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  #61  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:24 PM
grinr grinr is offline
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post

I may be out to lunch, but when I am trying to reach out and touch something I back cast as much line as the rod can handle with a sharp pull with my free (left) hand. Also in my left hand is a loose coil of extra line that I let feed off my hand after the air borne line is maxed out. Less line in the air means more control, less chance of hitting something behind me, less chance of over powering the rod, more line speed and IMO maximum distance.

I have been wrong before, so it certainly won't be something new.
Ummmm...yes,it's called single and/or double hauling.
sorry,not trying to be a smartazz,I'm sure you knew that.
I'm doing the same thing as you,false casting what the rod(or what I?) can handle,and shooting as many coils as I can manage.But for arguments sake,let's say I can manage 5 shooting coils totaling 30 feet?What I'm saying is that instead of double hauling/false casting 40' of line (250gr?)and shooting 30 more,by dropping one line weight I'm carrying 50' (same 250gr)in the air and shooting the same 30' for a gain of 10',which can mean the difference between my fly reaching that seam where a salmon is lying,or coming up ten feet short?
Just making these numbers up somewhat,but you get the idea.Point being,if you have a max amount of coils that you can comfortably shoot without getting tangled up and all that....say 5-6 coils(?),then you can gain distance on the amount of line that you false cast while keeping that airborne line weight the same simply by dropping one line weight.
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  #62  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by grinr View Post
Ummmm...yes,it's called single and/or double hauling.
sorry,not trying to be a smartazz,I'm sure you knew that.
I'm doing the same thing as you,false casting what the rod(or what I?) can handle,and shooting as many coils as I can manage.But for arguments sake,let's say I can manage 5 shooting coils totaling 30 feet?What I'm saying is that instead of double hauling/false casting 40' of line (250gr?)and shooting 30 more,by dropping one line weight I'm carrying 50' (same 250gr)in the air and shooting the same 30' for a gain of 10',which can mean the difference between my fly reaching that seam where a salmon is lying,or coming up ten feet short?
Just making these numbers up somewhat,but you get the idea.Point being,if you have a max amount of coils that you can comfortably shoot without getting tangled up and all that....say 5-6 coils(?),then you can gain distance on the amount of line that you false cast while keeping that airborne line weight the same simply by dropping one line weight.
Before we stomp this horse right into the ground let's assume some things.

A fast 5 wt rod could also be considered a slow or medium 6wt or an extra fast 4wt. Depending on a casters style he could choose any of the above lines and be happy. I get that.

You have an 8wt rod that performs more to YOUR liking with 7wt line. I have a 5 wt 9.5' CPX I just spooled up with 6wt to better suit what I want it to do, cast drys off a pontoon boat. I get that too.

The link suggests a person that has a rod that is spooled with a wt of line that suits the casters style should carry several weights of line for different conditions. This would suggest that a person with a smooth deliberate stroke can suddenly change his style to a fast action and cast a lighter line farther into the wind.

I am suggesting that your rod is now a fast 7wt like you prefer and that my 5 wt CPX is now a medium fast 6 wt like I prefer. I can't cast the rod worth a dam with regular 5wt line but it is decent with 5.5wt line. I have not tried it yet but I am thinking it will be awesome with 6 wt line and still enable me to cast a more tapered line for drys.

I realize distance is king on eastern rivers and that a strike can happen any time on the retrieve like casting lures or spin baits. The more water you cover the better your chances as the fish are not feeding. This is the exception rather than a rule and I believe most fly fishing requires a rod/line combo that can deliver any time at any distance within reason.

Do you carry a lighter line in case it gets windy, a regular line if conditions are normal and a heavier line in case you want to hit a small stream on the way home like the link suggests?
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  #63  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:03 PM
grinr grinr is offline
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No I don't,I have other complete outfits for that,lol.
What I am saying though,is I will bet my waders that in normal conditions I can cast your 6wt Z farther with a 5wt line then with the 6 it calls for.
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  #64  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:05 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is online now
 
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Mtgt.

You apparently don't have your account set to allow messages. So here is the one you shoulda got.

