HAMAS Attack on Israel

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

God's commandment, Samuel1-15, so much for merciful.


Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Grizz

Hey you bloodthirsty warrior! Leave the livestock along! They havnt done anything bad to you, did they?

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by glen moa

Poor time to dress up.
https://youtu.be/xz0wowJhPxA?si=OObCO7O9KQhKodJV

he has no clue , reality totally escapes him. cant wait til it does

[Sundancefisher]

Why hasn’t Gaza Canadian dual citizens left the war torn area?

Apparently Hamas has to approve anyone leaving.

Anyone else figure countries are being asked to pay to allow people to leave via Egypt? Hamas has a border check station just before the Egyptian border.

Israel and Egypt also have to approve the names of people entering and traveling through Egypt.

People have been told by the Canadian embassy to leave Lebanon also but news said few are.

It almost seems like if people go to war torn areas and then can just wait for a free flight home courtesy of the Canadian government.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by glen moa

Poor time to dress up.
https://youtu.be/xz0wowJhPxA?si=OObCO7O9KQhKodJV

I think people would have liked the costume way better if the person on the right wore it.
Would put a smile on my face, anyway.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Why hasn’t Gaza Canadian dual citizens left the war torn area?

Apparently Hamas has to approve anyone leaving.

Anyone else figure countries are being asked to pay to allow people to leave via Egypt? Hamas has a border check station just before the Egyptian border.

Israel and Egypt also have to approve the names of people entering and traveling through Egypt.

People have been told by the Canadian embassy to leave Lebanon also but news said few are.

It almost seems like if people go to war torn areas and then can just wait for a free flight home courtesy of the Canadian government.

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by KGB

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

Canada should have a list of countries that if Canadians go to live, visit, or do business with that they forfeit any help from Canada should things turn sour.

Only gov't sanctioned visits i.e, military etc., should be given aid to extract from those crap holes.

If you go there to buy/sell drugs, magic carpets, buy a camel, whatever, visit family, etc., you are on your own.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by KGB

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

Egypt says any Palestinians ending up there in the pending border opening will only be allowed to stay for 3 days, they sure don't want them. We'll probably send a ship, again.

Grizz

[Okotok]

I like this Israeli woman's perspective. Sorry if you don't have an "X" account.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717159421179052271

[sns2]

Originally Posted by okotok

i like this israeli woman's perspective. Sorry if you don't have an "x" account.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717159421179052271

100%

[Pioneer2]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Canada should have a list of countries that if Canadians go to live, visit, or do business with that they forfeit any help from Canada should things turn sour.

Only gov't sanctioned visits i.e, military etc., should be given aid to extract from those crap holes.

If you go there to buy/sell drugs, magic carpets, buy a camel, whatever, visit family, etc., you are on your own.

Wife who was on welfare in Montreal but flew home to visit her despot millionaire husband several times a year.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by KGB

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

Begs the questions for sure

If Gaza was hell on earth? Why stay there?

If Canada is your home why did you leave?

Is the purpose of dual citizenship to give your kids a better life then why aren’t you living here?

If you come to Canada can you leave the hatred and politics of Gaza behind?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by KGB

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

Easy fix.... no dual citizenship. You get one passport, and one only. It's nothing new as there are many counties that follow that system, and it totally removes the issues of a "passport of convenience".

[AI 6.5]

Originally Posted by KGB

Government says there are 450 Canadians in Gaza…I have one question- what a hell are they doing there in a first place? Why? Why did they left Gaza to get a citizenship in Canada and went back there to live? Same crap is in Lebanon…

Canadians of convenience.

[kingrat]

Well how you gonna kill Jews if you live in canada? To me these are not canadians, leave them where they were living.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Easy fix.... no dual citizenship. You get one passport, and one only. It's nothing new as there are many counties that follow that system, and it totally removes the issues of a "passport of convenience".

While I don’t necessarily disagree, are there many countries in the developed world that restrict their citizens to one citizenship only?


