Assault weapons

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The question is wrong, neither side wants to go there, but the question is, do you want to ban or restrict semi automatic weapons. This is the heart of it. Any semi can be outfitted with a 200 round mag by a clever person.

[dannypee]

Big bear

You are correct and perhaps i have been a little hasty, However our lives are pumped full of reports from the states of the ongoing problems with gun control and awful incidents such as the school shooting incident that has just occured. In fact my childs school in Alberta today had a hoax call claiming that a shooter was planning to visit their school and spent all day being escorted from class to class then being locked in their classrooms for the duration of their lessons.

Perhaps the poll at the begining of this thread was a little to soon.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by dumoulin

When I turned 16, dad gave me the key to the car. He presumed I would be revrerant and respectful because he's my dad and he loves me. What did I do, burn doughnuts and pretended I was in the Dukes of Hazard.

I was a bit over 16. I wrapped his Chrysler around a telephone pole. I told dad a helluva story. He pretended to go along but we both knew that wasn't going to happen again. It didn't. The next time, there was no pole and, anyway, I managed to get it back on the road after a couple of 360º's . I'm certain he never found out about that one.....

I think governments know someone is bound to screw things up badly and as a preempting this deny us this right--weapon ownership (not gun ownership or firearm ownership)--minimizing or even managing the risk.

Government should not be our parent; or behave like a parent.

At that point, we become little more than obedient, industrious taxpayers.

Do I change my position on "weapon" ownership? No. Do I think it should be an unaliable right...maybe?

Find "A Nation of Cowards" by the same author. I recommend it highly.

Also, find and read "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott.

Both books are pretty small and inexpensive. I believe you will find much to think about.

It's always nice to exchange thoughts with someone who can see farther than his own feet.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

x2.....100%

Although we agree on that I don't think that we agree on the gun laws in the US.....I could be wrong though.

I have had similar experiences and that is why I think the way that I do. It was always nice coming back home to the safety of Canada and not having to carry a firearm around for fear of having to protect myself and others.

I find it interesting that all of the experienced soldiers that I have spoken to in my circles do not want to see a similar armed society in Canada as what is in the US. Yet, the people that have never had any experience with it sound like they glamorize the idea of being able to walk around freely being armed.

CCW and open carry are not the topic of this thread though so I'll try to get it back on track.

With regards to what the US defines as assault weapons (easy Randy....lol), I think that Canada has got it right. IMO, the US is too lax and the Australians have it too harsh.....Britain, forget about it. I think that Canada, now that the registry is gone, has found a moderate position when it comes to firearms possession.

I agree that since the registry is gone, things here are better. We do have a reasonable balance. I collect military rifles and pistols. I also enjoy shooting full auto, but do not have any interest doing so at any place other than a range. I do have some semi auto black rifles, and I would like to have the right to own more, such as a PPSH and I would love to own a MG34, but I accept that these are not permitted here in Canada, and I do not lose any sleep over it.

I do not have a desire to ccw or open carry, but I would like to be able to have a .22 pistol when hunting so that I do not need to pack two rifles to hunt deer and chickens. I have no interest in shooting big game with a pistol, despite the fact I probably could do it reasonably well. I would choose not to just for the same reason I do not bow hunt. I do not feel I have the patients to do it properly.

I teach my children how to respect guns. I lock my guns and ammo up. I expect them to be the same when they are out on their own, and I expect them to teach their children what I have taught them.

I find the USA has a crazy gun culture. Crazy on both sides. There are zealots who want all guns banned, and zealots who want to be able to pack full auto on the city bus. If you read any US based message board, you find many guys who still live in their momma's basement yacking about the best ccw pistol, and how best to kill zombies. These people I would not let near guns. Many would fail the mental screening tests if they tried to join our military, yet are free to buy guns with their driver's license. That I find a bit crazy, and definitely scary. These people are not the ones to lock up their guns, and most likely keep one in the spout just in case they see a zombie.

There is little doubt why there has been some of the serious gun incidents in the US. The schools do little to stop bullies, the medical system does little to help mental instability, and then many feel they have a right to join a militia to fight the government. Add to that bad divorce laws that promote single mother homes, and the problems that follow from that. Everyone knows someone who would fit in on Jerry Springer and Maurie Povich. Gangs are a serious problem, as is poverty. Neither issue does the US government do much to cure, yet are very fast to send troops across the world to dispose of the leader of other countries.

