Best Way to Kill Fish

[thefishguy]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Whack a fish on the head......not in my canoe lol. It flops around (in the boat or on the ice or in my backpack) until it's dead. If it's still alive by the time I get to shore or where I'm going...head comes off and cleaned. Why are we bothering about this? They are fish (food) we are people (higher on the food chain)............take a look how we treat each other and forget about ethics between us and fish. Fish pain..........not a concern to me. Fish get eaten ALIVE all the time. Is it unethical to fish with live minnows? How about commercial fishing boats (gill nets). This is too much....Do whatever you want.....but don't waste them.

Now this guy does have a point. But for myself I do not like to inflict suffering.

[goldscud]

Love the arrogance of us humans.

If you want to preserve the quality of the meat, the best thing is to kill the animal quickly. By letting the fish suffocate out of water there is a number of chemical changes going on in the blood system that will decrease quality. The best thing to do is kill the brain rather than gutting/cleaning it live. Sometimes nerves will still be firing causing movement.

Here is some info from the Canadian Association of Animal Care. It's just made up by the top Veterinians and Zoologists in the country. I guess you guys know better...


Fishes have the potential to experience pain, and
manipulations that provoke stress or avoidance/
escape behavior may be causes of distress.
Fishes respond to noxious stimuli with altered
behavioral, physiological and hormonal parameters.
In general, the greater the intensity of stimuli,
the greater the deviation from normal. In
addition, the pattern of response to nociception
generally corresponds to the pattern seen in
more highly evolved vertebrates (Sneddon et al.,
2003). Nonetheless, the recognition and evaluation
of pain and/or distress in fishes is not easy.
Many fish species are prey animals and are
genetically predisposed not to exhibit signs of
injury or pain.
Although fishes lack some of the structures associated
with pain perception in mammals (e.g.,
60 ccac guidelines
well-developed cortex and neospinothalamic
tract), there exists evidence that fishes respond in
a similar manner to noxious stimuli, learn to
avoid "unpleasant" experiences and respond
with an amelioration of pain response after treatment
with morphine (Jansen & Green, 1970).
Fishes also react to aversive stimuli with a full
scale of endocrine and metabolic responses.
Changes in corticosteroid and catecholamine levels,
as well as increases in plasma glucose and
lactic acid as demonstrated in some fish species,
are generally recognized to be indicators of acute
stress.

If you want to eat fish, great. Just kill the critter when you take it out of the water. Why is it OK to let fish slowly die but not OK to stand and watch as your deer/elk lays there slowly bleeding out with a leg shot off. The right thing to do is to end the suffering.

[uglyelk]

Hmmm there was a time when frat boys ate them alive.

The King of France wanted his fish fresh ..."truite au blue" was all the rage.

Your basic trout poached in water flavored with veggies and an acid, vinegar or white wine. Now two things happen with this classical cooking method.

1. Because the trout is plunged into boiling liquid, the elastin and collagen proteins coagulate quickly causing the unboned fish to curl. (Proteins shrink as they coagulate.) Different proteins at different temperatures...your basic bimetallic bar. This allows the chef to serve the trout with tail in mouth around the rice ring. The classical presentation.

2. Because the trout is fresh it has a good even slime coat on the skin. The slime coat turns blue when exposed to acid. Thus the name.

To ensure a good even coat of blue and to let the King know his fish was indeed fresh the chef did two things to ensure a nice blue on the trout.

The trout was handled as little as possible to protect the slime coat.

The slime coat is part of the fish’s immune system it stops functioning when the fish dies. So the fish is eviscerated while alive and plunged into the water, gutted and possibly alive...but definitely fresh.

Hey to each their own. I prefer my trout in a wee bit of butter and white wine.

These ponderings of animal rights and fish rights give me a chuckle. These folks so concerned with the welfare of there plate have never experienced an empty belly. Starvation puts everything in perspective. Do fish suffer?...the musing of folks disconnected from their environment A growing malaise in today’s society.

I must be an unethical brute, hell I care not if the carrot suffers when peeled. Nor do I ponder the pain the lobster or the spud experiences when boiled alive. I'm only focused on cooking it all properly to deliver as much flavour to the plate as the method and product permits.

[Walleyes]

I must be an unethical brute, hell I care not if the carrot suffers when peeled. Nor do I ponder the pain the lobster or the spud experiences when boiled alive. I'm only focused on cooking it all properly to deliver as much flavour to the plate as the method and product permits.