John Mearsheimer‘s take on Israel-Gaza situation and then some talk on Russia Ukraine war, as well China. It really hsrd to argue with that guy’s logic.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVj-w...themeRefresh=1

[Pioneer2]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...8441a277&ei=39

[Grizzly Adams1]

At this stage of the game it's becoming obvious Israel better finish the job or they'll never have security in the future. Failure is not an option.

Grizz

[skiwili]

By dropping a nuclear bomb? Wow.


https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east...ption-15694716

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

At this stage of the game it's becoming obvious Israel better finish the job or they'll never have security in the future. Failure is not an option.

Grizz

If they stop now, nothing will change, all of the loss of life will have been for nothing.

[Sundancefisher]

Hamas was interviewed and said these key points.

They as governing entity are not responsible for Gazans safety and well being. UN is responsible.

They used money to build tunnels to fight in and not to shelter civilians

They will attack Israel over and over again in the same horrific ways as often as they can

They believe civilians are martyrs and civilians dying are just the cost of irradiating Israel.

So…

Question to all these people protesting in Canada. What will stopping this war change? How do they propose removing Hamas? How do they propose returning all hostages? How do they propose Israel protect itself from terrorists that sole goal is to irradiate Israel and not just to have a separate homeland?

[fishnguy]

I’ll take a wild guess and say that none of those people are here to answer the questions.


I think at this point though everyone and their dog should understand that there is gotta be way better discrimination between civilians and combatants, regardless of how hard it is to differentiate. Even John Kirby of the White House said today that they are recognizing that “many, many thousands of civilians were killed and even more were injured in this conflict” and that they will keep pressing Israel to do better. In a few weeks, there will be more civilians dead and injured than there are in Ukraine where the Russians have been “indiscriminately targeting civilians” for almost two years now.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

I’ll take a wild guess and say that none of those people are here to answer the questions.


I think at this point though everyone and their dog should understand that there is gotta be way better discrimination between civilians and combatants, regardless of how hard it is to differentiate. Even John Kirby of the White House said today that they are recognizing that “many, many thousands of civilians were killed and even more were injured in this conflict” and that they will keep pressing Israel to do better. In a few weeks, there will be more civilians dead and injured than there are in Ukraine where the Russians have been “indiscriminately targeting civilians” for almost two years now.

Hamas runs Gaza as it's private fiefdom, they are the government. Their strategy is integration with civil society, mosques, hospitals and schools double as military facilities. They've resisted any attempts by civilians to evacuate and one of the problems with the evacuation of foreign passport holders to Egypt is Hamas insistence that their "wounded" members be evacuated as well. Both Egypt and Israel nixed that. Maximizing civilian casualties is in Hamas interest and since they run the health service along with everything else, the figures given are highly suspect. It's urban warfare with no way around victimizing civilians and Israel is fighting for it's existence. There's a lot of naivety about warfare out there, where is the outrage that Hamas shows a total lack of morality, by hiding behind women and children ? That's a war crime in itself.

Grizz

[EZM]

I find most of the activists, and particularly young women, screaming for Palestinian freedom so utterly ridiculous .... and just don't understand the real issues here ... particularly as a young "educated" woman who enjoys life here in Canada ....

Screaming so they are not permitted to be in public without being covered up, yet on TV, waving a Palestinian flag, they look like they are ready to go out to the club with make up and party clothes. I wonder how that would go over on the GAZA strip????

Screaming at a university rally, as concerned students, where in many countries, they would not be permitted to have an education.

Screaming as they drive their cars down the street waving a flag ..... when they would not be permitted to drive cars in many countries.

Screaming ...... and demonstrating ..... or having a free opinion is not permitted in many of those countries.

The utter ridiculous society we have become, as we virtue signal, and take up the cause, without understanding the issues you are fighting for.

Just ridiculous. We are doomed.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Hamas runs Gaza as it's private fiefdom, they are the government. Their strategy is integration with civil society, mosques, hospitals and schools double as military facilities. They've resisted any attempts by civilians to evacuate and one of the problems with the evacuation of foreign passport holders to Egypt is Hamas insistence that their "wounded" members be evacuated as well. Both Egypt and Israel nixed that. Maximizing civilian casualties is in Hamas interest and since they run the health service along with everything else, the figures given are highly suspect. It's urban warfare with no way around victimizing civilians and Israel is fighting for it's existence. There's a lot of naivety about warfare out there, where is the outrage that Hamas shows a total lack of morality, by hiding behind women and children ? That's a war crime in itself.

