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10-27-2020, 12:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 764
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is going to Ackley Improved worth it?
I have a beautiful rifle built on a mauser action in .257 roberts.
Would I need to replace to barrel to go AI and is the investment in a quality gunsmith worth the gains ?
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10-27-2020, 01:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,625
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your not gaining much in performance....but if you want/need a wildcat then so be it....reamer...no barrel replacement...the investment in a quality gunsmith is always a must!
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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10-27-2020, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,841
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You will gain approx 100-150 FPS
Case stretching is almost non existent.
Down side is getting them to feed reliably. Suggest trying some dummy rounds. Usually requires fiddling with receiver and if not done properly ruins feeding . Once done can’t go back
No need to replace barrel just set back one thread and ream to improved chamber
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10-27-2020, 01:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East Kootenays, BC
Posts: 1,169
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The very wise Dean2 would warn you that AI cartridges can have feeding issues that their parent cartridge does not have...something to think about for a small gain of +100-150fps. Oops, I see fps typed faster than me.
If your rifle is any sort of classic piece you will reduce its value by modifying it.
Last edited by brewster29; 10-27-2020 at 01:34 PM.
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10-27-2020, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Suggest you don't,
As others have mentioned there is a minimal gain, I recall a couple articles (Kenny Jarrett as I recall) where PO Ackley himself felt the 280 AI was the only one that really was worthwhile,
If you have to have one (I know the feeling as I have a 280 AI) I suggest getting a Remington donor action, generally easy to find and relatively cheap and getting it rebarelled, more money but you wont regret changing your rifle
Whatever you choose good luck and have fun,
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10-27-2020, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,721
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I have a 7-08AI and likely the gains aren't 'worth it' but I enjoy it. Its a bit different, the case life is great without the need to trim much at all. A bit of extra ability to load, though currently the rifle is my wife's and loaded down to below 7-08 max loads anyways.
In the end its probably tough to justify being 'worth it' but I'd likely do it again just as a bit of a fun thing to play with.
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10-27-2020, 02:57 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 819
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Ackley improved alterations that show reasonable gains from what I have experienced are. 250 - 3000 Savage, 7 X 57 Mauser and the 30-30 Winchester, the most noticeable improvement is the longer case life as trimming is all but eliminated when full length sizing. Velocity gains in the three mentioned chamberings can vary significantly depending on barrel length.
I would however caution anyone considering the improved chambering in a classic old rifle that the increase in velocity is offset by the devaluation of a nice old rifle. But that will never stop the hot-rodder's from doing what they do. D.H.
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10-27-2020, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 32
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I personally wouldn’t bother, but some people want to squeeze out every FPS possible from their cartridges. If your chasing velocity and want something to do all the power to ya!
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10-28-2020, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 764
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Thanks for the great input everyone !
I will not be going forward with it.
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10-28-2020, 06:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openfire
Thanks for the great input everyone !
I will not be going forward with it.
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Good decision. The guys have u excellent advice.
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10-28-2020, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,333
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will help
If you ever decide to sell it to leave it as is.
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10-28-2020, 07:57 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Having a 280AI built as we speak.
So looking forward to it!
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10-28-2020, 09:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntingfamily
Having a 280AI built as we speak.
So looking forward to it!
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I have one and it works well with 150gr Nosler LRAB's
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When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspense.
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10-28-2020, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
I have one and it works well with 150gr Nosler LRAB's
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Good to know. I bought a box of the regular 150 AB's to try.
Also have a box or 2 of 140 ttsx...
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10-29-2020, 12:42 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,580
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choices
lads
I see lots of advice for the OP, I don't see anyone who has owned a 257 AI helping this fellow make a decision about his rifle. i had a converted Win model 70 XTR in AI, was a fantastic shooting rifle. loved 110gr Accubonds and a healthy dose of IMR 4350...
Next to my 25-06 Sako and my 250 Savage it was a fabulous rifle. ...FS
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10-29-2020, 12:45 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Henry
Ackley improved alterations that show reasonable gains from what I have experienced are. 250 - 3000 Savage, 7 X 57 Mauser and the 30-30 Winchester, the most noticeable improvement is the longer case life as trimming is all but eliminated when full length sizing. Velocity gains in the three mentioned chamberings can vary significantly depending on barrel length.
I would however caution anyone considering the improved chambering in a classic old rifle that the increase in velocity is offset by the devaluation of a nice old rifle. But that will never stop the hot-rodder's from doing what they do. D.H.
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Interesting to note the 257 is on a 7x57 parent case.......
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10-29-2020, 04:28 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,333
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so is
The 6mm Rem
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10-29-2020, 04:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,333
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history repeats itself
The AI's attempt to move up a caliber in performance ie a 250AI becomes a 257 Roberts,the Roberts becomes a 25-06 the 25-06 becomes a 257 WBY same as the other caliber progressions.You see the same trends in shotguns lengthening shell length to increase payloads.Now a 3" 28ga ?I wanna be a 20 ga? The 12ga 3 1/2" impersonating the 10ga etc.To each their own but it becomes redundant at some point IMO.