Don


I build bamboo rods only and don't do blanks. See:http://bamboorods.ca/

If you wish to build a rod, see the guys below. They have a sack full of blanks.
http://www.rodbuildersupplies.com/

One thing I do know - most graphite rods don't cast light lines well. The material is more suited to line weights greater than 5. Glass is where I'd go for a 2 or 3 wt.
Failing that, if you got the time to wait I'll build you a bamboo rod this winter.

And lastly, installing parts on a graphite or glass blank is dead easy. I built my first one in 1968 from a single page of instructions that included line drawings. I bought the parts on Friday and it was on the Oldman attached to a trout Sunday.

regards,

Don
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  #65  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:15 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is online now
 
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MK2750,

I've got rods where I use 4, 5 or 6 wts. Others where I use 6 DT or 7 WF. I use the line that suits the conditions. Further, the line weight is chosen to match the fly thrown. I made several rods over the past couple of years where I can't decide [nor can others] what line they should be rated for - some say 4 and others 5. Me, I can't tell. Confused - well so am I.
Mind I've made rods with a double parabolic taper that really only liked one line weight. Rods of linear tapers will cast a whole series of lines w/o effort.

And the thinner the line, the better it casts.
You wanta real eye opener, try a silk line. About 10>15% increase in distance for the same effort.
Equate this to a 6.5mm boattail vs throwing a beer keg.


Don
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  #66  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
MK2750,

I've got rods where I use 4, 5 or 6 wts. Others where I use 6 DT or 7 WF. I use the line that suits the conditions. Further, the line weight is chosen to match the fly thrown. I made several rods over the past couple of years where I can't decide [nor can others] what line they should be rated for - some say 4 and others 5. Me, I can't tell. Confused - well so am I.
Mind I've made rods with a double parabolic taper that really only liked one line weight. Rods of linear tapers will cast a whole series of lines w/o effort.

And the thinner the line, the better it casts.
You wanta real eye opener, try a silk line. About 10>15% increase in distance for the same effort.
Equate this to a 6.5mm boattail vs throwing a beer keg.


Don
This certainly beats my theory of having a different rod for everyday of the week and would be a lot cheaper.

I have some experimenting to do for sure. I have been thinking about a fast 9' 4wt for tiny drys. I have a medium 5wt that I have not touched in years. Maybe with some 3 or 4wt DT line it will be the rod I am looking for even though it handles 5wt line fine.
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  #67  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by grinr View Post
No I don't,I have other complete outfits for that,lol.
What I am saying though,is I will bet my waders that in normal conditions I can cast your 6wt Z farther with a 5wt line then with the 6 it calls for.
Me too.

The bet was for 4 wt and into the wind like Lefty suggests.

What kind of waders are you wagering?
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  #68  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:16 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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MK, I see your point being based on "factory rod weight rating". Most rods will handle a range of 3 -4 line weights. A lot of the newer fast action rods on the market today seem to be rated towards the bottom of the rod's line weight range. Hence a 6 wt rod will easily handle 6 , 7 and 8 wt lines but the best distance will still come from the lightest thinnest line the rod can carry (in this case that would be a 6 wt.)

The idea behind "underlining" assumes the rod is rated at close to the mid range of what it is designed to carry,,, but the same principle that the best distance is achieved with the lighest thinnest line still applies.

The debate then (if there is one is) centers on the rodmaker's line weight rating of flyrods.

Grinr, perhaps a better way of describing how line weight choice affects rod action would be to say changing the line weight changes the "rod feel". Having 50 feet of heavier flyline out will cause to the rod to bend further down the blank giving the rod a "midflex feel". 50 feet of lighter flyline will put the bend closer to the tip giving the rod more of a faster action tip casting feel.
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  #69  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:53 AM
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Getting back to the fly rod shootout (even though it seems the OP is taking a timeout) the one thing we don't have here in the Red Deer area is a "try before you buy" type fly shop. There is seldom even anyone manning the fly fishing departments and the ones that due generally don't know which end of the rod a person should be holding.

The selection also sucks because both shops have chosen to carry basically the same line up of Sage and Redington.