Grizz

No doubt and all understandable, Grizz. The fact remains though. Slaughtering civvies by thousands in just a couple of weeks is no bueno though, regardless of who those civvies are and who is performing the slaughter. So far this is unravelling as I expected, unfortunately. I also said I didn’t know what the solution is and I still don’t. I do know, however, which I think I also already said, this is just a breeding machine for many more radicals who are more radicalized, be it Hamas or a group of the same imbeciles with another name a decade or two down the road.

This is bound to continue regardless how you look at it. Israel will never go for one state because they will never give these people equal rights, given they settle down to begin with and, supposedly, accept such a possibility. They’ll outnumber the Jews in no time, if not right away (no idea how many of Palestinians are there in the two regions). So that’s not even a possibility to begin with.

Israel will never allow for a two state solution either because they will never give the Palestinians their full freedom in a full sense of the word. For example, they’ll never let them control the territorial waters. Neither they will let them control their own territory to the extent that they use it and let anyone else use it as they see fit.

I also do not believe that they are fighting for their survival here: Hamas is not s threat to Israeli statehood. It is to their citizens, but definitely not a statehood, not even close. Independent Palestine certainly would have that potential though, which is why they will never let it happen (clearly, it would be foolish of them to allow that). It certainly nice to lay it that way though, fighting for survival.

So what to do? Who the hell knows!

[KGB]

Here is some videos of the attack…
https://youtu.be/qN6GUrPKvi4?si=f8NHNzY6uncCKFW2
And this video is pretty clear explains the stupidity of the most supporters…
https://youtu.be/rbfccVBo9tE?si=YuLoGfVn5ph3viEd

[KGB]

The huge meeting in support of Hamas in Washington at the White House was absolutely mind boggling. They reported tens of thousands of people, aggressive, throwing paint on the walls and climbing the White House fences….Unreal! Nobody got arrested or shot… If Trump supporters were doing that- I can guarantee blood on the street… This is pure evil. And stupidity.
Jews are scared and not only in Europe and USA but also here, even in Alberta. Kids getting harassed at schools and universities. Our Jewish friends with kids in school are really worried about their safety. They removed their necklaces with the stars of David. They hide their Jewish identity. They are seriously scared! The current levels of antisemitism is simply astonishing. Crap like this happened in Germany in the 30s last century and we all know how it ended. History always repeats itself…
The scariest part is that the government does absolutely nothing to stop it.

[fishnguy]

^ It’s going to get worse, of course, as this continues.

Originally Posted by KGB

Here is some videos of the attack…
https://youtu.be/qN6GUrPKvi4?si=f8NHNzY6uncCKFW2
And this video is pretty clear explains the stupidity of the most supporters…
https://youtu.be/rbfccVBo9tE?si=YuLoGfVn5ph3viEd

To be fair, there are probably multiple videos on the web from Gaza now that will tramp the first one, no? I am not watching any (from either side, actually; even told the wife to stop sending me things), but gotta be. At least I would think so.

As for the second, there is very little doubt it will backfire big time. Or already did. For obvious reasons.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ It’s going to get worse, of course, as this continues.


To be fair, there are probably multiple videos on the web from Gaza now that will tramp the first one, no? I am not watching any (from either side, actually; even told the wife to stop sending me things), but gotta be. At least I would think so.

As for the second, there is very little doubt it will backfire big time. Or already did. For obvious reasons.

Nope.

Huge difference missed.

Hamas gleefully murdering kids and elderly and women and innocent people all around who had no warning as to what was happening. These videos are a league of their own. This was breakfast and family time. There was no warning.

Some staged videos or even actual videos of people who stay in areas IDF said to leave, who are on top of Hamas military structures, who are around military assets and fighters, who are caught up in a surgical military strike and whom Hamas said they want to sacrifice… it’s a totally difference video. This is a war zone with prior warning to civilians to leave.

