Pellet pistols for grouse.

[Unregistered user]

Is it legal to use in Alberta? If so, which gives best bang for the buck?

[Little Red Man]

This has been brought up in the past, and although technically, the regs state you cannot hunt game birds with a pistol, there seems to be some question of what exactly the definition of a pistol is. For instance, although a pellet "pistol" has the word in it, does it actually meet the definition as referenced in the regs (eg. is a "pistol" according to the regs, some such device that has the ability to shoot a projectile at "x" fps)? I have asked this question in the past to few folks, and no one seems to know for certain.

Having said that, gauging from the responses in other threads on this topic, it sounds like quite a few folks pack a pellet pistol to use on grouse when big game hunting.

Not sure about what brand is best, but I would look for one that shoots close to 400 fps. I think that most of these usually run about 200 bucks.

[Dick284]

How about calling your local SRD office and getting their take on the situation.

Seeking advice with possable legal consequneces from a bunch of folks on a public forum is at best a risky proposition.

SRD office numbers are located in the hunting, fishing, and trapping regulations.

[Stinky Coyote]

yeah, one assumes that 'pistol' is being referred to as a 'firearm' in the regs and these pellet pistols certainly don't make the firearm definition at all...i can't remember if i ever heard the final answer on this either?...

[Stinky Coyote]

did some searching and found this link about a previous discussion....seems Harold (Pioneer2) was pretty confident (phoned fish & feathers himself?) that they were legal in Alberta....see the last post....it was never challenged...

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=pistol

i guess a guy should phone for himself to be sure...

[Coreyh]

I called the Edmonton SRD office. The officer wasn't 100% sure of the answer, so he checked with his partner. The reply was, "...both my partner and I agree that if it shoot less than 500 fps, it's ok..."

I went out and got a Sheridan Benjamin .22 cal pump. It works great. I've been popping chickens with it for two years while deer hunting.

[Little Red Man]

Originally Posted by Dick284

How about calling your local SRD office and getting their take on the situation.

Seeking advice with possible legal consequences from a bunch of folks on a public forum is at best a risky proposition.

SRD office numbers are located in the hunting, fishing, and trapping regulations.

Hey Dick,

Been down this road before as well. I am certainly NOT tying to poop on SRD (as I know their jobs are probably at time thankless), but I have asked them questions in the past and gotten either incorrect information or a simple "I dunno". Further, I am not sure if anyone else has attempted to contact them in the past, but I have had a VERY difficult time actually getting to speak to a live body.

Unfortunately, for "tricky" questions such as this, there does not seem to be an escalation point beyond a local SRD office (at least that I am aware of; perhaps you have a suggestion?).

Having said that, I do agree with you; taking legal advice off of a forum is not good practice (although I suspect it happens all the time!).

[tallguy]

Legal or not, Lord help if a 'concerned citezen' saw you walking out of the bush with a realistic looking semi in your hand.

[Grizzly Adams]

Seems like a pain to pack that much weight, just to snuff a grouse. What's wrong with a slingshot? Effective range is about the same and it's probably more lethal
Grizz

[moosemad]

Like Grizz says, a sling shot is legal. So is a air gun under 500 FPS. Got mine at Can Tire for under 100 bucks, works great but be discreet don't wave it around. If you get one get the air pump model not the co2, when they get low on gas they get week. The air is one pump and your there.

[duffy4]

I talked to a F&W enforcement officer the other day about this. At first he said, as long as it was under 500 fps then it wasn't a firearm and ok. Then I pointed out that in the regulations it just saya "revolver or pistol" and that is not defined anywhere with refrence to muzzle velocity. He said Ummmmm good point, I'll check with the fellow in Edmonton who is responsiblen for sorting out these kinds of confusing regulation interpretations.

Robin in Rocky

[davem]

I have been wondering about this question as well. Seems like a good argument against the antis who say that there is no use for handguns, the only reason is that the law doesn’t allow for their to be a use. Seems like a ..22 pistol would be ideal. Since that is never gonna happen I was debating getting a pellet pistol, or maybe a .45/70 and carrying some .410 shells. A sling shot seems like a good idea, nice and quiet, light and cheap, plus I still have the one I got for Christmas at age 12. I was looking at westjets rules just yesterday however and found it very unusual that you cannot fly with a slingshot in your checked baggage, handguns, bows, pellet guns, rifles, spearguns are all allowed slingshots however are not permitted. Guess they are more dangerous than I thought, guess that puts them out of consideration for this falls trip to Alberta. Too bad, maybe I will get that Sheridan .22 pellet pistol. How far is it accurate, do you have to take headshots or can you drop them with a body shot?

