Round up on our forests

[pikergolf]

Que the forestry apologists. Seems backwards to me. Thoughts?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...year-1.4907358

[landowner]

Actually I see both sides of this , aspen encroachment has become a real problem on our eastern slopes. However if it wasn’t for the aspen the Kenow fire would have been a lot worse.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by landowner

Actually I see both sides of this , aspen encroachment has become a real problem on our eastern slopes. However if it wasn’t for the aspen the Kenow fire would have been a lot worse.

Lot of our farmland was created by removing Aspens, I remember as a kid, the area between Red Deer and Rocky was almost solid Aspen forest.

Grizz

[bloopbloob]

I think this could be a great idea, if implemented strategically, in a grid pattern possibly. Conifers are more desirable for commercial purposes, but definitely more susceptible to fire. Leaving wide grids of aspen and poplar would certainly help with slowing down the spread of wild fires, don't just blanket large areas. By selectively creating large, commercially viable conifer forests, they will also be creating an increased chance of losing it all due to fires...

[Scott h]

Killing all the aspen/birch/willow/berries and then wondering why moose numbers are down........

[Mikeham]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Que the forestry apologists. Seems backwards to me. Thoughts?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...year-1.4907358

We are so f—-ed.

[Geraldsh]

Humans are short-timers. Give the forest enough time and it will cycle through the aspens to a mix of conifers and deciduous, with all species being healthier for it.
The unintended consequences always bite us in the end.

[britman101]

Another royal screw up by government officials. They really don't care about the ecosystem but instead spray a known carcinogen on great tracts of forests to weed out the aspen trees. Man knows better than Mother Nature in how to grow a better forest. Like hell!! Is it any wonder that moose numbers along with other ungulate numbers have plummetted. What happens when this stuff gets into salmon bearing streams as this stuff cannot be good for salmon fry. The only reason they are doing this is to try and maximize returns from pine forests due to the pine beetle outbreak.
Plain and simple they want to maximize dollars on logging, and if it causes cancer to those who choose to live up North, so sad too bad. I find this type of callous and illogical thinking disgusting.

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by britman101

Another royal screw up by government officials. They really don't care about the ecosystem but instead spray a known carcinogen on great tracts of forests to weed out the aspen trees. Man knows better than Mother Nature in how to grow a better forest. Like hell!! Is it any wonder that moose numbers along with other ungulate numbers have plummetted. What happens when this stuff gets into salmon bearing streams as this stuff cannot be good for salmon fry. The only reason they are doing this is to try and maximize returns from pine forests due to the pine beetle outbreak.
Plain and simple they want to maximize dollars on logging, and if it causes cancer to those who choose to live up North, so sad too bad. I find this type of callous and illogical thinking disgusting.

Agreed. You sound quite educated in the matter. I have a BSc Ecology (which I don't work in that field anymore, but still have that education). Did some ungulate and bear studies for the government. So many hypocites, shutting down pipelines, but they are okay doing stuff like this, or dumping millions of gallons of raw sewage into public waterways. Makes me sick with what our country has become....

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Agreed. You sound quite educated in the matter. I have a BSc Ecology (which I don't work in that field anymore, but still have that education). Did some ungulate and bear studies for the government. So many hypocites, shutting down pipelines, but they are okay doing stuff like this, or dumping millions of gallons of raw sewage into public waterways. Makes me sick with what our country has become....

Exactly

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by britman101

Another royal screw up by government officials. They really don't care about the ecosystem but instead spray a known carcinogen on great tracts of forests to weed out the aspen trees. Man knows better than Mother Nature in how to grow a better forest. Like hell!! Is it any wonder that moose numbers along with other ungulate numbers have plummetted. What happens when this stuff gets into salmon bearing streams as this stuff cannot be good for salmon fry. The only reason they are doing this is to try and maximize returns from pine forests due to the pine beetle outbreak.
Plain and simple they want to maximize dollars on logging, and if it causes cancer to those who choose to live up North, so sad too bad. I find this type of callous and illogical thinking disgusting.

B ut don't allow a pipeline cause it "may" leak....BC is

[NaturalBornKilla]

Yet out east where I grew up never seeing a moose, we are over run with the bastards. Welcome to the new world.

[bearbuster]

This is absolutely insane. I believe I have seen this here as well. Helicopters spraying cutblocks pre marked with white plastics bags?

[NaturalBornKilla]

Does anyone know the tolerance levels for glyphosate in your bread? It’ll shock you

[fishtank]

Mother Nature has a way to corrected ....

[JohninAB]

......

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by bearbuster

This is absolutely insane. I believe I have seen this here as well. Helicopters spraying cutblocks pre marked with white plastics bags?

Yup... did this on my trap line by helicopter after I requested it be done by atv/hand. What a mess and the glyphosate is killing more than the Rees they are spraying. Total BS

[Red Bullets]

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw

Seems this saying would apply to this situation.

[ReconWilly]

What a freak show.