While both are sad for non combatants. You can’t remotely say Hamas videos are in the same category.

[fishnguy]

^ I said before I won’t respond to you anymore (in another thread), but I will make an exception.

When they say that Gaza population is nearly 50% (42%? 47%? Whatever it is, I posted the stat before in this thread) children, what do you think it means when they talk about civilian casualties in Gaza? Trust me, I am not missing any huge difference. Neither am I watching Hamas videos, like I said. When Kirby said today that there are many thousands of civilians that have been killed and more injured (though they cannot confirm the numbers provided by Palestinians, duh). Guess what that means: yes, that means that thousands of those killed were children. This math is not hard at all. I understand they aren’t white enough and live in the wrong place of the world for some to care, but the fact remains.

I posted way in the beginning of this thread that Hamas massacred civilians, while it would be hard for Israel avoid collateral damage. That was a response to Grizz when he said that neither side cares for collateral damage. This is the post: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ed#post4666541

Now, when we are 3 or whatever weeks into it, can you provide a number of Hamas combatants that have been killed by the Israeli strikes that killed thousands of civilians, including thousands of children? This would now be the stat provided by the White House during today’s briefing (note, they likely have no clue how many people were actually killed, but are pressured by the world to make (weird) statements), not Health Authorities of Gaza that are controlled by Hamas. I do not believe any such stat has been (or will be) released and I also do not believe they killed anywhere near the number of Hamas combatants to consider these civilians to be collateral damage (they will never be able to justify the means if they release the actual number, which I am sure they do not have either). So Grizz was right, but I felt like the correction was obligatory at the time and was only fair to amplify what Hamas has done. Sure, they took out some civilian infrastructure that was also used by Hamas, as well as some infrastructure that only served military purposes (perhaps), but does that qualify to justify for thousands of civilian casualties? The answer here is pretty clear and that is why some in the world are outraged.

That is also why the US is in a big pickle here. They are basically preaching the opposite of what they are preaching in regards to the Russia-Ukraine war (where they play along with the fiddle of “indiscriminate” killings of civilians). Yet, the civilian casualties are likely mounting up here faster than the number of soldiers and civilians killed in Ukraine on both sides during the same, if not much longer, period of time. However, what do they do? That is right, they ask for explanation of strikes on refugee camps, while sending $320 million worth of precision bombs to continue such strikes. This is nothing new though, just usually it doesn’t happen at the same time.

You also do not see in the news that Israel has been completely isolated by the world after the UN vote on Gaza resolution, the vote almost identical to the resolution on Ukraine. All I see now is that these resolutions do not matter because they aren’t binding. This is not to say that Israel (or Hamas, but they aren’t a country or a government of a country) ever cared about the Security Council resolutions that are binding by international law. And so on.

So, what is going to happen now is Israel is likely to continue because they think they do not have a choice and are doing the right thing (this may be true, but not necessarily), mostly vengeance and “serving a lesson” though, while being increasingly opposed by the rest of the world (hated by some, also increasingly), while antisemitism will exponentially grow worldwide, and Palestinian civvies will get killed in tens of thousands. Many/most/all Arab nations will cut ties with Israel and have huge grudges with the US (throwing the world a couple/few decades back as far as international relations and peace in the middle east are concerned). China and Iran are winning big time. Russia is benefiting via loss of interest and available military assistance and overall weakening support for Ukraine (which was already happening, but this accelerates it significantly). The world is looking down at the US as hypocrites, further reducing support for Ukraine, especially among those countries that were “sitting on the fence” to begin with. And so on.

I think I said here before, Hamas (or more generally radicals) are winning this thing regardless of what happens; even if Hamas disappears as a result of this war, which is highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I guess it’s another day on planet Earth, lol. What are ya gonna do though.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ I said before I won’t respond to you anymore (in another thread), but I will make an exception.

