Advice re: surfacing fish?

[Geezle]

Ok, first off here's the situation. I'm thinking mainly of the NSR, which as we all know has quite the variety of species. I'm working with a 6'6 medium action spinning combo with 10lb mono on it.

So far in the river I've mainly been baitfishing just a little off the bottom. A couple times while out, particularly when I was with BBJ I noticed a lot of fish surfacing.

So my question is, what would you do to target said fish? Just in kind of a general sense I guess, since there are a number of species that *could* be there, and from shore it's rather tough to tell what's out there.

Would you chuck out a spoon or spinner? Rig up a bobber with bait suspended just below the surface? Something else?

[pdfish]

Chances are you're dealing with goldeye. My advice, buy a fly rod and learn to use it. They're a great fish for learning how to fly fish. They're not finicky or spooked easily and put up a pretty good fight on lightweight gear.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by pdfish

Chances are you're dealing with goldeye. My advice, buy a fly rod and learn to use it. They're a great fish for learning how to fly fish. They're not finicky or spooked easily and put up a pretty good fight on lightweight gear.

Yeah, I was kind of figuring at least the majority of the would probably be goldeyes.

Sadly this is my first year fishing after a 6-7 year hiatus, so I've had to re-buy all my gear, and a fly setup just isn't in the budget for this season...though it may be a learning adventure for next year

[DarkAisling]

A fly sounds like the way to go.

You can use a fly with a spinning rod. I think Cal (I'm sure it was Cal), gave me some instructions for how to do this. I'll see if I can dig up the thread for you.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

A fly sounds like the way to go.

You can use a fly with a spinning rod. I think Cal (I'm sure it was Cal), gave me some instructions for how to do this. I'll see if I can dig up the thread for you.

Awesome

I seem to recall seeing instructions on how to use a fly with a spinning setup around here somewhere now that you mention it

[Battery]

i do this quite often with a san juan worm. Although its not for targeting the fish on top of the water, for top water you could just put one of those bobbers that fills with water(for casting purposes) and put a dry fly 8 or 10 feet below the stopper. works great for spin cast

[moosehunter3-0]

if they are goldeye try a #1 silver blue fox spinner and buzz it right under the surface, pretty well any silver bladed spinner catches goldeye as well as rocky mt whites

[DarkAisling]

Yes, it was Cal. This is what he had to say:

"tie a nail onto the end of your fishing line and tie a small fly a foot or so up on a dropper."

You could use a weight instead of a nail (like I did). Make the dropper out of fishing line. I put a split ring at the end of the dropper, and attached it to a ballswivel that was tied to my line, with the fly at the end of the dropper. I played around with a few different lengths of droppers (didn't have any success), and a few different flys. Buy yourself a cheap Crappy Tire fly and play around with it I think I used 8lb test, but that's probably too heavy.

Also, Baitfisher83 has converted an old fishing rod to a flyfishing rod. It isn't the prettiest rig, but it gets the job done. I watched her use it for a bit . . . pretty cool.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by moosehunter3-0

if they are goldeye try a #1 silver blue fox spinner and buzz it right under the surface, pretty well any silver bladed spinner catches goldeye as well as rocky mt whites

Not sure about the size, but I have a couple spinners I picked up at the big sale at TFH that I'd like to try. They're 1/4 oz but I don't know what # that would work out to be. This might be my opportunity to try them

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Yes, it was Cal. This is what he had to say:

"tie a nail onto the end of your fishing line and tie a small fly a foot or so up on a dropper."

You could use a weight instead of a nail (like I did). Make the dropper out of fishing line. I put a split ring at the end of the dropper, and attached it to a ballswivel that was tied to my line, with the fly at the end of the dropper. I played around with a few different lengths of droppers (didn't have any success), and a few different flys. Buy yourself a cheap Crappy Tire fly and play around with it I think I used 8lb test, but that's probably too heavy.

Also, Baitfisher83 has converted an old fishing rod to a flyfishing rod. It isn't the prettiest rig, but it gets the job done. I watched her use it for a bit . . . pretty cool.

Yikes...if your 8lb test was probably too heavy, then my 10lb would almost definitely be too heavy, wouldn't it?

I guess the best thing to do would just be to try (I have no idea about flies...gotta start somewhere!)


And baitfisher...get in here and tell me about this setup you have!

[Cal]

For tying small flies on you might need a 4lb test leader on the end of whatever your using, if 10 or 8 lb test line will fit through the eye of your fly it will probably work though. For surface feeding fish the bobber setup is better than the nail rig. And using a spinner or spoon will often work as well, in the lesser slave river I often catch large goldeye while trolling shallow diving plugs for walleye. The biggest one I've caught was caught on a 7" rapala and was close to 60cm long. I've only ever caught goldeye on such big lures in the Slave river though, in the NSR I usualy caught them on worms under a bobber.