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10-29-2020, 07:54 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer2
The AI's attempt to move up a caliber in performance ie a 250AI becomes a 257 Roberts,the Roberts becomes a 25-06 the 25-06 becomes a 257 WBY same as the other caliber progressions.You see the same trends in shotguns lengthening shell length to increase payloads.Now a 3" 28ga ?I wanna be a 20 ga? The 12ga 3 1/2" impersonating the 10ga etc.To each their own but it becomes redundant at some point IMO.
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Somecgeads would explode if those guys actually knew what they were running for pressure their favorite load was actually run through a pressure gun!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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10-29-2020, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 2,515
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Not sure I’d go AI. Custom hand loads can get you close. Keeping your gun original has its pluses too.
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Be sure of your target and what lies beyond.
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10-29-2020, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Somecgeads would explode if those guys actually knew what they were running for pressure their favorite load was actually run through a pressure gun!
Cat
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Agreed. If a guy reads the Ackley books you will quickly realise just how many guns he blew up over the years. You will also find a lot of his published loads in those books are way higher powder and velocity than any load data that is pressure tested like Hodgdon. A lot of Ackleys extra performance came from exceeding normal pressure limits, more so than the change in case shape. On top of the poor feeding, these were the forerunner to the short mags that also don't feed well, the excess pressure levels many load AI to, they also suffer from lousy resale. All in all, there are far better options than to AI something.
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10-29-2020, 09:55 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,333
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except
The Arisakas 38/97 even Ackley couldn't manage to wreck them.
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10-29-2020, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,333
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correction
38 +99 Arisaka
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10-29-2020, 01:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 819
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Ackley's manuals are a must read for sure, not positive they are still in print though. There was no love lost between P.O.Ackley and Rocky Gibbs by the sound of things. D.H.
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10-29-2020, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,252
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I have a 22-250 AI and neither the targets or the gophers, know the difference... IF this target rifle where a regular old 22-250..... It would have been sold a dozen times over...As an AI ..not so much... most people look at you like you have 3 eyes when you talk about AI.... and resale.
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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10-29-2020, 03:16 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2
Agreed. If a guy reads the Ackley books you will quickly realise just how many guns he blew up over the years. You will also find a lot of his published loads in those books are way higher powder and velocity than any load data that is pressure tested like Hodgdon. A lot of Ackleys extra performance came from exceeding normal pressure limits, more so than the change in case shape. On top of the poor feeding, these were the forerunner to the short mags that also don't feed well, the excess pressure levels many load AI to, they also suffer from lousy resale. All in all, there are far better options than to AI something.
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we are not talking about every single ackley ever made, we are talking about 1 cartridge that worked, Fed, and shot very well for me. Chances are good it will feed and shoot well for another person.....FS
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10-29-2020, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,841
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The ackley cartridges are good. Just be mindful of the fact that different actions will require a slight amount of “ tweeking” ,some more than others , that being the case you want to have someone that has experience with it .
I have had several ackleys and wildcats over the years , current shoot 257 ackley and 6mm ackley
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10-29-2020, 07:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,524
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I shoot the 25-06ai and it doesn’t have the dreaded and bemoaned feeding issues. The reason why I did it is I wanted to take on a new challenge of learning to fire form brass and tinker my way through the other ackley experiences good and bad. For all the guys saying you could just get the next rifle higher 25 Weatherby in my case, sure you could just like you could give up hunting and buy beef at the store. Sometimes it’s fun to tinker and learn new skills if you want an ackley just go get one and enjoy the learning curve life is to short for bland white bread everyday.
I know for sure having an ackley has taught me a lot about reloading and firearms modification and I have become far more skilled on the work bench because of it.
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10-29-2020, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious
I shoot the 25-06ai and it doesn’t have the dreaded and bemoaned feeding issues. The reason why I did it is I wanted to take on a new challenge of learning to fire form brass and tinker my way through the other ackley experiences good and bad. For all the guys saying you could just get the next rifle higher 25 Weatherby in my case, sure you could just like you could give up hunting and buy beef at the store. Sometimes it’s fun to tinker and learn new skills if you want an ackley just go get one and enjoy the learning curve life is to short for bland white bread everyday.
I know for sure having an ackley has taught me a lot about reloading and firearms modification and I have become far more skilled on the work bench because of it.
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And this is why I got my one and only Ackley 280ai.
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10-29-2020, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Near Drumheller
Posts: 6,766
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Never had any desire to own one, been 30+ yrs or so since I read it, still have the book. One constant thing I see on AI cartridges, is that damned few of them actually do anything much in the way of improving performance relative to the claims Ackley made. I wonder if the Epps improved cartridges were really any better? People love to tinker, for sure, cartridges are a prime example, we have Ackley, Epps, Howell, and I don't know how many others out there, some of the newer ones are based on stuff that was done 40-70 yrs ago, some older than that. Some of the newer powders have changed the scene enough, that "Ackley" performance could, conceivably, often be achieved in the existing cartridge.
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