When they say that Gaza population is nearly 50% (42%? 47%? Whatever it is, I posted the stat before in this thread) children, what do you think it means when they talk about civilian casualties in Gaza? Trust me, I am not missing any huge difference. Neither am I watching Hamas videos, like I said. When Kirby said today that there are many thousands of civilians that have been killed and more injured (though they cannot confirm the numbers provided by Palestinians, duh). Guess what that means: yes, that means that thousands of those killed were children. This math is not hard at all. I understand they aren’t white enough and live in the wrong place of the world for some to care, but the fact remains.

I posted way in the beginning of this thread that Hamas massacred civilians, while it would be hard for Israel avoid collateral damage. That was a response to Grizz when he said that neither side cares for collateral damage. This is the post: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ed#post4666541

Now, when we are 3 or whatever weeks into it, can you provide a number of Hamas combatants that have been killed by the Israeli strikes that killed thousands of civilians, including thousands of children? This would now be the stat provided by the White House during today’s briefing (note, they likely have no clue how many people were actually killed, but are pressured by the world to make (weird) statements), not Health Authorities of Gaza that are controlled by Hamas. I do not believe any such stat has been (or will be) released and I also do not believe they killed anywhere near the number of Hamas combatants to consider these civilians to be collateral damage (they will never be able to justify the means if they release the actual number, which I am sure they do not have either). So Grizz was right, but I felt like the correction was obligatory at the time and was only fair to amplify what Hamas has done. Sure, they took out some civilian infrastructure that was also used by Hamas, as well as some infrastructure that only served military purposes (perhaps), but does that qualify to justify for thousands of civilian casualties? The answer here is pretty clear and that is why some in the world are outraged.

That is also why the US is in a big pickle here. They are basically preaching the opposite of what they are preaching in regards to the Russia-Ukraine war (where they play along with the fiddle of “indiscriminate” killings of civilians). Yet, the civilian casualties are likely mounting up here faster than the number of soldiers and civilians killed in Ukraine on both sides during the same, if not much longer, period of time. However, what do they do? That is right, they ask for explanation of strikes on refugee camps, while sending $320 million worth of precision bombs to continue such strikes. This is nothing new though, just usually it doesn’t happen at the same time.

You also do not see in the news that Israel has been completely isolated by the world after the UN vote on Gaza resolution, the vote almost identical to the resolution on Ukraine. All I see now is that these resolutions do not matter because they aren’t binding. This is not to say that Israel (or Hamas, but they aren’t a country or a government of a country) ever cared about the Security Council resolutions that are binding by international law. And so on.

So, what is going to happen now is Israel is likely to continue because they think they do not have a choice and are doing the right thing (this may be true, but not necessarily), mostly vengeance and “serving a lesson” though, while being increasingly opposed by the rest of the world (hated by some, also increasingly), while antisemitism will exponentially grow worldwide, and Palestinian civvies will get killed in tens of thousands. Many/most/all Arab nations will cut ties with Israel and have huge grudges with the US (throwing the world a couple/few decades back as far as international relations and peace in the middle east are concerned). China and Iran are winning big time. Russia is benefiting via loss of interest and available military assistance and overall weakening support for Ukraine (which was already happening, but this accelerates it significantly). The world is looking down at the US as hypocrites, further reducing support for Ukraine, especially among those countries that were “sitting on the fence” to begin with. And so on.

I think I said here before, Hamas (or more generally radicals) are winning this thing regardless of what happens; even if Hamas disappears as a result of this war, which is highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I guess it’s another day on planet Earth, lol. What are ya gonna do though.

Problem is with civilian casualties in Garza vs Ukraine in Gaza Hamas is placing civilians and children in close proximity or even in front of them so that any attempt on their lives will include “collateral damage” which makes the odd look bad. In Ukraine most civilians are away from the front lines and a lot of military assets so any civilian deaths are generally more intentional to be exactly that. Not sure this will play out as Israel is intending publicly though, wiping out Hamas will likely be as successful as our own attempt at wiping out the taliban in Afghanistan, hard to differentiate between Hamas and civilian Palestinian in many cases. I suspect they’ll remove much of the leadership and current foot soldiers but the moment they pull out new radicals will pop up from the former civilian population and it’ll be back to square 1. To be honest I don’t see peace over there happening in my lifetime and beyond, it is systemic and generational.