[Geezle]

I haven't read through the thread about using a fly with a spinning setup yet, though I plan to as soon as I have a few minutes. I do have one question so far though...I think it'll be an easy one.

As far as using a 4lb test leader, how exactly would I tie this on to my 10lb line? Just tie the two together? (if so, is there a particular way to do it?) Use a swivel between the two lines? Something else?

[Geezle]

Sorry Cal, I tried searching but only found bits and pieces about using flies on a spinning setup.

From what I understand there are a couple ways to go about doing it. There's "the nail method" which I didn't quite get, but it doesn't sound like that's what I'd use in the situation I'm thinking of (surfacing fish) and then there's another way to do it with a bobber at the end of the line and the fly a couple feet back, on the surface? I think that's what I need to do.

Aside from my previous question about attaching the lighter line, what kind of bobber is it that you can put water in and cast out? And for tying it, do you tie the line to the fly, and then the fly to the bobber on another piece of line, or somehow just tie the fly up from the bobber on the same piece of line?

Next time I have a few free minutes I think I'm going to grab a spool of 4lb line (can use it on my light ice fishing setup as well) and a couple random flies from Cambodian Tire. Any suggestions?

[flygirrl]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Sorry Cal, I tried searching but only found bits and pieces about using flies on a spinning setup.

From what I understand there are a couple ways to go about doing it. There's "the nail method" which I didn't quite get, but it doesn't sound like that's what I'd use in the situation I'm thinking of (surfacing fish) and then there's another way to do it with a bobber at the end of the line and the fly a couple feet back, on the surface? I think that's what I need to do.

Aside from my previous question about attaching the lighter line, what kind of bobber is it that you can put water in and cast out? And for tying it, do you tie the line to the fly, and then the fly to the bobber on another piece of line, or somehow just tie the fly up from the bobber on the same piece of line?

Next time I have a few free minutes I think I'm going to grab a spool of 4lb line (can use it on my light ice fishing setup as well) and a couple random flies from Cambodian Tire. Any suggestions?

You can buy bobbers for flies, they are torpedo shaped and you tie the bobber onto the line than tie more line on the end of the torpedo bobber than the fly to the line. Ive seen them at crappy tire.

[Beazer]

I use line made for tippets for my flies on spinning setup.

[Battery]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Sorry Cal, I tried searching but only found bits and pieces about using flies on a spinning setup.

From what I understand there are a couple ways to go about doing it. There's "the nail method" which I didn't quite get, but it doesn't sound like that's what I'd use in the situation I'm thinking of (surfacing fish) and then there's another way to do it with a bobber at the end of the line and the fly a couple feet back, on the surface? I think that's what I need to do.

Aside from my previous question about attaching the lighter line, what kind of bobber is it that you can put water in and cast out? And for tying it, do you tie the line to the fly, and then the fly to the bobber on another piece of line, or somehow just tie the fly up from the bobber on the same piece of line?

Next time I have a few free minutes I think I'm going to grab a spool of 4lb line (can use it on my light ice fishing setup as well) and a couple random flies from Cambodian Tire. Any suggestions?

there are slip bobbers that fill with water. they are see through. all you need to do is put a bobber stopper 8 or 10 feet up the line, put the bobber on so i can slide freely and then tie the fly on the end of the line. these bobbers either break in half or have a plug allowing you to fill them with the amount of water you desire.



bad picture but the only one i could find. They come in slip or tie on.

[Cal]

The ones you have pictured there are not slip bobbers (fishing a fly on the surface is about the only situation I dont use a slip bobber, cant realy see how that would work). You thread the line through the surgical tubing that runs down the centre (keep a straw off a juice box to help with this as it can be super frustrating) then twist the end cap and thats what keeps your line in place. You want at least 5' of line between your bobber and your fly.

My favorite knot for tying two peices of line togeather is called the "Double Duncan Loop" I find it is the easyest to perform and remember and results in a nice tidy knot. If I tryed to describe it it would probably be confusing so just google it and you should be able to find some pictures.

[DarkAisling]

If you get wind knots (as I was getting) with the two lines tied together, attach the two pieces of line with a swivel. In that case, I'd probably use a split ring at the end of the piece being used for the fly, and put the swivel on the line on the reel. You could probably skip the bobber stop that way, too, as the swivel will stop the bobber.

I made up a few little "perch rigs" last night with 6lb test. They're about two feet long. I put a split ring on one end, tied a little Fat Boy in the middle, and then tied a little wet fly to the end. They seem pretty strong, and they'll help prevent wind knots.

[SwampShark]

I agree with the bobber and fly suggestions. I've had some luck with this set-up in streams prior to my flyfishing days. I have never tried it in a larger system like the NSR but don't see why it wouldn't work. I typically stick to baitfishing in the NSR but have been tempted to target the risers as well. If you use a light flyrod I would also go with a fairly light test because I usually see pike and even the odd WE rising along with the Goldeye. I would rather break off a fly then snap my rod. I have actually watched people flyfishing walleye in the mouth of an unmentioned tributary to the NSR. Looks like alot of fun.