Well put uglyelk,,

And goldscud I read your post and sorry but I do not see where there is definite evidence that fish feel pain just the possibility they can,,, again they are very sensitive to touch that does not mean they feel pain.. So all that work for nothing...

[packhuntr]

Are you guys serious.....They arent a single celled creature, for gods sake, no question about wether or not they are capable of feeling..... They aint made of iron boys... Throw em on the ice, what ever is your flavor, but dont come on here and condone or argue crap like this. Betcha if you help your child land his or her first fish for the freezer, you AFTER KILLING IT are gonna slowly explain why it is youve made the harvest. You should mabey also explain why its unethical to stand by and watch ANYTHING die a slow, and yip no doubt, painful death. Unreal.

keep a strain on er.

[goldscud]

No work at all Walleyes. Just throwing out some info and a point of view. I've been killing and eating creatures my whole life. I guess I just offer them a little more respect than some. Perhaps there is just too much irony/hypocrisy here when considering the manner in which we harvest things.

Uglyelk, good point about starvation. At that point cooking and eating technique aren't really important. I've never been in that situation so I guess I've had more time to think about the fate of my victims.
Thanks for the recipe. I believe that proteins denature rather than coagulate though.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

And goldscud I read your post and sorry but I do not see where there is definite evidence that fish feel pain just the possibility they can,,, again they are very sensitive to touch that does not mean they feel pain.. So all that work for nothing...

From this I read that there is no evidence they feel pain, but there's no evidence they don't, so if the possibility that they feel pain exists, and I guess only the fish really know for sure, the only reasonable and ethical course of action would be to humanely kill them before cleaning them. I can't imagine a much worse death than being gutted or filletted and feeling the whole thing happening.

[uglyelk]

Anyone ever throw them on the ice and then bring them home stuffed in a pack for the drive home. Chuck them in the sink to thaw out only to find them swimming in your sink when they do.

I live in Banff and fish the Spray, has happened on more than one occassion. Sucks when the wee ones want to keep them as pets instead of eating them. I punch most of them in the head now when I catch them. Blows me away they can live that long in the cold out of water.

Comforting to know I can go to the far end of the Spray and still have live fish if I want to poach them blue. These lakers are far tougher than some of the folks I've met on the forums.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by goldscud

believe that proteins denature rather than coagulate though.

That might be true to a scientist. But every professional cook sees the process as coagulation, thickening. Art and science always are at odds. I'd rather eat art than worship science. To each his own. Yeah you heat schit and it changes. Everyone has their own language to describe it.

Yeah starving people don't have hang ups about food. They don't care is the fish has slime or not, it's all better than rat and boiled harness.And everything is better than an empty belly.

But the bottom line is when your hungry you don't give a rat’s ass about where the grub came from or if it suffered you just wolf down a share.

Ideological rants about grub are indicative of a problem in my look at the world. I'm no scientist but I figure if folks are all hung up on food ethics then we might just be looking at the manifestation of a personal issue.

Then again maybe they are just closet philosophers.

I’m happy to go thru life not loosing sleep over the pain fish feel, carrots feel. Hell this brute doesn’t even care if the gravel feels pain when it gets crushed under my boots.

Guess I’m just not a new age sensitive type.

Better stop replying to those adds!

[Unregistered user]

I just get all Ozzy Osbourne on 'em.

"Chuck them in the sink to thaw out only to find them swimming in your sink when they do."

Its illegal to possess live game fish after leaving the lake. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed that regulation.

[Tabers Best]

WALLEYES I feel that people like you give outdoorsmen a bad rep. If you have upset other people who share the same passions as you, what do you think the general public would think of this? Really is it that hard to select a different method?

[Walleyes]

And what method is that ??? did I give my method of keeping fish or did I just state that some of the methods given were all rite by me,, hmmm ????

[Donny Bear]

Didn't read all the posts I figure if ethics are envolved then us Alien s-b's should not be enticing them to bite steel hooks and abducting them from their world.

With that said I insert my knife in the base of the skull severe the spine and render them motionless and I presume dead or paralized oh! I hope thats not the case with out eyelids to bat at me I guess I will never know

Signed arrogant human _______________ you fill in the blanks but this should be on a veggan forum.

