280 Sako, loved that gun...until I hunted Elk in the mountains. Its not real cool when the Elk make it over the next ridge before expiring. I now and have for 10+ years shoot a Rem 300 RUM in a Sendaro, tack driving beauty.

Spruce

[nsc86]

"THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS"
If in doubt. Go bigger.
If you plan on taking a longer shots. Go BIGGER
If your going under 200 yds, go a little lighter.
The phrase "better safe than sorry" should be applied to this thread. I know 100% that elk is going down with a .300.... opposed to I'm hoping it will go down with a .243.
The game deserves a swift kill, Give them it.

[Slash8]

[QUOTE= Maybe my guardian angel drop kicked the bull in the nuts? I just don't know, but he tasted good.

So... I am not gonna be quick to call BS on the other poster.[/QUOTE]

I just spit coffee all over my desk, I needed that.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by sevenmil

An interesting discussion, for sure. I fully understand that any legal big game cartridge from the .243. on up to the .338 Win Mag or larger, can cleanly harvest an elk under the right conditions.

But don't try and tell me that a.243 is as capable an elk cartridg as the .338 Win mag. Now you might have an argument if you were to suggest that a competent hunter and rifleman has a better chance of bringing home the bacon (elk) with a .243 than a bumbling idiot hunting elk with a .338 that causes him to flinch every time he pulls the trigger. But come on. Hunter capability being equal, the .338 is clearly more capable of getting the job done in more situations. Come on.

exactly ... but didn't you forget how shot placement makes up for lack of horsepower , .... Like I said way back this shot placement thing is way more important for the small calibers and cartridges and way over done ... it has to be the perfect angle for them to be effective , if you don't wanna risk losing a huge bull and even then it's touchy ...

[smith88]

The ballistics of the 7×57mm became popular with deer and plains game hunters. The relatively flat trajectory and manageable recoil ensured its place as a sportsman's cartridge. The 7×57mm can offer very good penetrating ability due to a fast twist rate that enables it to fire long, heavy bullets. This made it popular in Africa, where it was used on animals up to and including elephants, for which it was particularly favoured by noted ivory hunter W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell, who shot about 800 African Elephants with 1893 pattern 7×57mm military ball ammunition using Rigby Mauser 98 rifles, when most ivory hunters were using larger-caliber rifles, Bell selected the cartridge for moderate recoil, and used 11.2-gram (172.8 gr) long round-nosed military full metal jacket bullets for reliable penetration. Bell sectioned an elephant skull to determine the size and location of the brain, and used careful aim to ensure bullet placement in the brain.

From Wikipedia

Fired at a modest 2300-2500 FPS, 2025-2450ft-lbs of energy. I believe that it is about getting close enough to your target, and hitting it in the correct spot.

[Norwest Alta]

All these stories from legendary hunters are all success stories. You never hear of their failures. I was always told to never believe anything you hear and only believe half of what you see. My experiences have taught me to use enough gun.

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by Rio56

exactly ... but didn't you forget how shot placement makes up for lack of horsepower , .... Like I said way back this shot placement thing is way more important for the small calibers and cartridges and way over done ... it has to be the perfect angle for them to be effective , if you don't wanna risk losing a huge bull and even then it's touchy ...

Not 100% sure what to get from that post, it is hard to tell if you are agreeing with me or being sarcastic. I never said anything about shot placement not being important. But there are shots I would not take with a .243 that I wouldn't hesitate to to take with a .338 when hunting elk or moose. It's called penetration. I have hunted long enough and taken enough game, large and small, to know that the perfect shot does not always present itself. Most of my game has been taken with a .280 Rem and 140 gr. Barnes triple shocks. It has proven to be a very capable combination but there have been times I wished I was packing a little more. Have a .338 now which I picked up for guiding in B.C. And have been happy with it so far. Have only taken a couple elk with it so far and a few deer but so far I like what I see. By the way I am not saying you need a.338 to hunt deer....

[newhunterjp]

Here is my proposal to you guys... Read this book and you will definitely expand your understanding about aloy of topics always argue here... Facts Facts Facts.... No reason for debate

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by sevenmil

Not 100% sure what to get from that post, it is hard to tell if you are agreeing with me or being sarcastic. I never said anything about shot placement not being important. But there are shots I would not take with a .243 that I wouldn't hesitate to to take with a .338 when hunting elk or moose. It's called penetration. I have hunted long enough and taken enough game, large and small, to know that the perfect shot does not always present itself. Most of my game has been taken with a .280 Rem and 140 gr. Barnes triple shocks. It has proven to be a very capable combination but there have been times I wished I was packing a little more. Have a .338 now which I picked up for guiding in B.C. And have been happy with it so far. Have only taken a couple elk with it so far and a few deer but so far I like what I see. By the way I am not saying you need a.338 to hunt deer....

