alberta beef producers proposing pay to play

[expmler]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Do you actually have any idea how any of this actually works? Or are you just spewing garbage intentionally? What correlation is there between acting as a guide and charging hunters to access your land?

You should have been banned from this forum about 12 pages ago

I have heard many times in this thread that pay for access will lead to outfitting.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Do you actually have any idea how any of this actually works? Or are you just spewing garbage intentionally? What correlation is there between acting as a guide and charging hunters to access your land?

You should have been banned from this forum about 12 pages ago

How do you figure that? are you not a guide of some kind?
I think he's been very open about his position and has not made derogatory comments as some have. Right or wrong he's just a guy asking a opinion that you think is gospel. Maybe read the post fully and might help you understand.

[JRsMav]

Youre completely off track. Once again, do some research on how it all has ended south of the border. Are you actually willing to watch the hunting community die a quick death because a select few, like yourself, think with your check book? Your tunnel vision astounds me. Outfitting is the last concern. My son having to book a blind on public marsh twice a season and never being able to afford to hunt on a piece of land because the owner charges $500 per day IS the issue.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Don't worry but if I am doing some rec work around Hythe I will drop you a line and buy you a coffee.

[michaelmicallef]

I didn't read through all the posts but you guys do realize the farmers are compensated for crop damage from wildlife through money from hunting licences. Might have been mentioned already.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

How do you figure that? are you not a guide of some kind?
I think he's been very open about his position and has not made derogatory comments as some have. Right or wrong he's just a guy asking a opinion that you think is gospel. Maybe read the post fully and might help you understand.

No im not a guide of some kind. I dont outfit either. I dont make money off of hunting either. What else would you like to know?

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Youre completely off track. Once again, do some research on how it all has ended south of the border. Are you actually willing to watch the hunting community die a quick death because a select few, like yourself, think with your check book? Your tunnel vision astounds me. Outfitting is the last concern. My son having to book a blind on public marsh twice a season and never being able to afford to hunt on a jerks piece of land because he charges $500 per day IS the issue.

Why is your boy paying at all???? Against the law??? But the rest I agree with

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by expmler

I have heard many times in this thread that pay for access will lead to outfitting.

how would charging for access lead to outfitting? Why would it if farming is such a lucrative business?
As a landowner I think the most of us are feeding OUR wildlife. that means yours and mine on the landowners dime. Sure some landowners might charge some might not some don't care.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

I didn't read through all the posts but you guys do realize the farmers are compensated for crop damage from wildlife through money from hunting licences. Might have been mentioned already.

It has been mentioned. A few times. The opposers are side stepping the fact they want to have free reign and be able charge 'market retail'

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Why is your boy paying at all???? Against the law??? But the rest I agree with

I was referring to down south. If you hunt private in many cases you pay per day. Stating the last thing i want to see is how hunting is done in the states

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Youre completely off track. Once again, do some research on how it all has ended south of the border. Are you actually willing to watch the hunting community die a quick death because a select few, like yourself, think with your check book? Your tunnel vision astounds me. Outfitting is the last concern. My son having to book a blind on public marsh twice a season and never being able to afford to hunt on a piece of land because the owner charges $500 per day IS the issue.

Buy your own land. But are you not a guide? Do you get paid for services provided?

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

how would charging for access lead to outfitting? Why would it if farming is such a lucrative business?
As a landowner I think the most of us are feeding OUR wildlife. that means yours and mine on the landowners dime. Sure some landowners might charge some might not some don't care.

Greed and inflation will ruin it all..we can't alow it to,start

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Don't worry but if I am doing some rec work around Hythe I will drop you a line and buy you a coffee.

Lol you bet. If you need cats and hoes give me a call. No hard feelings we just see the same thing from different angles

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Lol you bet. If you need cats and hoes give me a call. No hard feelings we just see the same thing from different angles

I need a hoe asap

[expmler]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Youre completely off track. Once again, do some research on how it all has ended south of the border. Are you actually willing to watch the hunting community die a quick death because a select few, like yourself, think with your check book? Your tunnel vision astounds me. Outfitting is the last concern. My son having to book a blind on public marsh twice a season and never being able to afford to hunt on a piece of land because the owner charges $500 per day IS the issue.

If your son is booking a blind on a public marsh, he is booking it from the gov't. The gov't is providing equal access for all hunters which is what you are demanding.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Lol you bet. If you need cats and hoes give me a call. No hard feelings we just see the same thing from different angles

I will. Always try to use a local or let the landowner put on equip if he knows what he is doing.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by expmler

If your son is booking a blind on a public marsh, he is booking it from the gov't. The gov't is providing equal access for all hunters which is what you are demanding.

Back that up please...i don't get whom his son is booking a public marsh with????

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Greed and inflation will ruin it all..we can't alow it to,start

Agreed but once again it is at the landowners discretion to charge for access. I don't think it'll lead to outfitting. Isn't outfitting a whole other shooting match all together or am I just being naïve?

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by bhguy

I need a hoe asap

trucking would kill ya

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Buy your own land. But are you not a guide? Do you get paid for services provided?

