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Old 02-25-2018, 08:42 AM
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Tigger72 Tigger72 is offline
 
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Default Garage heater help/ gas filters!!!!!

Any bit of constructive help would be sooooo greatly appreciated !!!

I had a brand new gas heater installed and Friday afternoon it stopped working.... Had a guy come over and look at it and figured out it was the exhaust fan ( I think ) that was seized.. the guy said he could replace it but that I should call the guy that installed it to do it under warranty... ( I had been trying to get ahold of him with no luck) When the guy was looking at my heater he said there were a few things that weren't code - ( this is where I get ****ed ) He says the yellow flex hose isn't code and that I need a shut off valve inside, I show him the shut off valve at the outside connection coming from the ground into the garage (he says that should be inside) and he says that the swings joints are wrong and looks at the swing joints coming from meter and those are wrong too!!!!! ( with my very limited almost non-existent gas knowledge and ability to interpret what I found on the internet the swing joints need to have a minimum of 3 elbows.... ) I finally heard from my installer ( at 1045pm) and he said he'd come fix the fan (warranty) and I asked him about the flex hose and he said its allowed and that the code was changed about 5 years ago.... Now I just want to know whats right and whats wrong so I can get it fixed if needed to pass inspection. I found out that my permit has expired and will need a new one pulled as well.... so I'd like this to pass the first go round.
Hopefully you guys that have a better idea of WTF is going on can chime in .... as I'd like to call my installer on it on Monday when he shows up.....
https://imgur.com/2oWeiJH
https://imgur.com/Qae5IM1
https://imgur.com/ZqYUZm6
https://imgur.com/r2ojb1v
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:56 AM
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The valve outside needs to be there where the line enters the building. Those are not swing joints where the gas line enters and exits the ground. There should be a valve on the gas line just before the appliance. Heck, even the gas meter does not have a proper swing joint, but that's the gas company's fault.

I'm curious why the ceiling was not sheeted prior to installing the heater? This job was obviously not done by someone who pulled a permit to do it as it would never have been passed by the inspector. I doubt the installer is ticketed, or if they are they should not have been.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
The valve outside needs to be there where the line enters the building. Those are not swing joints where the gas line enters and exits the ground. There should be a valve on the gas line just before the appliance. Heck, even the gas meter does not have a proper swing joint, but that's the gas company's fault.

I'm curious why the ceiling was not sheeted prior to installing the heater? This job was obviously not done by someone who pulled a permit to do it as it would never have been passed by the inspector. I doubt the installer is ticketed, or if they are they should not have been.
Thanks CT
So the guy is a hack.... great.... I asked about putting up a backing board and he said no need..... I did think that was kinda odd....
What about the yellow connecting hose??
Is there anything that I can reference to him when he shows up to replace the fan to show him it's not code?
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:13 AM
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The flex hose is fine. There is no sediment trap and no shutoff at the appliance.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:20 AM
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I don't know if the same person did the underground gas line but I'll detail the normal sequence of events: Dig trench and install u/g line complete but still exposed so that inspector can verify minimum 18" burial depth. The heater could be installed at the same time so that the inspector only needs one trip out but the line should not be tied in at the house/meter or the final connection to the heater during this pressure test. The swing joint by the meter tie-in can be prepared so that its configuration will be obvious, the swing joint from the line exiting the ground into the garage could have been completed though as it would be part of the line being tested.

I don't use those yellow appliance connectors save for putting in a gas range in a residential kitchen. They're not acceptable for use with infra-red heaters due to those heaters movement from expansion and contraction (they require a special hose and in a specific configuration/shape) but for a properly suspended unit heater they should be OK? To be honest I'm a little rusty on that aspect, I simply default that I don't use them as I always hard pipe them with steel