AGREE .... didn't mean to sound sarcastic... my mistake ...the 338 class cartridge is most certainly the direction to go for a dedicated elk round .. I was challenging the 243 , 6.5 followers to explain how their caliber works on elk size game ... I shoot a 325 wsm

[Don_Parsons]

I was planning on a 7mm-08, and doing lots of reading too see if it fits my hunting and target range stuff.

I like the 7, but I'm starting too see it gives me "limited" range when getting into the larger size game,,, "not saying it can't be done, but I'm not keen on being under gunned".

Just me is all.

Good read on this caliber as I continue too game plan.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...Remington.html

Pal Don

PS: Here's a list of calibers they tested so far...

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...cted=cartridge research

If one choose too, take the time too read the 30-06 page as it breaks things down on bullets from 110 too 220,,, and many different brands and how they act at expansion at different ranges...

"For those like me that enjoy this kind of stuff".

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

I was planning on a 7mm-08, and doing lots of reading too see if it fits my hunting and target range stuff.

I like the 7, but I'm starting too see it gives me "limited" range when getting into the larger size game,,, "not saying it can't be done, but I'm not keen on being under gunned".

Just me is all.

Good read on this caliber as I continue too game plan.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...Remington.html

Pal Don

Hi Don .. the 7-08 is a great cartridge , on smaller to medium game ... I do have something to add .. TERRAIN ... is very important as to what you shoot ... The 6.5 or 243 in Montana or southern Alberta is kool , watch the elk run for 15 miles and 3 hours .. Put this in the bush when a shoulder shot and a short recovery is a big deal , then no thanks ... seen it ....

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by Rio56

AGREE .... didn't mean to sound sarcastic... my mistake ...the 338 class cartridge is most certainly the direction to go for a dedicated elk round .. I was challenging the 243 , 6.5 followers to explain how their caliber works on elk size game ... I shoot a 325 wsm

Well there are many cartridge/bullet combinations that will work well on elk if good judgement is used in knowing when to shoot and when not to.
Some guys can't handle recoil.
Some guys can. For the guy that can't he is better off with a cartridge he can shoot well. Pick a good bullet and get to it.
No use telling the guys that are shooting heavier cartridges that what they are doing is wrong if they can shoot them well. Try telling an African PH that what cartridge you are using really makes no difference....

[Don_Parsons]

I hear yha Rio, I lost 1 deer in all my years dew too me taking bad shot from 243,,, "not rifles fault".

All my doing, so I upper'ed my game plan way back when too stop all furry critters in their tracks from there on in.

Very lucky for the last 32 out of 40 as I "hope" too continue the trend.

I was surprised the difference between barrel lengths and how much things play out with them in fast and slow burning powders...

I normally just bought bigger lead to harvest the thick skin, Ha. So far so good.

Pal Don

[newhunterjp]

I couldnt find a deer i shoy with a 338....it was vaporized.. Lol

[petew]

I don't hold over, or use a scope with all those extra Kentucky hash marks in it. Sighted at 3" high @100 yards each caliber has it's center of rib hold distance for a clean kill shot. Nothing but Nosler partitions or Swift A Frames in centerfires . This year I will be toting a 6.5 x 55 , and a 9.3 x 62 when it isn't a bow or flinter. The 243 with 100 gr partitions could see some time also .

I won't take a marginal shot with anything , even the 7MM Mag or the 9.3 x 62 with 286 gr partitions . If I wouldn't stick an arrow there I won't stick a bullet their either.
500 yards is farther than I want to walk to look for blood and hair , or cary out quarters ,and after hunting mostly with Longbows / Recurves where 30 yards is max, and 70 yards for the Flinters I consider 300 yards a very long shot. It isn't hard to get closer than 300 yards after hunting with Traditional gear for a while.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by newhunterjp

I couldnt find a deer i shoy with a 338....it was vaporized.. Lol

ya hafta hit it first

[leo]

You know fella's. There are a lot of new and young hunters out there who can't afford to have an arsenal for every occasion. They sure as hell don't need to start with a 338. I know because that's what I did. My first rifle I bought was a 338 Browning. Meanest kicking SOB I've ever owned. Hunt elk with what you've got. Learn to shoot it well from field positions, use a good quality bullet that gives reasonable accuracy, know the anatomy of your quarry and most important. Know your limitations on range. Owning and shooting a large Magnum rifle is not for everyone. And for most shots taken at game, they aren't needed. I shoot Magnum rifles because I want to. Not because I think I have to. There's been a lot of game taken with a 303, a 7x57 or a 6.5x55 in Africa. These people knew their limitations and they were good shots.

[sevenmil]

Nobody ever said accuracy and shot placement weren't important. Nobody ever said everyone should start out with a cannon. I started with a .243 when I was 14. I moved on up to a .280 Rem when in my early 20s. Experience showed me over the years that with that rifle and a good bullet I could successfully hunt anything in Alberta that you can draw a tag for. Experience also showed me that there were times I wished I had something bigger. My .280 is still my favourite hunting rifle. Do I think it is a better elk cartridge than the .338 win mag? No.