[Tabers Best]

Walleyes your grasping at straws cause you know you are wrong. If your method is different, then why do you do it a different way??? Busted. I am not looking for a fight I just think that sportspeople should always have the greatest respect for their harvest. Sometime's we all have the potential to learn and grow, it is just if we choose to change our methods.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Tabers Best

Walleyes your grasping at straws cause you know you are wrong. If your method is different, then why do you do it a different way??? Busted. I am not looking for a fight I just think that sportspeople should always have the greatest respect for their harvest. Sometime's we all have the potential to learn and grow, it is just if we choose to change our methods.

Respect................for the fish? There isn't any. Respect is all about people, not fish or any animal. We are above fish, it is us you find respect (or not). Do not elevate a fish so as to have the same qualities as a man. If we are fishing for food, then we will kill the fish. Why is it necessary to emphasize how we kill it (only to be measured and judged)? Suffocating out of water is good enough for me. Maybe I'm cold hearted......just as a fish is cold blooded. In the end, it died, and I ate it. No reverence is bestowed on a fish.....it's just food.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by jrs

"Chuck them in the sink to thaw out only to find them swimming in your sink when they do."

Its illegal to possess live game fish after leaving the lake. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed that regulation.

Doh!!!! I forgot to bring a stethoscope! 3 hours on the ice, an hour hike an hour drive and the friggin fish is alive still. Now I'm all afraid to answer the door because it might be a CO coming to arrest me for transporting live fish from the lake to the frying pan. Crap life with bubba is just around the corner because I did not respect fish like a person.

It's not like I put them in another body of water....well a sink I guess is a body of water to some folks .



Who would have thunk it a fish frozen hard enough to pound tent pegs into the frozen ground is actually still alive. Well not all of them but some of them.

Do the regulations tell us how to kill a fish? What is death? Should I check for brain waves? Are fish eggs fish? Is a fish egg like a fetus? Does it have rights under the law? When does life begin? When does it end? Do momma fish cry if we catch and eat their offspring? OHHhh it's all so confusing.

Folks: its fish it's food eat it. Eagles, fish, bear, and otters eat them alive. But if you sleep better at night dispatch them however you wish. If you can't live with the pain suffering and emotional hardship you inflict on fish by killing them and chowing down on them etc. I'd recommend tofu and the tooti fruiti lifestyle embraced by new age vegans

[Walleyes]

I honestly can not beleive that this is even worthy of a discussion.. I do not know for the life of me why I got caught up in it.. Some of you people call yourselves intelligent and this is what you come up with... If you honestly care about the well being and the feelings of this fish ( I don't beleive what I'm saying) you wouldn't fish for them in the first place.. If they feel how do you think it feels to have a hook in your mouth ?? again please I say please let me hook a #00 treble in your lip and pull on it and see how it feels if these fish feel pain you will understand it and you will stop fishing..

Just for the record I keep and kill fish in a variety of methods depending on species and what is available at the time in order to keep them fresh.. My preferred method is a live well and to the cleaning table still flopping.. If you listen really close you can hear them scream when you insert the knife in their belly,,,, what a rush !!!!!!!

[packhuntr]

Sounds like afew folks here are lacking respect for life... Ehntr....What makes us so high and mighty....... Oh, i think its the thumbs if i recall, im thinking were still animals though, could be wrong though, i know in todays society we as humanoids are gods, and all other life should give in to us....and our thumbs...

Why on earth do you fellas get so wound up about un-ethical things that un-educated outdoors people do. Only to turn a 360, and forget that this is about ethics and educating others. In the end it doesnt matter i guess, just sounds like theres a very large group of people here with absolutely no respect for life instilled in them as youths.

keep a strain on er.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by Mish

I'm looking for the least painful way for the fish.

club it like a seal jks


holay, cant believe i said that. but yep a quick sharp strike behind the eyes for me, i mean, the fish,

[CNP]

originally posted by packhuntr.... Oh, i think its the thumbs if i recall

? The Lord blessed me with two. Something else about thumbs I should know?

How about that worm you impale on your hook and throw into the water (this is sarcasm boys). This is the "New" ethics. Some people will bring ethics down to a level where it nought ought to reside. Hey, I'm not high and mighty....I just know my place and where fish reside also. Stop with the ethics............this is about fishing and killing fish for the purpose of eating fish. Protest the commercial fishery why don't you?

[uglyelk]

bow fishing , spear fishing....the horror the horror.

What else can be done with thumbs? Well some folks sit on them and emote empathy for their brothers the fish.

Then they donate funds to suport like minded folks and their propoganda.