[CaberTosser]

Is it just me or do I not tend to see nearly as much in the way of forest fires in Ontario and Quebec where they have a lot more deciduous trees growing? Those lumber products are valuable as well, would it not be nice to plant some oak and maple, etc in BC? I know those species take longer to mature than fast growing conifers, so perhaps its less attractive as a crop, though on the other hand they do fetch much more per bd/ft. Of course many people would decry introducing non-native species to the area, I would argue that trees are far more natural than the program they're currently undertaking is.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Is it just me or do I not tend to see nearly as much in the way of forest fires in Ontario and Quebec where they have a lot more deciduous trees growing? Those lumber products are valuable as well, would it not be nice to plant some oak and maple, etc in BC? I know those species take longer to mature than fast growing conifers, so perhaps its less attractive as a crop, though on the other hand they do fetch much more per bd/ft. Of course many people would decry introducing non-native species to the area, I would argue that trees are far more natural than the program they're currently undertaking is.

That would take some forward thinking......All along the coast and huge areas of the interior hardwoods do fantastic where they have been planted. Right by my place there is a 10 acre plantation set up with black walnut and many old lots are covered in english walnuts and various oak species. The wood is unbelievably expensive but like most things, forestry seems to prefer large volume instead of increased value.

[bartman]

So B.C. tree planters are playing around in the Round Up everyday, interesting. I wonder how government/industry will deal with possible future health claims as looking at videos on line I don't see tree planters wearing chemical suits.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That would take some forward thinking......All along the coast and huge areas of the interior hardwoods do fantastic where they have been planted. Right by my place there is a 10 acre plantation set up with black walnut and many old lots are covered in english walnuts and various oak species. The wood is unbelievably expensive but like most things, forestry seems to prefer large volume instead of increased value.

If we changed the forest to produce high value hardwood and mass produced it the bottom would fall out of those markets. If we grew less softwood our plywood and stud price would increase accordingly.

We should grow a mix of what grew naturally in those areas in natural proportions. Mono cultures are not good for biodiversity of woodlands or wildlife. In other words let the logged blocks grow back naturally without killing off one species in favor of another, the land will dictate which species first grows naturally and allow eventual natural succession of other species as time goes by while the forest evolves. Sure this is not conducive to a 30-40-60 year rotation and harvest strategy policy, nor will it produce high volume lumber that a few monopolistic companies and gov't desire. I'd like us to go back to the days of lots of small volume loggers employing lots of people and small mills doing selective logging and producing value added lumber products as opposed to huge logging contractors and huge mills. Unfortunately that is not the way of the world, we want cheap lumber fast and lots off it to satisfy the demand we have. The world has changed from small logging outfits and small mills just as it has with thousands of small farmers gobbled up by a few huge corporate specialized farms or small fishermen and small fish processing plants gobbled up by a few corporate giants. Those small outfits produced many jobs with less consumption of resources. Its not likely to change anytime soon. Our insatiable greed for fast cheap products dictates a resource extraction policy fitted to supply the demand combined with a corporate mentality of producing the most product for the least cost has put us in the situation we are in now. We may not like it but when we point fingers and blame gov't and the corporations we must also point fingers at we consumers, do we really need that big house and 3 car garage, gazebo and deck or do we just want it.

[Scott h]

Interesting article showing that they are acknowledging that their spraying regime is hurting numbers moose in this province. Another article states that they have been doing it since 1980. That's a ton of land they've screwed up over the years. No wonder the moose numbers are down by 70% in the PG region.
https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.co...de-glyphosate/

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bartman

So B.C. tree planters are playing around in the Round Up everyday, interesting. I wonder how government/industry will deal with possible future health claims as looking at videos on line I don't see tree planters wearing chemical suits.

It's not just BC. Unfortunately Alberta does the same thing.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by bartman

So B.C. tree planters are playing around in the Round Up everyday, interesting. I wonder how government/industry will deal with possible future health claims as looking at videos on line I don't see tree planters wearing chemical suits.

By the time the tree planters come in, it will be long gone. What do you think all the agricultural land is sprayed with every single year? Often more than once. One of the safer herbicides used actually. 2-4D's and such concern me more. So no, they aren't playing around in it and needing chemical suits. I spray it on my driveway numerous times a year

[Big Grey Wolf]

A study in BC found moose were eating aspen and willow shrubs after spraying the carcinogen Round-up. They get a severe dose in their system and were actually becoming thin and eventually die off. The technical paper was presented at last trappers annual meeting in Westlock. What a terrible world we are leaving for our grandchildren just to get a cheap 2x4.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by britman101

Another royal screw up by government officials. They really don't care about the ecosystem but instead spray a known carcinogen on great tracts of forests to weed out the aspen trees. Man knows better than Mother Nature in how to grow a better forest. Like hell!! Is it any wonder that moose numbers along with other ungulate numbers have plummetted. What happens when this stuff gets into salmon bearing streams as this stuff cannot be good for salmon fry. The only reason they are doing this is to try and maximize returns from pine forests due to the pine beetle outbreak.
Plain and simple they want to maximize dollars on logging, and if it causes cancer to those who choose to live up North, so sad too bad. I find this type of callous and illogical thinking disgusting.

How does this explain the ungulate population crashes in the Ya Ha Tinda, Blackstone, Wapiabi, White Goat, Siffleur, Banff, Jasper, Willmore, etc?

I agree with you that turning our forests into tree farms is a bad idea.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by NCC

How does this explain the ungulate population crashes in the Ya Ha Tinda, Blackstone, Wapiabi, White Goat, Siffleur, Banff, Jasper, Willmore, etc?

I agree with you that turning our forests into tree farms is a bad idea.

Wolves

[Bigrib]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

By the time the tree planters come in, it will be long gone.

No it isn't , glyphosate persists in the environment and is a known carcinogen according to the USA EPA