Thanks

Dave

[Stinky Coyote]

if you'll pack that benjamin pump around and you happen to like nice toys then consider one of these weihrauch HW45's...it is the king of air pistols and has been so since the 1980's....no pumping, no co2's.....long live the spring piston...

real world honest 400 plus fps with moderate weighted pellets!...i've done well on small critters with this hand cannon...the trigger is amazing, excellent iron sights and does well with a red dot sight as well, they have true glow sights now so you kind of get a red dot now anyhow, its just lined up between two yellow dots...pretty sweet to not have to carry the extra weight of the red dot....

get the benjamin and you get a horrible heavy skinny blade trigger to match its tiny thin blade front sight and the rear sight is equally as bad, i had a scoped one years ago and it had the power and it was accurate but could never go back after owning an HW45...not having to pump or deal with co2's is nice, pistol and pellets and away you go with a super accurate and powerful pistol with real sights and a real trigger (i adjust mine to 2.0 lbs even and its perfect for me but i've gone to 1 1/4 lb and just surprised me too much, not sure where the limit is)

learn about the HW45 here...

http://my.tbaytel.net/~coopers@tbaytel.net/HW45Review/

And view official webpage here...click on products and then pistols

http://www.weihrauch-sport.de/englis...te/e_index.htm

[MuleyMad]

Keep in mind as well that there are a number of sections under the criminal code pertaining to replica type firearms and pellet guns can fall under that definition. Something to do with a replica or imitation of a gun dangerous to the public good.

Some kids got themselves into a lot of trouble near Calgary when they were shooting off pellet guns that looked like the real thing. Damn near got themselves shot by my friend on the city police.

You come walking out of the bush with a "pistol" in your hands and come across a police officer all bets are off.

Not to mention if you go through a check stop and it's seen in the vehicle.

Something to keep in mind.

[Stinky Coyote]

I forgot to mention the Alberta dealer of those Weihrauch pistols...

http://www.canada-shops.com/Stores/s...c134248.2.html

Nice couple, they ship them to your door. This i know first hand. The HW40 is a great plinker and would probably do the grouse in with head shots but i know the HW45 has enough power to hit em in the middle.

[Little Red Man]

Originally Posted by duffy4

I talked to a F&W enforcement officer the other day about this. At first he said, as long as it was under 500 fps then it wasn't a firearm and ok. Then I pointed out that in the regulations it just saya "revolver or pistol" and that is not defined anywhere with refrence to muzzle velocity. He said Ummmmm good point, I'll check with the fellow in Edmonton who is responsiblen for sorting out these kinds of confusing regulation interpretations.

Robin in Rocky

Thanks Duffy, let us know what you come up with. Good to have friends in the know, eh?

[Coreyh]

Originally Posted by davem

I have been wondering about this question as well. Seems like a good argument against the antis who say that there is no use for handguns, the only reason is that the law doesn’t allow for their to be a use. Seems like a ..22 pistol would be ideal. Since that is never gonna happen I was debating getting a pellet pistol, or maybe a .45/70 and carrying some .410 shells. A sling shot seems like a good idea, nice and quiet, light and cheap, plus I still have the one I got for Christmas at age 12. I was looking at westjets rules just yesterday however and found it very unusual that you cannot fly with a slingshot in your checked baggage, handguns, bows, pellet guns, rifles, spearguns are all allowed slingshots however are not permitted. Guess they are more dangerous than I thought, guess that puts them out of consideration for this falls trip to Alberta. Too bad, maybe I will get that Sheridan .22 pellet pistol. How far is it accurate, do you have to take headshots or can you drop them with a body shot?

Thanks

Dave

I have shot them out to about 30 feet(maybe more...?). It's accurate enough that I've made many head shots. You can take a front or a backside body shot and it will work fine. Last fall I shot one that was running(no head shot avail) broadside to me so I shot him right in his side. It sounded like an opened wet towel hitting a wall, and he flew away. I guess that means it won't necessarily penetrate or break a wing.
This is it here:

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Benjami..._p/bnjhb22.htm

[Unregistered user]

I have contacted SRD for the real deal on this as no-one here or elsewhere seems to know for sure. I'll post their answer when I get it.

[Rocks]

Not sure about the pellet pistols. While big game hunting I pack my kid's Henry minibolt .22 occasionally along with my rifle, but for long horseback or backpack trips my buddy got me a "Hammond gamegetter", it's a shell to fit your gun, with lead balls and 22 blanks. Just pop it in your big game rifle and shoot, gotta reload after every shot. Comes with a die to size the lead pellets. We shot a bunch of chickens with them last fall.

