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10-13-2019, 12:06 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
The government is pushing real hard to put it on draw for the province. I know a guy who’s been sitting in on the meetings. You could see it as soon as next year!
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I was talking to a f&w officer a couple of weeks ago ad he asked me my opinion on bighorn Rams going to draw. Along with that was dropping the rules of horn measurement. A ram is a ram. You shoot it and you're happy, register it and done. No more measuring. I added that there should be a 3 ram rule added to that one. Just my opinion. I think draws are coming. Sheep hunting is becoming very popular just like fly fishing. I would be very adamant on any bighorn ram draws coming out that they be random. No priorities handed out. But then a good stream of revenue is selling priority points.
And go....
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10-13-2019, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin
I was talking to a f&w officer a couple of weeks ago ad he asked me my opinion on bighorn Rams going to draw. Along with that was dropping the rules of horn measurement. A ram is a ram. You shoot it and you're happy, register it and done. No more measuring. I added that there should be a 3 ram rule added to that one. Just my opinion. I think draws are coming. Sheep hunting is becoming very popular just like fly fishing. I would be very adamant on any bighorn ram draws coming out that they be random. No priorities handed out. But then a good stream of revenue is selling priority points.
And go....
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They want to reduce harvest numbers from 200 to 25 per yr. You do the math say 4300 tags sold at $63 a tag to draw application of $3.50 a draw. So let's reduce resident hunting opportunity further.
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10-13-2019, 04:41 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 208
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hopefully if they make it draw only they also re-instate grizzly bear hunting at the same time.
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10-13-2019, 05:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 1,283
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I've never understood what exactly the problem is, I never agreed with the Full Curl suggestion and going to draw would be as bad imho. If it were ever to come into fruition the outfitters would be absolutely ECSTATIC.
The sheep populations are stable. We have a vast tract of protection in the parks. Mature rams are there for those who are willing to put the work in to get to the out of the way areas and there are areas where the closer to legal rams get picked over pretty hard but somehow keep producing year after year after year. We literally live in a sheep utopia, we have opportunity to hunt and opportunity to harvest.
I don't consider myself well connected in the sheep world at all but this year has seemed to be especially good for a lot of great mature rams going down. Really makes me shake my head and wonder what exactly those who'd like to shake the system up are fighting for. I don't think they even know anymore.
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10-14-2019, 07:10 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
This is exactly right on the money The number of MATURE RAMS harvested has been the same for 40 yrs In that time the pop has grown to 4 times or more the # of sheep province wide That is the sign of a population that is healthy And yes there appears to be a few biologists that are willing to lie and cheat to get their way I aintain that the real wildlife problem that we are experiencing in Alberta is created by those few people and as tax payers we should have say as to whether they have jobs in the future
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And Im sure you can verify your numbers and defend your conclusion on the health of the herd.
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10-14-2019, 08:10 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
This is exactly right on the money The number of MATURE RAMS harvested has been the same for 40 yrs In that time the pop has grown to 4 times or more the # of sheep province wide That is the sign of a population that is healthy And yes there appears to be a few biologists that are willing to lie and cheat to get their way I aintain that the real wildlife problem that we are experiencing in Alberta is created by those few people and as tax payers we should have say as to whether they have jobs in the future
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Absolutely Clueless^^^^, back that up bud. I bet you can't.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 09:08 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Absolutely Clueless^^^^, back that up bud. I bet you can't.
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The average age of harvested rams is consistently getting older.
This couldn't happen without more Older rams being registered.
That's all the proof that is necessary.
Stop falling for the antihunting propaganda.
Remember now, the genetic harm gang claims that harvesting more older rams PROVES their claim.
In their expert opinion hunters rarely pass up a legal ram and all rams are susceptible to being killed every year, so these older rams must be growing slower and just became legal before being killed.
The genetic harm gang is playing all angles to implement their agenda.
Shoot a young ram, you killed a ram before it could breed (despite absolute evidence that rams <7 impregnate at least 40% of the ewes), and this must not be allowed.
Shoot an old ram, you killed a ram that was a slow grower due to hunting induced genetic selection and is proof that there is a problem.