I would love to get together with a bunch of experienced guys and try some different rods. I love the look of the Winston rods and the Scot rods seem very popular on some forums. The G Loomis and Hardy's also perk my interest.

I have a good selection of the Sage/Redington line up if anyone wanted to try them out as well as a few TFOs.

It could also be a swap meet/sale where a person could sell or trade some of their dust collectors. New fly fishers could come out, try a few styles of rods, get some pointers, and perhaps purchase some used gear at a savings.

There is a couple of camp site/day use areas along the Red Deer River that would be perfect for such an event as a person could actually try some different rods on the water with different lines or flys.
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  #70  
Old 04-18-2013, 01:47 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Not sure if this is the sort of thing you may have been thinking in terms of MK, but, it's on this Sat;
TU Tackle Swap & Boat Sale
WhenSaturday, 20 Apr 2013
WhereSouth Calgary Community Association 3130 16 St SW Calgary (map)
DescriptionTROUT UNLIMITED - BOW RIVER CHAPTER 2013 TACKLE SWAP & BOAT SALE: Saturday April 20th 10 am - 12 pm Table Setup: 9 - 10 am Sale: 10 am - 12 pm Cleanup: 12 - 1 pm Doors open to public @ 10 am sharp - no earlybirds! Sell your own used fishing gear or your boat, call now to reserve your table - $25 To book your table contact: Craig Robillard (403) 968-8788 craiglr@gmail.com
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  #71  
Old 04-20-2013, 07:31 PM
Flyfishen Flyfishen is offline
 
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Too many goodies to choose from.
X2
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:53 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Not sure which fly fishing thread I was asked to say which setup I decided on.

But here it is....(it fits here too)

Winston 7'-6'' 2wt w/ vintage Hardy flyweight reel loaded w/ DT2 line.

Its freakin beautiful and casts like a dream (its an older Winston so not so sloppy as some other makes).
The vintage Hardy (click) is my new fave reel....now I want more Hardy's.

I tried rods from 6ft to 8-6 (2-3wt) and this lenght was just perfect for casting up to 40ft.

Out of respect to the gentleman who sold it to me....I won't say the price I payed.
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  #73  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:55 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
Not sure if this is the sort of thing you may have been thinking in terms of MK, but, it's on this Sat;
TU Tackle Swap & Boat Sale
WhenSaturday, 20 Apr 2013
WhereSouth Calgary Community Association 3130 16 St SW Calgary (map)
DescriptionTROUT UNLIMITED - BOW RIVER CHAPTER 2013 TACKLE SWAP & BOAT SALE: Saturday April 20th 10 am - 12 pm Table Setup: 9 - 10 am Sale: 10 am - 12 pm Cleanup: 12 - 1 pm Doors open to public @ 10 am sharp - no earlybirds! Sell your own used fishing gear or your boat, call now to reserve your table - $25 To book your table contact: Craig Robillard (403) 968-8788 craiglr@gmail.com
Did anyone get any new toys at this meet?
I missed it.
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  #74  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:53 AM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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Sweet setup, but now you have to wait till es1 opens
Good luck with it!
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  #75  
Old 04-23-2013, 06:26 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Next question boys....

Looking for a 10ft, 8 or 9wt fly rod for BC Salmon river fishing.

Good clean casting from 5 to 80ft.....no stwitch or spey rods....I dont like them yet but willing to try one day.

Any reviews or recommendations plse.
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  #76  
Old 04-23-2013, 07:08 PM
Roscoe Roscoe is offline
 
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I got a 10' 8wt g.loomis nrx with airflo 40+ Its a sweet setup that does everything a guy could want. Ive been playing with it a bit on the bow doing single hand spey casts getting ready to hook into some atlantic salmon this fall. For a 10' rod it sure is light. It has plenty of power, great control, very accurate and handles sinktips beautifully.
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  #77  
Old 04-23-2013, 07:26 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Thanks Roscoe and good luck with the chinooks....They are tonnes o fun.
Just wasnt sure if an 8wt was enough to handle the chinooks.