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The flex hose is fine. There is no sediment trap and no shutoff at the appliance.
I agree the shut off is required, but a drip leg isn't necessary on a line that is uphill all the way to the appliance as oil and debris from threading the pipe could not possibly defy gravity to get up there.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:27 AM
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Well Caber... you would have been real handy a while ago!!!! lol ( thanks for the input so far!!! ) I seem to have great hind sight !!!
So I had a gas fitter come in and do the underground gas line when I built the garage.... it was permitted and tested and passed... capped off at both ends.... I didn't have the funds at the time to get a heater.... which is why the original permit expired... (didn't realize that permits expired that quickly... so thats my fault) when the garage heater was installed he said just call them up and ask them to come out and do the final as you don't think it was ever done.... ( I realize now that that may have meant.... " you're f'd" )
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:57 AM
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The inspector is usually ok with those yellow gas flex lines, as long as they’re not stupidly long.
Definitely need a shutoff at the appliance though.
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Old 02-25-2018, 03:33 PM
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So lets see if I can sum it up so far.... starting at the heater and working back to the house....
1. Flex hose - should be able to get away with it but its not optimal
2. I need a shut off valve inside by the heater
3. Ceiling should have been sheeted ( with drywall I assume )
4. Need a proper swing joint ( min 3 elbows from my understanding ) at the outside connection at the garage
5. Need a proper swing joint at the meter
If I get these right... I should pass inspection... I need a Co. to pull a permit from my understanding....??
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:14 PM
250mark1 250mark1 is offline
 
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need 4 elbows by code now for a proper swing joint with a 16" piece of pipe
between one set of elbows now
yellow gas flex is ok by code
electrical should have a switch if the breaker panel is not in the garage as well
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:30 AM
hunter64 hunter64 is offline
 
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Some clarification to what has already been said.
B149.1-15 Gas Code

6.2.21 CSST (yellow jacket) shall not be used as a gas connector.
6.11.1 (c) CSST systems shall only be connected to an appliance secured in place , or to rigid piping.

Depending on the jurisdiction some inspectors will only allow CSST up to a an appliance turn off and then it has to be hard piped with a dirt pocket and union into the appliance. Either way it is a sign of poor workmanship if it is after the turn off. I know in Edmonton the inspector will fail it as it is hooked up but I can't say for Calgary.

6.13.1 Needs a dirt pocket

6.15.4 Minimum depth for underground secondary is 15 inches.

6.18.2 (d) Manual shut off shall be within a maximum of 50ft of the individual residential appliance.

The turn off is ok where it is as you need one on the inlet and outlet of a secondary but again it is poor piping practice and up to the inspector if it is passed.
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter64 View Post
Some clarification to what has already been said.
B149.1-15 Gas Code

6.2.21 CSST (yellow jacket) shall not be used as a gas connector.
6.11.1 (c) CSST systems shall only be connected to an appliance secured in place , or to rigid piping.

Depending on the jurisdiction some inspectors will only allow CSST up to a an appliance turn off and then it has to be hard piped with a dirt pocket and union into the appliance. Either way it is a sign of poor workmanship if it is after the turn off. I know in Edmonton the inspector will fail it as it is hooked up but I can't say for Calgary.

6.13.1 Needs a dirt pocket

6.15.4 Minimum depth for underground secondary is 15 inches.

6.18.2 (d) Manual shut off shall be within a maximum of 50ft of the individual residential appliance.

The turn off is ok where it is as you need one on the inlet and outlet of a secondary but again it is poor piping practice and up to the inspector if it is passed.
Thanks Hunter!!! Thats the best break down I've received yet.
.... as of last night its hard piped in to the heater there is a shut off valve inside as well and the swing joint was replaced with more elbows.... however..... I don't have a dirt pocket ... and I'm getting a buddies company to pull a permit for me so it can be inspected
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:36 AM
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Default Thanks guys!!

Hey guys... I just want to say thanks for the input.... I have now passed inspection .....
What I got fixed for code:
1. Two new swing joints at the house and at the garage for the connections coming out of the ground.
2. Shut off valve inside by the appliance
3. Yellow flex hose was replaced and it was hard piped in
- and I got the inducer fan motor replaced under warranty.... boy that was a hassle ( especially when you're not an HVAC guy )

What the inspector said about the install - old and new...
1. I don't need the dirt trap
2. I could have stuck with the yellow flex hose as it was code.... just needed the shut off valve.

So what have I learned the hard expensive way..... saving a couple hundred bucks on a install of a good heater... isn't always worth it... I have now paid almost enough for another heater to get this one fixed and up to code....
live and learn....
And I still haven't heard from my original installer yet....
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:45 AM
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"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." Benjamin Franklin
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabertosser View Post
"the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." benjamin franklin
ain't that the truth!!
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