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03-10-2018, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little red riding hood
I've got an idea, how about striped pajamas and a chain around their ankles and let them work for minimum wage until they've paid off that truck or quad they stole!!! That way it's not a free cot and 3 squares a day. They don't get a free ride on tax dollars after committing a crime.
Just a thought.
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I frankly don't have an issue with tough love time served.
Lots of manual labour out there. How about spending the summers picking rocks from farmers fields. Shovelling raw manure.
Winters shovelling snow and erecting snow fences.
Prison is not a holiday but it could be more of a physical deterrent.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-10-2018, 09:12 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 00
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
I frankly don't have an issue with tough love time served.
Lots of manual labour out there. How about spending the summers picking rocks from farmers fields. Shovelling raw manure.
Winters shovelling snow and erecting snow fences.
Prison is not a holiday but it could be more of a physical deterrent.
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Amen! Steal a farmers quad? Go pick rocks or roots until it's paid off!
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03-10-2018, 09:20 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,372
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In my opinion, better punishment is the key. Either forced labor or caning, something that is more cost effective than the crap we have now. No wonder we have so much trouble with thieves and crime in general. The message is, it's not that serious, here have a hug and a tummy rub and away you go. Sickening!
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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03-10-2018, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 1,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
No, we need to change the laws.
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Yes, I agree some laws should be changed to reflect our ever changing society. I still will not agree to using deadly force unless there is an imminent threat of grevious bodily harm or death. Confronting can be as simple as shouting at the thieves that you have called the police and they should leave. Also, the law does protect you for using a reasonable amount of force to stop the crime being committed. You can also detain until the police arrives. So, POS is rummaging through your truck, you catch him in a bear hug and proceed to tickle POS until the police arrives. As long as you don't tickle him to death, you're all good.
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03-10-2018, 09:29 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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I hope Ed and Gerald come out of this knowing a lot of good folks got their backs.
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03-10-2018, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 8,369
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sheriff Arpaio
Chaingangs wouldn't bother me at all
If you don't like it here don't come back
Joe Arpaio
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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03-10-2018, 09:38 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heybert
Yes, I agree some laws should be changed to reflect our ever changing society. I still will not agree to using deadly force unless there is an imminent threat of grevious bodily harm or death. Confronting can be as simple as shouting at the thieves that you have called the police and they should leave. Also, the law does protect you for using a reasonable amount of force to stop the crime being committed. You can also detain until the police arrives. So, POS is rummaging through your truck, you catch him in a bear hug and proceed to tickle POS until the police arrives. As long as you don't tickle him to death, you're all good.
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While you're shouting will you have a firearm?
I just couldn't imagine not being prepared. I've heard unless I'm or my family is in imminent danger. How long does it take to go from rummaging in your truck to danger to imminent danger to dead? Not very long imo.
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03-10-2018, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heybert
Yes, I agree some laws should be changed to reflect our ever changing society. I still will not agree to using deadly force unless there is an imminent threat of grevious bodily harm or death. Confronting can be as simple as shouting at the thieves that you have called the police and they should leave. Also, the law does protect you for using a reasonable amount of force to stop the crime being committed. You can also detain until the police arrives. So, POS is rummaging through your truck, you catch him in a bear hug and proceed to tickle POS until the police arrives. As long as you don't tickle him to death, you're all good.
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Let's look at your key point. Ever changing society.
Your premise is we need to adjust to crime.
Crime is falling...property crime is falling.
Seems more like tweaking current policy to reflect a move by some to exploit areas with sparse policing.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-10-2018, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 1,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
While you're shouting will you have a firearm?
I just couldn't imagine not being prepared. I've heard unless I'm or my family is in imminent danger. How long does it take to go from rummaging in your truck to danger to imminent danger to dead? Not very long imo.
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Naw......only have an ornamental piece made of wood with a 12" metal tube with a diameter of 12 g.........
Btw, I didn't mention that the shouting should be done within the confines of your home. Gives you protection until the time that POS decides to try and enter your home. Then legal articulation is your friend......
....the person was making loud banging noises, trying to open my front door. I felt afraid and in fear for my life and my family's life. I took my gun out of the safe and loaded it as I glimpsed something that looked like a gun in the person's hand. I shouted to the person to leave, that the police are on their way and that I am armed with a gun. I made several attempts to persuade the person to leave, but he was intent on getting in. He was shouting that he will kill me and do things to my wife and children. Once the person came through the door, I had no choice but to stop the imminent threat to myself and my family.........
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03-10-2018, 10:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 1,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Let's look at your key point. Ever changing society.
Your premise is we need to adjust to crime.
Crime is falling...property crime is falling.