Buy my own land eh? So youre stating that is the way it should be? Unreal. I own land. Ive stated that already. I dont share your views. I beleive in growing our community because the bigger the community the better off our game species, and our heritage sport will be. No, i dont guide. I dont outfit. I host a new tv show. Many of us on this forum have spent years mentoring new hunters and promoting the conservationist and sportsman code of ethics. We have donated countless hours and dollars to maintaining the wonderful opportunities a new outdoorsman is afforded in alberta and western canada. You seem willing to destroy that in one fell swoop. Its upsetting, dissapointing and frankly disgusting.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Back that up please...i don't get whom his son is booking a public marsh with????

Is public land not owned by the gov't. We call it crown land here.

I have friends in Minnesota who do that. They show up at the DNR office in the morning and their names are put in a hat. Names are picked out of the hat and blinds are assigned to the ones that are drawn.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Agreed but once again it is at the landowners discretion to charge for access. I don't think it'll lead to outfitting. Isn't outfitting a whole other shooting match all together or am I just being naïve?

Access will lead to expectations...i pay to access land, show me where the wild life is or why pay you....outfitting/ guiding by definition

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by expmler

Is public land not owned by the gov't. We call it crown land here.

I have friends in Minnesota who do that. They show up at the DNR office in the morning and their names are put in a hat. Names are picked out of the hat and blinds are assigned to the ones that are drawn.

I'm not aware of this here, let alone 500 a day???

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by expmler

If your son is booking a blind on a public marsh, he is booking it from the gov't. The gov't is providing equal access for all hunters which is what you are demanding.

What are you smoking? Im not demanding anything! If a landowner decides that only 1 guy can hunt his land year after that his perrogative and his right! Good on him! However, when cash comes into play, through straight up economics you will eliminate virtually 90% of our hunting community!

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

trucking would kill ya

Typical the guy who delivers the hoe wants a cut

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by expmler

Is public land not owned by the gov't. We call it crown land here.

I have friends in Minnesota who do that. They show up at the DNR office in the morning and their names are put in a hat. Names are picked out of the hat and blinds are assigned to the ones that are drawn.

And every single one of your friends in minny curse the US system i can promise you. Youre actually saying that the US system is the best for our wildlife resources. This is sickening. You need to be banned as you share no common view of the alberta outdoorsman.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

I didn't read through all the posts but you guys do realize the farmers are compensated for crop damage from wildlife through money from hunting licences. Might have been mentioned already.

It's been posted in detail from articles from beef production assoc thru ersd websites and so on, it's called selective reading.

So far what knowledge I've gained is this;
Farmers have a problem with wildlife that some hunters can eradicate during hunting season and some farmers want to charge the hunters to eradicate the problem even though they get damage compensation from hunting and fishing licenses already.

Nobody has yet explained why fishing is saddled with crop damage compensation.

The conundrum to me is; farmers have $5000 in crop damage from we'll say 10 elk, after receiving financial compensation, they charge hunters $100 to go get the ten elk. However the ten elk have left the property. Farmer recoups an extra $5000, and zero elk harvested by paying hunters. Nothings guaranteed, tiz life.

Does the farmer with the elk problem gone, use the money towards keeping elk OFF the farm or make his farm more appealing to elk? The answer is the latter, as he knows that he will be compensated year after year for wildlife crop damage from ERSD/ACA and also make money from being negligent with his crop which attracts elk which attracts from paying hunters.

A negligent farmer stands to make more money than the farmer who chooses to do otherwise.

It's sort of like how certain pharmaceutical drugs require use of more drugs to combat side effects.

There are two farms at a place where I fish; one farmer does the wrap of his round bales and his neighbor doesn't. The neighbor who doesn't wrap has 100 deer perched on his bales, the wrap neighbour zero. It is blatantly obvious that wrapping farmer is not suffering loss, so why does the non-wrapping farmer continue to not wrap? I'm not suggesting anything about why he doesn't wrap, it's just something I notice.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Access will lead to expectations...i pay to access land, show me where the wild life is or why pay you....outfitting/ guiding by definition

Good point. never thought of it from that angle

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Typical the guy who delivers the hoe wants a cut

I hear there's a lady in Calgary that has a thing for car prowlers. For that I'll refer you to Gust. lol

[Gust]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

I was referring to down south. If you hunt private in many cases you pay per day. Stating the last thing i want to see is how hunting is done in the states

also posted in this article a few pages back,, and on a beef producers website at that;

http://www.producer.com/2013/11/livi...h-a-price-tag/

Opponents to the idea of paid hunting often point to the Texas model, where fees for hunting made it prohibitively expensive and there is no public or leased land that hunters can use without charge.


Todd Zimmerling, president of the Alberta Conservation Association, said his group has no position on paid hunting, but some ACA member groups would likely object, fearing fees would make hunting unaffordable.


“I don’t disagree that those who are doing a good job of managing the wildlife on the land should be compensated in some way, basically compensated for the ecological goods and services they’re providing,” said Zimmerling.


However, he said wildlife has value to other sectors besides hunters.


Conservation leasing programs and tax incentives based on the quality of habitat that ranchers provide are two options that might achieve the goal of more fully compensating ranchers, he said.