[Browning Sharpsh00ter]

As the man from the NRA said, put armed personal in schools, cause the only thing that's going to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun

[HunterDave]

Our views are pretty much identical RMW.......everything in moderation.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

There are zealots who want all guns banned, and zealots who want to be able to pack full auto on the city bus.

I have never heard of such a claim by the NRA or any other credible pro-gun organization in the U.S. Can you post a reference? I'd like to read it.

Are full auto's not strictly regulated in the U.S.?

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Browning Sharpsh00ter

As the man from the NRA said, put armed personal in schools, cause the only thing that's going to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun

Agree 100%

That's why Gun Zombies who are in trouble call "911" and ask if they could please send someone with a gun - right away! Then, they wait.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I have never heard of such a claim by the NRA or any other credible pro-gun organization in the U.S. Can you post a reference? I'd like to read it.

Are full auto's not strictly regulated in the U.S.?

I never referred to the NRA.

I will simplify what I said for you Rocky. It means there are people on both extremes of the gun debate. Some want no guns, others want no restrictions.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I will simplify what I said for you Rocky. It means there are people on both extremes of the gun debate. Some want no guns, others want no restrictions.

I don't want a machine gun. I can't see any need for a machine gun. Then again, I have no problem if some law abiding citizen wants to own one or anything for that matter as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. If I can trust you with a lever action rifle, why wouldn't I also trust you with a machine gun? Both can make me equally dead. Will having a machine gun make you go crazy and kill people? No. I believe in freedom and I don't believe in restricting the freedom of millions of people to appease people with irrational fears. Once freedoms are lost they are nearly impossible to get back. Machine guns are already illegal for citizens to own in North America so it's a non issue. Anti guns nutjobs want to ban semi autos and handguns. After that they will want to ban pump and lever actions. Next will be bolt actions. If you give them an inch they will take 800 miles.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I don't want a machine gun. I can't see any need for a machine gun. Then again, I have no problem if some law abiding citizen wants to own one or anything for that matter as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. If I can trust you with a lever action rifle, why wouldn't I also trust you with a machine gun? Both can make me equally dead. Will having a machine gun make you go crazy and kill people? No. I believe in freedom and I don't believe in restricting the freedom of millions of people to appease people with irrational fears. Once freedoms are lost they are nearly impossible to get back. Machine guns are already illegal for citizens to own in North America so it's a non issue. Anti guns nutjobs want to ban semi autos and handguns. After that they will want to ban pump and lever actions. Next will be bolt actions. If you give them an inch they will take 800 miles.

You would have to read the original post I made about the issue to understand the issue raised. I was not advocating for anything. I was merely pointing out the extremes.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

You would have to read the original post I made about the issue to understand the issue raised. I was not advocating for anything. I was merely pointing out the extremes.

Now you did it rwm! I'm wondering how long it's going to take for someone to call you a Liberal or anti-gun.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

You would have to read the original post I made about the issue to understand the issue raised. I was not advocating for anything. I was merely pointing out the extremes.

I don't think there are any here who want no restrictions though. The only extremists here IMO are the anti-gun people. Nobody here thinks that criminals or the mentally unstable should have firearms. At least I haven't seen anyone advocating for that. I haven't seen anyone here pushing to have machine guns legal to own either, although, as I stated, I would have no problem with them being legal. I guess I just don't see the extremists, as you say, on the pro gun side. Of course an anti gun zealot would think I am a pro gun extremist but I think they are wrong. I'm a pro freedom extremist if anything and very proud of it.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I was merely pointing out the extremes.

Well, the one "extreme" you pointed out is flat illegal and banned in the U.S. There simply are no legal full auto rifles available. Period. So, the one 'extreme' you pointed to just does not exist.

I think it's important to the debate that we stick to facts, don't you agree?

Here's a useful primer from a LEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeyS6LYIx4

[Redfrog]

I don't want one and you don't need one,,end of discussion.

Makes sense to me.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I don't think there are any here who want no restrictions though. The only extremists here IMO are the anti-gun people. Nobody here thinks that criminals or the mentally unstable should have firearms. At least I haven't seen anyone advocating for that. I haven't seen anyone here pushing to have machine guns legal to own either, although, as I stated, I would have no problem with them being legal. I guess I just don't see the extremists, as you say, on the pro gun side. Of course an anti gun zealot would think I am a pro gun extremist but I think they are wrong. I'm a pro freedom extremist if anything and very proud of it.