Seems more like tweaking current policy to reflect a move by some to exploit areas with sparse policing.
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Have to agree with tweaking current policy, as legislation takes too long to change
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03-10-2018, 10:15 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 928
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Finally a few that get what I'm saying. I agree the laws need to change. I'm ok with harsher sentences that ramp up for multiple offences. I'm ok with thieves paying off their debt to society. I'm not ok with using a gun to stop theft.
At newview I never said I was anti confrontational. I'm against confronting people with deadly force.
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03-10-2018, 10:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerThomson
Finally a few that get what I'm saying. I agree the laws need to change. I'm ok with harsher sentences that ramp up for multiple offences. I'm ok with thieves paying off their debt to society. I'm not ok with using a gun to stop theft.
At newview I never said I was anti confrontational. I'm against confronting people with deadly force.
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No I get just fine what you're saying.
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03-10-2018, 10:21 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerThomson
Finally a few that get what I'm saying. I agree the laws need to change. I'm ok with harsher sentences that ramp up for multiple offences. I'm ok with thieves paying off their debt to society. I'm not ok with using a gun to stop theft.
At newview I never said I was anti confrontational. I'm against confronting people with deadly force.
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Man NO ONE gets what your saying.
We respect your right to say it though.
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03-10-2018, 10:27 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReconWilly
Man NO ONE gets what your saying.
We respect your right to say it though.
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He's saying. Come take my stuff I've got insurance. He's also saying don't hurt me just take my stuff.
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03-10-2018, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 388
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This can never be black and white. You can envision scenarios where it is wrong on both sides.
Scenario 1) kids in rural area are out late, and run out of gas, they've had drinks so they are afraid to call their parents, think they'll take the car away from them, it's cold, so they sneak onto a nearby farm, their judgement is clouded and they try to get into a shop thinking they might steal some gas. The farmer is away on holidays but has rigged the shop door, once the teenager pries it open a shotgun literally blows his head right off. The second teenager is severely wounded an bleeds out in the snow.
Yeah, so glad those kids got what they deserved (?)
Scenario 2) farmer comes home, 3 men are loading equipment out of his shop, he knows that they'll be long gone by the time cops come, he wants to stop them. There's 3 of them, one of him. He should just stroll up with nothing, or he grabs his rifle and tells them to stop what they are doing. They spot the farmer and start walking toward him, he tell's them the cops are on their way, but they keep coming, and he shoots.
How do we craft a law that covers all these scenarios? Pretty tough. These examples are pretty far apart, but over time, sure as hell, every possible scenario will play out, and the laws will never be perfect for all of them.
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03-10-2018, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 1,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReconWilly
Man NO ONE gets what your saying.
We respect your right to say it though.
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Recon,
I'd appreciate it if you make the above statement as your own and not the statement of the community. As part of the community, I do not agree with your statement that I do not get what he is saying.
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03-10-2018, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heybert
Yes, I agree some laws should be changed to reflect our ever changing society. I still will not agree to using deadly force unless there is an imminent threat of grevious bodily harm or death. Confronting can be as simple as shouting at the thieves that you have called the police and they should leave. Also, the law does protect you for using a reasonable amount of force to stop the crime being committed. You can also detain until the police arrives. So, POS is rummaging through your truck, you catch him in a bear hug and proceed to tickle POS until the police arrives. As long as you don't tickle him to death, you're all good.
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Yes you can shout at them but the way the law stands right now the thief is going to shout back. " the police will not be here for a hour so go back in your house and be safe. I need to go through your things and help my self" and you have to do as he says.
Being able to confront them with something in your hand to protect yourself should be a no brainer. There is no shooting a thief unless he pushes the confrontation then all things are fair game for the property owner is the way the law should be applied.
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03-10-2018, 10:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heybert
Naw......only have an ornamental piece made of wood with a 12" metal tube with a diameter of 12 g.........
Btw, I didn't mention that the shouting should be done within the confines of your home. Gives you protection until the time that POS decides to try and enter your home. Then legal articulation is your friend......
....the person was making loud banging noises, trying to open my front door. I felt afraid and in fear for my life and my family's life. I took my gun out of the safe and loaded it as I glimpsed something that looked like a gun in the person's hand. I shouted to the person to leave, that the police are on their way and that I am armed with a gun. I made several attempts to persuade the person to leave, but he was intent on getting in. He was shouting that he will kill me and do things to my wife and children. Once the person came through the door, I had no choice but to stop the imminent threat to myself and my family.........
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Gopro mounted to the ornamental stick or on a hat would make for a very quick trial one would have to think. 'Threat looked real on the video and the homeowner tried several times to persuade the dead criminal to choose another destiny.'