[catnthehat]

The new Chief prosecutor for the crown is a member of our range and rents a room from Silverado.
I"ll get the lowdown on the criminal code from him.
I also know a higher up member of the F&W devision, and get the Alberta hunting opinion from him.
That should do it.
Cat

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The new Chief prosecutor for the crown is a member of our range and rents a room from Silverado.
I"ll get the lowdown on the criminal code from him.
I also know a higher up member of the F&W devision, and get the Alberta hunting opinion from him.
That should do it.
Cat

Awesome.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Rocks

Not sure about the pellet pistols. While big game hunting I pack my kid's Henry minibolt .22 occasionally along with my rifle, but for long horseback or backpack trips my buddy got me a "Hammond gamegetter", it's a shell to fit your gun, with lead balls and 22 blanks. Just pop it in your big game rifle and shoot, gotta reload after every shot. Comes with a die to size the lead pellets. We shot a bunch of chickens with them last fall.

These look real slick, thanx for posting.

[Pioneer2]

Get a Crosman 2240 .22 CO2 @ 460fps can be modded to just under 500fps so it's legal and your good to go.You can't use it in BC but can in AB and Ont .Not sure about the rest of the country .A non firearm becames a firearm when used to commit a crime punishment wise.No FAC is required to own or purchase this.Shoulder stocks are available ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS in the 50's pistols could be used for hunting in ONT.............Harold

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Get a Crosman 2240 .22 CO2 @ 460fps can be modded to just under 500fps so it's legal and your good to go.You can't use it in BC but can in AB and Ont .Not sure about the rest of the country .A non firearm becames a firearm when used to commit a crime punishment wise.No FAC is required to own or purchase this.Shoulder stocks are available ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS in the 50's pistols could be used for hunting in ONT.............Harold

However, the Alberta regulations state that is illegal to hunt with a revolver or pistol.
now, this is the sticky part as far as my legal friend goes.
he told me that it is not illegal as far as under 500FPS goes, BUT it states that a REVOLVER OR PISTOL is illegal to use, and although they are under 500FPS and not considered firearms under the criminal code, they are under the letter of the law as far as Alberta hunting regulations go.

BUT if a case such as this EVER came in front of him, he wouyld throw it out as fast as he could, because it is not worth the time to harras a sportsman for something like that that!

Still waiting for my Warden buddy to answer, but I'm sure he will be of the same ilk!

Cat

[Unregistered user]

Thanx Cat, as we see, it wasn't such a dumb question after all.

[catnthehat]

I know there are a few hunters up here that use them, it is quite common I think, but most of the guys that hunt with quads tend to carry a .22 or shotgun and a big game rifle with them.
Cat

[Pioneer2]

There is a smith in Red Deer that has made up 2240's for Game Wardens [after stopping him while hunting]and police officers...........................Harold*They make a .50 cal Dragon that shoots a 200gr pellet at 600fps but we can't hunt deer with them in AB and filled with scuba tank[popular with the wealthy since the 1600's]

[Stinky Coyote]

Yup, high end airguns have been around for a long long time....longer than powder stuff. I believe Napoleon used to have anyone caught with an airgun killed on site as they were efficient for the snipers because they couldn't be quickly found due to the lack of smoke from a powder gun. Plus the snipers had guns that had butt stock reservoirs that held enough air they could shoot about 8 or 9 of the big cal lead balls in short order as compared to the powder stuff of the day....they were very efficient killers in those times.

They are costly to make and typically the quality air powered stuff with serious power is very expensive....powder stuff much more cost efficient but to some, not near as much fun.

I remember reading about a guy who killed a cow elk with an airgun as one of his larger quarry....not in this province obviously but somewhere in the states where it was legal. You can take airguns as far as you want to go in terms of quality, power and price. There are lots of guys out there hunting a lot of bigger critters with air power these days, start googling to learn more if it interests you.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I know there are a few hunters up here that use them, it is quite common I think, but most of the guys that hunt with quads tend to carry a .22 or shotgun and a big game rifle with them.
Cat

I suppose, but aren't you allowed to hunt rabbits year round in Alberta and not allowed to carry firearms between sunrise/noon (for on the quad)...so the airgun at under 500 fps could still be carried at all times and taken advantage of when the odd bunny is spotted?

[Pioneer2]

The Austrian Army used large caliber air rifles that had resivoirs in the butstock in the 1600's.They were filled with a bicycle type hand pump and fully charge spare butstocks were carried in their packsacks to reload.There was not powder signature to give away the shooters position and they decimated the oposition with hundreds of balls.The well to do hunted boar and Red Deer stag with these as well..................Harold