In their minds and argument to the government, killing young or old rams is evidence that sheep are in trouble and hunting must be curtailed.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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10-14-2019, 09:12 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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yes ,the confirmation is in the gov`t stats
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10-14-2019, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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BDUB ,you and I have squared off on this crap before and it is you that is clueless. The gov`t stats show that way back when we were down to 1700 animals in this province and today there is mopre then 13000. 1/2 of which are in parks where they are totally protected . Generic alteration my ass. The problem we hacve is that far too many people are kissing the bio`s asses. WE DO NEED A CHANGE but in management not regulation
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10-14-2019, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
BDUB ,you and I have squared off on this crap before and it is you that is clueless. The gov`t stats show that way back when we were down to 1700 animals in this province and today there is mopre then 13000. 1/2 of which are in parks where they are totally protected . Generic alteration my ass. The problem we hacve is that far too many people are kissing the bio`s asses. WE DO NEED A CHANGE but in management not regulation
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Yeah I figured. Like I said before you have zero clue. Show me your data.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Yeah I figured. Like I said before you have zero clue. Show me your data.
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Any data to back up your opinions?
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Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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10-14-2019, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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Plenty of data . go to the 1993 Alta. Bighorn management plan . There it is noted that from 18001860 there was an estimated 10,000 sheep in Alberta that went down to 1500 animals due mostly to lungworm by 1950. By 1993 the pop.was estimated to be 5,500 outside of the parks . In 2008 gov`t estimate was 11,100 animals in all of Alberta and the 2011 estimate was 5800 animals on public land and a further 6,800 in the three parks . That definately describes a pop. that is healthy . In 100 yrs we have gone from 10,000 to 13000. Describe to me in anything but LIBERAL what the problem might be
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10-14-2019, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
This is exactly right on the money The number of MATURE RAMS harvested has been the same for 40 yrs In that time the pop has grown to 4 times or more the # of sheep province wide That is the sign of a population that is healthy And yes there appears to be a few biologists that are willing to lie and cheat to get their way I aintain that the real wildlife problem that we are experiencing in Alberta is created by those few people and as tax payers we should have say as to whether they have jobs in the future
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For the love of christ!
The harvest has not been the same for the past 40 years and at the same the pop has not increased by 4 times. If it had why hasn't the harvest increased by more th...
Forget it!
If there is no problem push for status quo.
If there is push for incremental shifts INCLUDING a full curl rule before a draw.
Just try not to fubar this for everyone.
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10-14-2019, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
Any data to back up your opinions?
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Go back and dig it up the data I posted on the numerous threads on this very topic. I’ve got better things to do than to dig it up again. It’s tiring reading all the bs that gets passed of as fact every time this topic comes up and they can’t be bothered to post a dam thing to support it.
No the harvest has not remained the same in the last 40 years, nor has the population increased 4x. Anyone can go look and find that information in about 2 minutes. Its just complete baloney, so sorry if I hurt anyones feelers.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 04:50 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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sounds like you are the one with hurt feelings LOL
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10-14-2019, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
sounds like you are the one with hurt feelings LOL
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Nope. Just tired of guys who are full of it.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 05:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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And I am tired of hearing from dipsticks that cannot read what the reports that are available state . The harvest has been 15-235 Rams since the 70`s Guess what ,that is 50 yrs and the population has grown by more then 4 times since then YOU go find the facts and learn something besides your holier then thou BS
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10-14-2019, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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THAT 15-235 SHOULD BE 135-335 (STICKY KEYS) but ALSO FOR ALL THE DOUBTERS GOOGLE UP THE 1993 MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR BIGHORNSHEEP IN ALBERTA .GO TO PAGE 21 OF THAT DOCUMENT AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF .The harvest has not changed and the pop has increased as stated
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10-14-2019, 05:36 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: West Central Alberta/Costa Rica
Posts: 1,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
And I am tired of hearing from dipsticks that cannot read what the reports that are available state . The harvest has been 15-235 Rams since the 70`s Guess what ,that is 50 yrs and the population has grown by more then 4 times since then YOU go find the facts and learn something besides your holier then thou BS
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Greg, don't call people dipsticks. Maybe you would like to tell the AO sheep hunters how many short sheep you and Corey were charged with and convicted
guiding non resident hunters when you had Chungo Creek Outfitters. That's before the "new jig". Don't throw stones in a glass house!!
Last edited by Jim Blake; 10-14-2019 at 05:41 PM.
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10-14-2019, 05:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
And I am tired of hearing from dipsticks that cannot read what the reports that are available state . The harvest has been 15-235 Rams since the 70`s Guess what ,that is 50 yrs and the population has grown by more then 4 times since then YOU go find the facts and learn something besides your holier then thou BS
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So the population has quadrupled in 40 years according to your claims? And the ram harvest has remained the same as well for 40 years? Both claims from your post.