That is exactly what I want the rod for.....and for the bigger Steelies on the Skeena this season.
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  #78  
Old 04-23-2013, 07:42 PM
Pudelpointer Pudelpointer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Thanks Roscoe and good luck with the chinooks....They are tonnes o fun.
Just wasnt sure if an 8wt was enough to handle the chinooks.

That is exactly what I want the rod for.....and for the bigger Steelies on the Skeena this season.
Not sure if anyone said it or not, but an 8 WT is in NO WAY appropriate for any chinooks, except Jacks. It will likely do fine for steelhead, but remember that Skeena steelies are often over 20lbs. My biggest was a ~24lb buck on the Bulkley I landed on a 10ft 8wt RPL+, but it was a long, long fight.

Hooked a few chinook with that rod, but was unable to land a single one (all the chinook were 30lbs or bigger). Maybe in a river where the chinooks averaged 20lbs or so.... don't know anywhere that the average is that small.

I would highly recommend a 10wt if chinook are being targeted, or a 9WT with LOTS of backbone.
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  #79  
Old 04-23-2013, 07:47 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Not sure if anyone said it or not, but an 8 WT is in NO WAY appropriate for any chinooks, except Jacks. It will likely do fine for steelhead, but remember that Skeena steelies are often over 20lbs. My biggest was a ~24lb buck on the Bulkley I landed on a 10ft 8wt RPL+, but it was a long, long fight.

Hooked a few chinook with that rod, but was unable to land a single one (all the chinook were 30lbs or bigger). Maybe in a river where the chinooks averaged 20lbs or so.... don't know anywhere that the average is that small.

I would highly recommend a 10wt if chinook are being targeted, or a 9WT with LOTS of backbone.
PHEW....thanks

And btw...20lbs is average in the Vedder River in Chilliwack...just so you know
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:50 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Redington Pursuit series....How would you rate them?

They are at a pretty good point for sure but what about their quality?
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  #81  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:33 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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I have a red fly 2 which is now the purist. it is a good rod for the price and have been told by a few different fly shops if you are in for a new rod it is one of the better ones at that price point. I love mine and it has a lifetime warranty
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  #82  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Redington Pursuit series....How would you rate them?

They are at a pretty good point for sure but what about their quality?
They are an OK rod for the price, but the quality of components in the older series is nicer IMO. You should be able to get a lot more rod for a little more or even less money.

The discontinued Classic Trout is medium by today's standards but is still considered by many to be one of the best values in a dry fly rod. A Google search will give you lots of info.

The CPS is another classic rod that is very well rated but I never got a chance to try one.

There are still plenty of RS4s around and these are my favorite Redington rod. There is one on Kijiji right now for $100 in a 5wt. They retailed around $200 and were a great deal at full price. Components are top notch and the action is med fast to fast with very nice feel.

Last year's top of the line Redington, the CPX is a beautiful rod. They were $350ish retail and I see many for $200 and change on clearance. They are very fast action with lots of fish fighting back bone. I also have the new version (Redington Link) and although it does have a nicer action, the components and look of the CPX are nicer. The CPX is not for everyone as it is border line stiff and some find it lacks any feel. I am keeping mine as a back up for my Z-Axis and wouldn't loose a lot of sleep if it was the only rod I had.

I consider any of these rods much nicer that the Pursuit and if you shop around you can find them at a good deal.

The discontinued Sage Flight are a great deal at most retailers if you like fast and the Vantage if you like medium. You should check them out as well.
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  #83  
Old 04-24-2013, 09:29 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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echo make some nice rods around 200$ the carbon and the ion. Both are way nicer than my red fly
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  #84  
Old 04-24-2013, 09:37 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Let me get to the point....

What is a good/great rod for fishing 20lb+ steelies???

What weight and length would you recommend?

There have been a few comments but I would like more please.
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  #85  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:10 AM
Jayhad Jayhad is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Let me get to the point....

What is a good/great rod for fishing 20lb+ steelies???

What weight and length would you recommend?