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought..... 
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03-10-2018, 10:46 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffy71
This can never be black and white. You can envision scenarios where it is wrong on both sides.
Scenario 1) kids in rural area are out late, and run out of gas, they've had drinks so they are afraid to call their parents, think they'll take the car away from them, it's cold, so they sneak onto a nearby farm, their judgement is clouded and they try to get into a shop thinking they might steal some gas. The farmer is away on holidays but has rigged the shop door, once the teenager pries it open a shotgun literally blows his head right off. The second teenager is severely wounded an bleeds out in the snow.
Yeah, so glad those kids got what they deserved (?)
Scenario 2) farmer comes home, 3 men are loading equipment out of his shop, he knows that they'll be long gone by the time cops come, he wants to stop them. There's 3 of them, one of him. He should just stroll up with nothing, or he grabs his rifle and tells them to stop what they are doing. They spot the farmer and start walking toward him, he tell's them the cops are on their way, but they keep coming, and he shoots.
How do we craft a law that covers all these scenarios? Pretty tough. These examples are pretty far apart, but over time, sure as hell, every possible scenario will play out, and the laws will never be perfect for all of them.
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Absolutely. Every situation will be different. It all depends on the circumstances of each situation. Regardless should the victim be the criminal? I don't believe that the victim should have to spend his life savings to prove that he is a victim. Board of inquiry or some thing similar to possibly see if the landowner was justified in doing what he did might be welcome. Then criminal charges if warranted.
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03-10-2018, 10:51 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReconWilly
Man NO ONE gets what your saying.
We respect your right to say it though.
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Tylers pretty easy to understand. Problem is people dont want to listen to what he says..
Theres a weird mentality around here where people need to gang up against someone if he doesnt agree with others.
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03-10-2018, 10:52 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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What comes to mind is the rules of engagement our military follows. Why would anyone in the event of a 2 way shooting gallery want to wait to be shot at first before returning fire? I'm not to keen on letting someone have the first poke. What of they're pretty handy with the weapon of their choice?
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03-10-2018, 11:06 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heybert
You guys read Huntinstuff's post? Read your criminal code and understand why the landowner is being charged. It sucks, but there are reasons why we have laws. What needs to change is our court system. Harsher penalties for repeat offenders.
It's your first, we'll take it easy on you. Do it a second time and you'll wish you didn't.
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people have already forgotten about that thread which is interesting. People have forgotten you can not shoot someome unless your life is in immediate danger.
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03-10-2018, 11:10 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Crime is falling...property crime is falling.
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Is crime really falling? or are fewer people bothering to report crimes?
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03-10-2018, 11:13 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Is crime really falling? or are fewer people bothering to report crimes?
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Thought I heard it was up 14%
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03-10-2018, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 1,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
What comes to mind is the rules of engagement our military follows. Why would anyone in the event of a 2 way shooting gallery want to wait to be shot at first before returning fire? I'm not to keen on letting someone have the first poke. What of they're pretty handy with the weapon of their choice?
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Might want to get the input of some of our military folks on here. I think it all depends on the situation whether they fire first or not. My only experience in engagement is scenario and LE based. So different from military.
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03-10-2018, 11:16 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
What comes to mind is the rules of engagement our military follows. Why would anyone in the event of a 2 way shooting gallery want to wait to be shot at first before returning fire? I'm not to keen on letting someone have the first poke. What of they're pretty handy with the weapon of their choice?
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Rules of engagement change a lot....contact wait one....just saying.
Thier first poke was tresspassing....brrrrrraaaapp, brrrraaaap, brrrraaappp... 
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent... 
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03-10-2018, 11:22 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
Thought I heard it was up 14%
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Up 14% from what? I'd say it's higher than that Norwest. I'm asking are people bothering to report petty crimes anymore?
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03-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Is crime really falling? or are fewer people bothering to report crimes?
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Stats were provided. Fee free to find other stats to suit your position. Fact is crime is decreasing in Canada.
Remember that graph is for all of Canada. In specific areas crime can be higher than other areas.
In those areas policing practices need to be adjusted accordingly.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-10-2018, 11:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Up 14% from what? I'd say it's higher than that Norwest. I'm asking are people bothering to report petty crimes anymore?
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Define petty crime.
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t report theft or break ins.
If you don’t it is you to blame for not letting police know where they have crime to address.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-10-2018, 11:27 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Up 14% from what? I'd say it's higher than that Norwest. I'm asking are people bothering to report petty crimes anymore?
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Figure I seen on the news. Don't know from when to when. I'd be surprised if all thefts are reported. Probably quite a few aren't because some would be attempted thefts as well.
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