Getting back back onto topic about the new jig. How do the outfitters think about it. And what happens when an outfitters client shoots a short sheep. I am sure it happens but I wonder what the consequences are for the client or outfitter. Anyone?
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Does that look like the harvest has remained the same? Anyone
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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Those are not my claims .Those should be FACT based on what our wildlife managers have published . If you can believe what they are saying then you will also conceed that our current sheep population is no where else but in a healthy condition . It also confirms that current regulation does not need to be altered . In 1915 there was 400 licences and 200 sheep were harvested . In 2018 there was 4000 licences and 200 sheep were harvested . The regulations are working and do not need to be changed . As for the reduction in success rate for hunters I have no answer other then maybe we need better hunters . The population of sheep is great and so is the quality . As for this jig thing ,it likely works just fine if used correctly ,the problem I see is the use of it is not consistant . The old square worked just fine as well .
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10-14-2019, 05:58 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
THAT 15-235 SHOULD BE 135-335 (STICKY KEYS) but ALSO FOR ALL THE DOUBTERS GOOGLE UP THE 1993 MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR BIGHORNSHEEP IN ALBERTA .GO TO PAGE 21 OF THAT DOCUMENT AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF .The harvest has not changed and the pop has increased as stated
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I’ll save everyone some time.
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/8106...un25-2015a.pdf
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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10-14-2019, 05:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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sure does
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10-14-2019, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
So the population has quadrupled in 40 years according to your claims? And the ram harvest has remained the same as well for 40 years? Both claims from your post.
Getting back back onto topic about the new jig. How do the outfitters think about it. And what happens when an outfitters client shoots a short sheep. I am sure it happens but I wonder what the consequences are for the client or outfitter. Anyone?
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Usually they rock pile them.
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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10-14-2019, 07:56 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 560
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If I shoot the kind of ram I want this year and it’s some old big broomed off ram that is barely legal but legal based on the regulations. I will be handcuffing myself to them and they can put it and me in the jig. Lmao.
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10-14-2019, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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And that needs to be the message to the new gov`t . We do not want red tape and they will figure out ways to eliminate it. This jig thing is an NDP idea that has only increased red tape and expense. Three days notice to get an appointment ,IF you are lucky in one case I know of 7 days was not enough and the whole concept of officers and bio`s locking themselves into seclusion is something that only happens in Russia. Plus one office using the eye ball and a different office using the front of the eye socket and no office using what the actual regulation states as the method is all BIZZARRE. Needs to be reviewed for sanity for sure
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10-14-2019, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
Those are not my claims .Those should be FACT based on what our wildlife managers have published . If you can believe what they are saying then you will also conceed that our current sheep population is no where else but in a healthy condition . It also confirms that current regulation does not need to be altered . In 1915 there was 400 licences and 200 sheep were harvested . In 2018 there was 4000 licences and 200 sheep were harvested . The regulations are working and do not need to be changed . As for the reduction in success rate for hunters I have no answer other then maybe we need better hunters . The population of sheep is great and so is the quality . As for this jig thing ,it likely works just fine if used correctly ,the problem I see is the use of it is not consistant . The old square worked just fine as well .
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What in the hell are you talking about, maybe you should go back and read those pages again.
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10-14-2019, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justahunter
And that needs to be the message to the new gov`t . We do not want red tape and they will figure out ways to eliminate it. This jig thing is an NDP idea that has only increased red tape and expense. Three days notice to get an appointment ,IF you are lucky in one case I know of 7 days was not enough and the whole concept of officers and bio`s locking themselves into seclusion is something that only happens in Russia. Plus one office using the eye ball and a different office using the front of the eye socket and no office using what the actual regulation states as the method is all BIZZARRE. Needs to be reviewed for sanity for sure
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You are something, the jig is a tool demanded by all sides in this debate so that we can finally get robust consistant data with the added bonus of having a very specific means to determine a legal ram. If there are some practical growing pain issues we should all be demanding a patient firm stance on its use and we should allstill be very careful pulling the trigger on close sheep, like the one with pics in this thread. This is necessary red tape and if you're so dense to not realize this you should step back and stop showing your ignorance.
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10-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
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sounds like you may have been the inventor of this thing. I have no problem with the jig. What seems to be a problem is that prior to this invention you could get a sheep registered within one or two days of when you came out of the mountains . Now you can expect 3 10 days wait time . This is NOT progress . This is RED TAPE.
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