Buying a new vehicle, advice needed

[Atex]

It has been a while since I last visited a stealership... I am looking to surprise my wife with a new car as she's driving an old beater, not worth to fix it any longer. Did some research online, narrowed down a few models I'd like to look at, and also used the online "build you own" tool and got presented some prices as well.

My question is, knowing the prices you get online, what is is the right amount to offer ? How much are they able to lower the price ? I'll most likely write a check, unless my accountant has better ideas for tax purposes, like finance.
Thanks in advance

[Walleye Willy]

I, for one, would not buy my wife a new vehicle without her input. If there is something she does not like, I`ll never hear the end of it.

[badger]

Knowledge is best, go to Unhaggle or Car Cost Canada to find dealer invoice pricing and available incentives. Some brands and models are minimal dealer markup, others are over 25% of MSRP.

[Savage Bacon]

We bought a new car about a year ago. I emailed every dealership around. It did take some time but we narrowed it down to an Edmonton dealership. I must have emailed back and forth with their salesman 100 times by the time we purchased. No other dealership compared to the purchase price. I got preferred pricing from my work, plus they wrote me a cheque.


Bought a new truck a couple years before that and settled for a dealership on Vancouver Island. About a month later my dad bought an almost identical truck from the same dealership. The dealership paid the plane tickets.

Buy towards the end of the month. And don't be scared to shop around.

[pinelakeperch]

What are you looking at buying? Different manufacturers have different margins. I’ve done a fair number of deals on new cars. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[Makumiya]

I’m a manager for a large dealer group in Calgary. I might be able to help. I like to make transactions very simple and straight forward. DM if you would like my help

[skidderman]

Whatever you do don't tell them you are paying cash until the final numbers are agreed on. Dealerships make a lot on financing. At one time cash talked. Not any more. I was looking for a new truck a year ago. My goal was to get 20% off of msrp. Couldn't do it so I bought used. I can't be bothered to play their games. On an $80,000 truck I was told if I didn't make a deal that day I would lose a $1000 discount. Whoopee. $1000 on an $80 grande truck. He never saw me again. Good luck.

[Jerry D]

I think, dealerships may get incentives from the bank if they can sell a vehicle with bank financing at 5.99 or 6.99%?

Personally, I would look on kijiji or autotrader for a new/slightly used and gonto a dealership and get a price to start as a baseline.

I got into a 4wd hemi 2019 crew cab ram classic. Not sure the trim but has auto start and spray in bedliner with 6 seats. Got them to throw in a factory brake controller. Has a little more stuff I think.

Paid 31,500 plus license and tax and it has 3500km on it. I dont feel I got taken and dont regret the purchase.

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[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

I think, dealerships may get incentives from the bank if they can sell a vehicle with bank financing at 5.99 or 6.99%?

Personally, I would look on kijiji or autotrader for a new/slightly used and gonto a dealership and get a price to start as a baseline.

I got into a 4wd hemi 2019 crew cab ram classic. Not sure the trim but has auto start and spray in bedliner with 6 seats. Got them to throw in a factory brake controller. Has a little more stuff I think.

Paid 31,500 plus license and tax and it has 3500km on it. I dont feel I got taken and dont regret the purchase.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

....there are good used vehicles that people need to get out of....or an elderly person wants to sell....this route is best...all the bells and whistles, warranty etc and not the rip off awaiting you but it's your cash....oh and ensure the ride you choose is what she would enjoy....work at that part or your in the doghouse.....

Imagine going to a dealership....getting sucked in and then bringing home something not right....wow.....oh well self isolation is a thing now

[graybeard]

I commend you for your kind gesture for your wife, but I agree that she should have some input.

I for one will never buy a new vehicle period. The $$% loss right off the top is a big hit unless you keep the vehicle until it dies.

New to me is is a different one in my garage. I would look at one in the 1-2 year old vintage. That way, anything that needs addressing is done and saves you the repeat returns to the dealership.

If your set on one, there are some helpful hints in this thread.

IF I WAS TO BUY; I would get every extended warranty feature available included, the oil changes as they add up. As well the dealership sees it regularly and any problems are addressed.

Any chance to buy wholesale versus retail, I am all ears.

The time to buy isn't when you need one so start looking now.

Good luck,

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Whatever you do don't tell them you are paying cash until the final numbers are agreed on. Dealerships make a lot on financing. At one time cash talked. Not any more. I was looking for a new truck a year ago. My goal was to get 20% off of msrp. Couldn't do it so I bought used. I can't be bothered to play their games. On an $80,000 truck I was told if I didn't make a deal that day I would lose a $1000 discount. Whoopee. $1000 on an $80 grande truck. He never saw me again. Good luck.