Nature good man bad!

http://www.fishinghurts.com/


Can't even have a relaxing day fishing without some peckerwood bothering you with their emotional hang ups.

Ralph should have never cut back on mental health funding. Now we are harrassed with the pain fishing causes.

Well it's a lot less than the pain of an empty belly and it's about equal to what fish inflict upon fish when they eat each other.

I'd like to see some of these vegan warriors fall on their swords, take one for the team and feed the earth worms. Become part of the food chain, help me feed the fish. Nice plump juicy earth worms!

Hey check out the bow hunting video on the peta site. It's suposed to horrify us, but it just looks like fun to me.

[packhuntr]

Boy, do i feel smarter now........take care.

keep a strain on er.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Respect................for the fish? There isn't any. Respect is all about people, not fish or any animal.

WTF?? If you have no respect for the animals we pursue, kill and consume then you have no business being out hunting, or fishing for that matter. I'm not suggesting that animals are on the same level as people, but no respect for them? Again....WTF? I'm a little surprised, and disappaointed, at some of the attitudes here.

[dss44]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Respect................for the fish? There isn't any. Respect is all about people, not fish or any animal. We are above fish, it is us you find respect (or not). Do not elevate a fish so as to have the same qualities as a man. If we are fishing for food, then we will kill the fish. Why is it necessary to emphasize how we kill it (only to be measured and judged)? Suffocating out of water is good enough for me. Maybe I'm cold hearted......just as a fish is cold blooded. In the end, it died, and I ate it. No reverence is bestowed on a fish.....it's just food.

Hmm...I definitely have to disagree to a certain extent. I think you should respect an animal that is giving up (obviously not voluntarily) it's life for you to eat it. Fish is a little different I'd say. And they have nerves...so they do feel pain. That is why when you hook a big Chinook salmon they take off in the other direction...they feel the hook in their mouth. Just my 2 cents.

[dss44]

And I'd say a swift blow to the head once you untangle them out of the net is the best way to go.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

WTF?? If you have no respect for the animals we pursue, kill and consume then you have no business being out hunting, or fishing for that matter. I'm not suggesting that animals are on the same level as people, but no respect for them? Again....WTF? I'm a little surprised, and disappaointed, at some of the attitudes here.

Hmmm good thing no one voted DelburneDave god of the hunt, sounds like he'd hoard all the tags for folks who shared his values and beliefs.: If you expect to go through life encountering only people who share your way of life and belief system I expect you will be disappointed more than once.

If one is hunting wacko's all one needs to do is sprinkle some bait on the trail and they come a runnin! Look what I reeled in this time this one sits in judgement on all who hunt or fish. It's either Daves way or no way what a narrow vision of the world.

Been playing devils advocate here. I've been punching my fish on the noggin for years ever since they came to life in my sink.

I certainly wouldn't declare all those who have concern for the pain and suffering of fish should be banned from harvesting them. But then I don't persume to sit in judgement as this gentleman has. Now I can't quite get my head around this don't let the fish suffer but I kill them position.Sounds a we bit hipocritical to me.

Possibly one of these new age types might explain how their killing fish is more noble than someone else killing fish. Is there a scale you use. Is there an instrument thats used to measure pain and suffering experienced during fish mortality. Once you exceed a certain ready your un worthy to harvest. Where do you get them.

This thread is just plain silly! Then again we got folks saving snails in Banff, so I guess it's just indicitive of how misguided we have become.

[danewfy]

a bonk to the head to keep them from moving, then a quick filleting. whats the problem with this? does anybody eat lobster or use live bait? i do whatever i feel is best to preserve the quality of the food. after all thats why im fishing\hunting. if im not going to eat it then i wont try to harvest it. i dont fish in catch and release lakes because it makes no sense to me. ill take a small buck or a doe because i dont give a rats ass about the horns. i buy all the applicable liscenses and take only what i will eat, nothing more. if i was getting teary eyed every time i harvested a game animal or fish i guess i would become a naked vegetarian. just my 2 cents worth.

[albertadave]

Whatever ugly, thanks for putting all those words in my mouth , I was having a real hard time getting them out myself. You admit you playing devil's advocate so stir it up some more and get the thread locked. There's nothing new age about having respect for animals and treating them humanely, it's just common sense and decency. I guess it all depends how you were brought up.

[Walleyes]

There's nothing new age about having respect for animals and treating them humanely,

No there isn't except a fish is neither an animal nor a human...