You're kidding right?

You would have no problem with making machine guns legal to own but you're not a pro-gun extremist?

I think that maybe you should rethink that. Just sayin'.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Well, the one "extreme" you pointed out is flat illegal and banned in the U.S. There simply are no legal full auto rifles available. Period. So, the one 'extreme' you pointed to just does not exist.

I think it's important to the debate that we stick to facts, don't you agree?

Here's a useful primer from a LEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeyS6LYIx4

Rocky, my point was there are extremes on both sides of the issue. That is all. You don't need to read more into it, or question where I stand on the issue. I own guns, and lots of them. Even some scarey black ones.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Rocky, my point was there are extremes on both sides of the issue. That is all. You don't need to read more into it, or question where I stand on the issue. I own guns, and lots of them. Even some scarey black ones.

Some people actually think that full auto weapons are available in the U.S. It's not true. Since you implied the same misconception, I thought it should be corrected.

Most people don't know what an "assault rifle" actually is. Hence, I posted the video.

Truth helps deal with fear.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I don't think there are any here who want no restrictions though. The only extremists here IMO are the anti-gun people. Nobody here thinks that criminals or the mentally unstable should have firearms. At least I haven't seen anyone advocating for that. I haven't seen anyone here pushing to have machine guns legal to own either, although, as I stated, I would have no problem with them being legal. I guess I just don't see the extremists, as you say, on the pro gun side. Of course an anti gun zealot would think I am a pro gun extremist but I think they are wrong. I'm a pro freedom extremist if anything and very proud of it.

Well said.

I can count the number of pro-gun extremists I've heard on one hand.

The anti-gun extremists are legion. Their ignorant bigotry is almost fashionable in some circles. That, in itself, would not bother me so much. What does bother me is other, innocent people are put at risk to feed their agenda and spread their fear.

Why don't any of them put this sign on their own door: "Gun Free Zone"? Why do they just want to advertise that for others, in other places?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Well, the one "extreme" you pointed out is flat illegal and banned in the U.S. There simply are no legal full auto rifles available. Period. So, the one 'extreme' you pointed to just does not exist.

I think it's important to the debate that we stick to facts, don't you agree?

Actually Rocky, it is legal to own full automatic weapons in the USA, just difficult to get. You can not purchase any guns made after 1986, and there were no guns permitted to be imported after 1968. Many various states do restrict or prohibit full auto guns, but not all. Therefore the price of legal full auto guns are expensive, but not illegal.

http://iawca.org/automatic-weapons-faq

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/10/1...three-weapons/

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Actually Rocky, it is legal to own full automatic weapons in the USA, just difficult to get. You can not purchase any guns made after 1986, and there were no guns permitted to be imported after 1968. Many various states do restrict or prohibit full auto guns, but not all. Therefore the price of legal full auto guns are expensive, but not illegal.

http://iawca.org/automatic-weapons-faq

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/10/1...three-weapons/

Interesting.

The first link didn't work for me, but it looks like a collector site. The second one says you need ATF approval. Looks like there is not a nation-wide outright ban because there are some States where you can apply for a permit?

Here's what I found:

It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the ATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety."

The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

Hardly a free-for-all but it does seem there is a way to buy an automatic somewhere. Thx.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

You're kidding right?

You would have no problem with making machine guns legal to own but you're not a pro-gun extremist?

I think that maybe you should rethink that. Just sayin'.

Yea well, you can disagree all you want but I don't need to rethink anything thank you.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Yea well, you can disagree all you want but I don't need to rethink anything thank you.

"You would have no problem with making machine guns legal to own but you're not a pro-gun extremist?"

Isn't that similar to saying something like:

Just because I hate Jews and African Americans that doesn't make me a bigot.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

"You would have no problem with making machine guns legal to own but you're not a pro-gun extremist?"

Isn't that similar to saying something like:

Just because I hate Jews and African Americans that doesn't make me a bigot.

I think you mean racist and no.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The question is wrong, neither side wants to go there, but the question is, do you want to ban or restrict semi automatic weapons. This is the heart of it. Any semi can be outfitted with a 200 round mag by a clever person.

Or by walking into a gun store while in the States and buying one off the shelf and bringing it back in your suitcase. I bet this happens allot.