There have been a few comments but I would like more please.
Sage one 8126

8wt 12'6". or 9wt 12'6"

Great rod for the lower fraser valley rivers
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  #86  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:02 AM
grinr grinr is offline
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Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
I got a 10' 8wt g.loomis nrx with airflo 40+ Its a sweet setup that does everything a guy could want. Ive been playing with it a bit on the bow doing single hand spey casts getting ready to hook into some [B]atlantic salmon[\B]this fall. For a 10' rod it sure is light. It has plenty of power, great control, very accurate and handles sinktips beautifully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Thanks Roscoe and good luck with the chinooks....They are tonnes o fun.
Just wasnt sure if an 8wt was enough to handle the chinooks.

That is exactly what I want the rod for.....and for the bigger Steelies on the Skeena this season.
Ummmmm.....Atlantics are not Chinooks.
That aside,Atlantics to Steelhead is indeed a fair comparison,they are very similar in both size and fight characteristics.That said,a single hand 8wt is plenty of rod for any Atlantic or Steelhead that swims and will comfortably handle Chinooks to 30+ lbs as well.

I'll second Jayhads recommendation for the Sage One.(imagine that Jay....we agree on something,haha )They are beautiful casting rods,although I beleive you were asking about single handers and he suggested the 8wt Spey model,the One 8100-4 is a single hand rocket launcher.

The ONLY concern I would have with an 8wt single for west coast vs. eastcoast salmon/steelhead would be its ability to toss the heavy flies and tips that are commonly used on the west coast any great distance.Not a concern for Atlantics where weighted flies are illegal,and not a concern for an 8wt Spey rod w/Skagit setup,but for that reason alone,if you insist on a single hander,a 9 or even 10 will throw the weight a bit farther and a bit easier.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:14 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Originally Posted by grinr View Post
Ummmmm.....Atlantics are not Chinooks.
That aside,Atlantics to Steelhead is indeed a fair comparison,they are very similar in both size and fight characteristics.That said,a single hand 8wt is plenty of rod for any Atlantic or Steelhead that swims and will comfortably handle Chinooks to 30+ lbs as well.

I'll second Jayhads recommendation for the Sage One.(imagine that Jay....we agree on something,haha )They are beautiful casting rods,although I beleive you were asking about single handers and he suggested the 8wt Spey model,the One 8100-4 is a single hand rocket launcher.

The ONLY concern I would have with an 8wt single for west coast vs. eastcoast salmon/steelhead would be its ability to toss the heavy flies and tips that are commonly used on the west coast any great distance.Not a concern for Atlantics where weighted flies are illegal,and not a concern for an 8wt Spey rod w/Skagit setup,but for that reason alone,if you insist on a single hander,a 9 or even 10 will throw the weight a bit farther and a bit easier.
Thanks grinr
I'm thinking of the Hardy "Uniqua" 8wt for now.....but I have plenty of time to re adjust. 8-10wt is my goal but kinda dig the Hardy, Sage, Winston products.
And yes I know about the Chinook/Atlantic differances....but I just thre the name in there to avoid arguement because it seems alot of people dont know the differance. Semantics again.
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  #88  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:16 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Just got a Hardy "Uniqua" 9'-6", 8wt for less than half the retail price for my Steelheadn in BC and to cut thru this dogarn wind that prevails in AB.

Now I just need a reel to suit the setup....any suggestions???
(Thinking new Sage or vintage Hardy "Sunbeam" at this point)
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  #89  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:32 PM
lannie lannie is online now
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Just got a Hardy "Uniqua" 9'-6", 8wt for less than half the retail price for my Steelheadn in BC and to cut thru this dogarn wind that prevails in AB.

Now I just need a reel to suit the setup....any suggestions???
(Thinking new Sage or vintage Hardy "Sunbeam" at this point)
Going to BC Steelheading, that's Islanders home turf.
Islander for sure.
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  #90  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:34 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Originally Posted by lannie View Post
Going to BC Steelheading, that's Islanders home turf.
Islander for sure.
Yes, thanks for reminding me Lannie...I have been keeping my eye on the Islanders....I'll check into them further.

I actually use a BC made "Kingfisher" centerpin on a Sage 9'-6" river rod when in BC. It's a top notch reel as well.

Last edited by MtnGiant; 04-27-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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