Lots of 0% offers out there. Dealerships are looking to move inventory.

Originally Posted by graybeard

I commend you for your kind gesture for your wife, but I agree that she should have some input.

I for one will never buy a new vehicle period. The $$% loss right off the top is a big hit unless you keep the vehicle until it dies.

New to me is is a different one in my garage. I would look at one in the 1-2 year old vintage. That way, anything that needs addressing is done and saves you the repeat returns to the dealership.

If your set on one, there are some helpful hints in this thread.

IF I WAS TO BUY; I would get every extended warranty feature available included, the oil changes as they add up. As well the dealership sees it regularly and any problems are addressed.

Any chance to buy wholesale versus retail, I am all ears.

The time to buy isn't when you need one so start looking now.

Good luck,

There are absolutely situations where buying new makes more sense. That's a fact. Can't argue that there are many situations where buying used makes more sense. Entirely dependent on the situation (discounts on vehicle, finance rate, etc.).

I can't agree with purchasing "every extended warranty feature available". You're a sucker if you're buying every add on available.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Lots of 0% offers out there. Dealerships are looking to move inventory.

I have always believed that 0% financing simply means the cost to borrow the money is built into the sale price of the vehicle.

[Stinky Coyote]

don't forget to watch some youtubes of lists of the top 10 things to not pay for when closing the deal...

a lot of those 'extra' fees are total bull, like nitrogen filled tires, air is 80% nitrogen anyway, and most of those machines in the shop just take up space and are covered in piles of junk, skip the warranties, skip the under coating and protection packages, all of that is horse crap and not worth it

a few you must like the vehicle, the pdi destination charge, and the accounting charge (like 4-700)...otherwise say no to all the extra crap, do a little research here and watch a few vids

[Guy1000]

If you do go to the dealership be really careful and read the fine print. The 0% financing on a lot of vehicles actually comes with a separate fee. It was a $5000 fee for 0% financing on a Chevy pickup.


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[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

I have always believed that 0% financing simply means the cost to borrow the money is built into the sale price of the vehicle.

Find the invoice pricing. The industry average profit on a new vehicle is ~$1,200.00 (though this obviously varies greatly between marques). If you pay $1,200.00 over invoice on a current year model new car with 0% financing, you did alright.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

don't forget to watch some youtubes of lists of the top 10 things to not pay for when closing the deal...

a lot of those 'extra' fees are total bull, like nitrogen filled tires, air is 80% nitrogen anyway, and most of those machines in the shop just take up space and are covered in piles of junk, skip the warranties, skip the under coating and protection packages, all of that is horse crap and not worth it

a few you must like the vehicle, the pdi destination charge, and the accounting charge (like 4-700)...otherwise say no to all the extra crap, do a little research here and watch a few vids

There's nothing forcing you to pay a "documentation fee". Documentation fees are pure profit. Treat it as part of the MSRP.

Originally Posted by Guy1000

If you do go to the dealership be really careful and read the fine print. The 0% financing on a lot of vehicles actually comes with a separate fee. It was a $5000 fee for 0% financing on a Chevy pickup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While this can happen, it's fairly uncommon and extremely shady. It's always prudent to read everything, ask questions, and get offers and answers in writing.

[JBE]

At this time of year when the new models are coming out 25% off msrp for a 2020.

[Cement Bench]

Alberta has got all in pricing (might be part of legislation, not sure)

get all in pricing and then haggle from there

Cement Bench

[EZM]

As mentioned above …………. different manufacturers offer and support different margin incentives and procing programs.

I have purchased GMC, Ford and other brands and have been able to get $8000-$16,000 dollars BELOW MSRP depending on model year, time of year and time of month not to mention inventory that dealer is sitting on with cash toed up in last year's inventory.

Try that with Toyota or BMW ……….. not a chance ………. if you get a even $2000 off a Toyota you have likely done very well for yourself.

Lots of variables

But …………. ALWAYS …………. you MUST define ALL of the "extra costs" PRIOR to obtaining an offer … like dealership fees, paperwork, freight, dealer prep and all the "last minute surprises:.

Get all that out of the way first and have it clearly defined the minute you sit down with the sales rep and BEFORE even discussing the price of the vehicle.

Also define if you are negotiating GST in or out and if those apply to each of the extra fees as outlined above.