[Cal]

heres a link on how to tie a Double Duncan Loop knot http://books.google.ca/books?id=CRoJ...&pg=PA34&lpg=P

If your line is tangling while casting this rig, which it does, I dont know that a swivel will fix the problem since neither the fly or the bobber should be spining enough to cause any serious line twisting. One thing that will help is if you put the bobber at the end of your line and the fly 5' up your line sort of like a floating pickerel rig, have not tried this with wet flys. Another thing you can do is stop the line befor the bobber hits the water which will cause your leader and fly to straighten out befor it hits the water rather than landing in a heap.

[Geezle]

I'm a little confused about the bobber thing still...seems like there's a couple options.

I'm going to see if I can find the specific bobber for using with a fly like flygirl suggested...it seemed like it might be the easiest?

I'll probably see about getting a torpedo kinda one as well that you can put water in to see which I prefer

Sound about right?

Originally Posted by morgan01

It is definitely one of the best method of cleaning the fish.

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[DarkAisling]

Pictures would really help sometimes . . . wouldn't they?

[Geezle]

True story.

If all else fails in a day or two I'll end up posting some pics just to make sure I'm getting it right

I have to do the same thing with "Cal's crazy jigbait" as soon as I pick up some spinners

[Geezle]

So I stopped by TFH on my way home from work today and checked out the bobbers...all I can say is WOW there's a lot of different types!

I asked one of the guys working there what to use for this setup, and he suggested either the kind you can put the water in, or a small slip bobber. I ended up getting one of the ones you can put water in from their bulk bins, but I didn't even think to get stoppers or anything for it (duh!)

I also saw some that had a spring or other device at the bottom of the bobber to hold the line in...would something like this be useful?

[Cal]

Pretty sure you DONT need a bobber stop if its one of the ones you can put water in. Does your line thread through a length of surgical tubing that runs through the middle of the bobber? I'm betting it does, once you've run your line through the bobber twist the cap that you use to fill it with water. When the surgical tube twists up your line will be held in place. For some reason I sometimes have major trouble getting my line through the surgical tubing, it catches on a small lip at the bottom of the bobber or somthing. Carrying a small diameter straw to help you get the line through the bobber will save you a whole lot of swearing.

[Geezle]

You're right, I don't need a bobber stop

I just finished reading through a PDF that DarkAisling sent me about using a fly on a spinning setup and it made a few things more clear for me (diagrams are amazing things)

I'm reasonably sure I know *how* to go about this now, but there's still a lot of info about flies I need to pick up. Fly selection being the biggest thing.

Any suggestions on general flies to try when out on the river? I was going to just pick up some random ones from Cambodian Tire but I'm not sure if that's the best way to go or not.

[Cal]

I've got a few flys I like but I'm not realy sure what a bunch of them are called. Royal coachmen have been good to me as well as the gold ribbed hair's ear and black woolly buggers. Best bet is to ask the guys in TFH, thats what I usualy do and so far they havnt sold me any duds. I learned to flyfish on a summer long road trip to alaska and pretty much all I used all summer was a royal coachman just cause it kept catching fish so I never botherd to change it.

[Geezle]

Sounds good to me...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I'll probably hit up TFH again tomorrow after work and see what they have to say about flies. I don't see myself getting a ton unless I eventually get a full fly setup, but if I can get myself a decent little handful for the occasions that I do want to use a fly, that would be great

Hopefully I'll get a chance to give this technique a shot this weekend

[Geezle]

Well I pulled the trigger and bought some flies today.

I started out at Canadian Tire just to see what they had, and I *almost* picked up a pack of a dozen dry flies for $5.99. They also had packs of nymphs and streamers at different prices, but overall not too expensive. The main reason I didn't get any there was because I know nothing about flies and what to look for in a 'good' fly.

So I ended up at TFH once again and asked one of the guys there for a hand picking out some flies. He picked me out a dozen various flies...a couple of them doubles, and then after that I picked out a couple wooly buggers since I think I see that fly posted most often on here.

So here's what I got



I'm going to be trying to use these flies with my spinning setup. The plan is to put a 'water bobber' on my line, and then a swivel on the end of the line. The swivel should act as a stop for the bobber, and then I'll tie a length of 4lb test line to the swivel, and then the fly to the end of that line.

Does that sound roughly right?

Oh yeah, I also picked up a little bottle of 'Poo Goo' floatant...the guy who picked out my flies suggested it when I asked him about floatant. Not sure if I really need it or not, but I've got it if I do

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Geezle , I was using my Fly rod Thursday night with the Black and Green Wolly bugger catching Gold eye man was that fun .