If you don't do this, they just claw back and add all these fees to get you right back up to a higher sell price.

[350 mag]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Find the invoice pricing. The industry average profit on a new vehicle is ~$1,200.00 (though this obviously varies greatly between marques). If you pay $1,200.00 over invoice on a current year model new car with 0% financing, you did alright.



There's nothing forcing you to pay a "documentation fee". Documentation fees are pure profit. Treat it as part of the MSRP.



While this can happen, it's fairly uncommon and extremely shady. It's always prudent to read everything, ask questions, and get offers and answers in writing.

I used to think this as well.

BUT in the "digital" age there are more boxes to check to make sure your personal information is protected...

It's perfectly reasonable to pay $250 in doc fees.

Anything over $300 and yes your being ripped off.

Most dealers will waive fees if it means the difference between making the sale or not.

As far as financing I went for factory financing of 3.99% which dropped the price substantially.

I then arranged my own financing for 2.49%>

I also traded in to save tax.

You have to "crunch" all the numbers.

If your dealing with the "BIG 3 " N.A auto makers....you can expect the markup to be anywhere from 5% on 20,000 vehicle to 25% or more on the top of the line trucks and SUVs.

Even if they are advertising dealer cost there is still 3% "holdback" on most new vehicles and factory to dealer rebates....

So no matter what....they make money.

I have nothing against a dealership making a few 1000 and a salesman making a grand on commission.

They need to eat too....

But if your not careful the dealership can easily make $10K and the salesman 1000s in commission...

Play multiple dealerships and salesman against each other....that usually motivates them to "deal".

Also look for dealerships where local economy is suffering whether it's general downturn, low oil, bad farming year.

When crops are poor....the rural dealers give good deals.... when it's bumper Crops they won't deal.

Same as any "industry town"....IF there is a strike someplace for the communities main employer that dealership will be forced to lower prices.

Also they say the 2 weeks before Christmas and first 2 weeks of NEW Year are best times to car shop as the dealerships are usually slow.


Good luck.

[jstubbs]

I have never worked in car sales and I hope I never do, but I do work in RV/LQ sales which at times is pretty similar, and my girlfriend works in finance at a Toyota dealer.

Nowadays, a lot of auto dealers make all their money in the business office. Industry has moved to a model where often salesmen are on flats ($500 or something for the vehicle regardless if customer pays full MSRP or haggles every last cent) rather than commission, and the whole goal is to move as many vehicles as possible and get reserve pay from financing, and then any of the extended warranty/propac/whatever upgrades. If you can hold your own against hard pressure in the business office, you can get a helluva deal on a vehicle from these volume dealers but you’re going to get grilled hard and probably waste a good part of your day, and you need to read every piece of paperwork they put in front of you.

Good example: I get some folks a great price on a new RV camper. Was about $40k for it and they were 0 down financing it. They then purchased extended warranty, paint protection, life insurance, and numbering for theft. With reserve and the rest of the add-ons, the dealer made about $7k profit just from the business office. Probably only made a few thousand on the actual sale of the RV, less after they pay me my commission.

Anyway I have no advice beyond that. I think a lot of the “tricks” people suggest like faxing 20 dealers thing what you want and what you want to pay will just get you ignored at 18 dealers and maybe replies from desperate sales guys at the remaining two who are scrambling to make a sale before the end of the month so their sales manager doesn’t can them.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by 350 mag

I used to think this as well.

BUT in the "digital" age there are more boxes to check to make sure your personal information is protected...

It's perfectly reasonable to pay $250 in doc fees.

Anything over $300 and yes your being ripped off.

Most dealers will waive fees if it means the difference between making the sale or not.

As far as financing I went for factory financing of 3.99% which dropped the price substantially.

I then arranged my own financing for 2.49%>

I also traded in to save tax.

You have to "crunch" all the numbers.

If your dealing with the "BIG 3 " N.A auto makers....you can expect the markup to be anywhere from 5% on 20,000 vehicle to 25% or more on the top of the line trucks and SUVs.

Even if they are advertising dealer cost there is still 3% "holdback" on most new vehicles and factory to dealer rebates....

So no matter what....they make money.

I have nothing against a dealership making a few 1000 and a salesman making a grand on commission.

They need to eat too....

But if your not careful the dealership can easily make $10K and the salesman 1000s in commission...

Play multiple dealerships and salesman against each other....that usually motivates them to "deal".

Also look for dealerships where local economy is suffering whether it's general downturn, low oil, bad farming year.

When crops are poor....the rural dealers give good deals.... when it's bumper Crops they won't deal.

Same as any "industry town"....IF there is a strike someplace for the communities main employer that dealership will be forced to lower prices.

Also they say the 2 weeks before Christmas and first 2 weeks of NEW Year are best times to car shop as the dealerships are usually slow.


Good luck.

Documentation fees, as I said, are pure profit. Some places have legislation that prohibit dealers from charging them.

Find the invoice pricing, and negotiate the price of the vehicle rather than the monthly payments. Simple!

[Dean2]

Have a read through this thread. You will find some useful information from my recent search for a new vehicle.


http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=373816

[Munchymoo]

Once i have decided on the vehicle and trim level I go to 4-5 dealers in the same city and talk with a salesman. I grab a card and tell them I am buying a vehicle in the next few days and tell them what I am looking for exactly. I give them a day or so to find what I am looking for. Then I start sending them the other guys offers. It typically doesn't take long to narrow those dealers down to a couple and then start negotiating hard.

I have been on the road going to sign a deal I was happy with at dealership #1 and had dealership # 2 call and sweeten their offer even more.

This process has worked for me quite well. May not be for everyone. It can be a little time consuming.

Just don't put down a deposit or sign anything until you are truly ready. Trying to get a deposit back because you are going to a different dealership is brutal. Learned that the hard way.

[Dean2]

Tried to edit my first post but went over the time limit.


The one thing I will add: buying a new car you can search inventory at local dealers on most of the Manufacturers websites. That is how I found the Jeep we ended up buying at Londonderry. I also found 3 others exactly like it at dealerships close to Edmonton. I sent them the print out by email for the vehicle they had in stock and asked them for their best and final price on the vehicle. Also said I did not want to pay any fees, really, the biggest thing of importance is the all in price including GST; however they spin that together is pretty irrelevant but at least if you say up front in your email, no fees, you can maybe knock a few hundered off when you go to finalize the deal.

Told them I was buying this week but was not prepared to go back and forth haggling. Told them I wanted their bottom line price, was already approved for financing and would look at their financing when I came in to finalize the deal. I was actually planning to pay cash but since their finance office is such a big money maker there is no upside to telling them you are paying cash.

If they try any stupid Dealer games when you go in to finalise, get up and leave. Find another dealership to work with. If they use the old high pressure, got to go see the manger multiple times and other nonsense, that is NOT a place you want to buy. Like a few others have said, NEVER put a deposit down till you are signing final papers and have seen the exact vehicle you are buying.

[Cement Bench]

when comparing vehicles ask them for a photo of the window sticker as it is easier to compare vehicle options that way

[Stinky Buffalo]

There was a very interesting article written a long time ago by a journalist who spent some time "undercover", working as a car salesman.

I couldn't find a link to the original article, but here is a followup from 2009.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

There was a very interesting article written a long time ago by a journalist who spent some time "undercover", working as a car salesman.

I couldn't find a link to the original article, but here is a followup from 2009.

IIRC- this is the link that was posted last November:
https://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

It is a 37 page .pdf file that includes the original "Confessions of a car salesman" as well as the 2009 follow up article. It is worth reading.

[350 mag]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Documentation fees, as I said, are pure profit. Some places have legislation that prohibit dealers from charging them.

Find the invoice pricing, and negotiate the price of the vehicle rather than the monthly payments. Simple!

Theres a few videos on YouTube..

Guys disclosing what fees are reasonable ...and what's a ripoff...

If $250 in doc fees is a deal breaker most will drop.

But never pay more than that.

Never get anything at dealership besides maybe extended warranty.

It's cheaper to goto aftermarket for ANY accessories...from mudflaps, to tires and rims.

The biggest $$$$$ dealerships are making right now is selling "in house" lift or levelling kits with aftermarket rims/tires.

They hose the young kids big time on those...

Seen some 85-90k trucks in Alberta with the full kit lift tires and rims as package deals ...and it's10- 15 K above MSRP for deal....and 0%>>>>lol

The same lift kit and tires at a shop is usually 4-5 grand cheaper....

One dealer I looked at wanted $1,200 to install a spacer on a factory strut....

[Roadhunter]

Right now Ford has their employee pricing which is a pretty good deal as well as 2.49% on certain vehicles. Mine was a $12k discount from MSRP plus the trade in deals are good with everything going to the US.

[Red Bullets]

Your wife will love you even more if you go spend 20K to 30K on a restored classic car. Girls like old muscle cars. And if she treats the car good it will still appreciate over time rather than depreciate as soon as you drive off the lot.