Bass boat and Alberta fishing?

[Lowrance Fishburn]

So I have a friend who recently asked me if I wanted to buy his 640lx Nitro bass boat. I don't know much about fishing in bass boats nor do I know how they handle large lakes and rough water. If anyone has any info or past experiences I would love to know about it. Worth buying or not? I'm not sure they year, I'm guess info around 2001. Cheers

[npauls]

They arent the greatest in heavy waves. If you are in southern alberta you may get beat up a bit since it gets so windy down here.

The nice thing about most is they are heavy because they are fiberglass which helps cut waves.

You will have to give a bunch of info on the boat year. Motor brand. Size. And year. Plus all the accessories that come with the boat. (Sonars, trolling motors, boat cover, and anything else like that).

The one thing i dont like about bass boats is how little cockpit space there is. If you dont mind sitting up high on decks all day they are fine but if it gets windy it is a lot nicer to sit low in the cockpit of a walleye type deep V set up.

[catnthehat]

From what I have seen over the years, a bass boat hull is not much different from most ski boat hulls, just a different interior.
They don't do well on open water with big wind
Most of the walleye style boats I have seen have deeper hulls and more interior room, as npauls mentioned.To my mind, they are far better suited to the average fisherman than a bass boat
Cat

[Lowrance Fishburn]

Awesome, thanks guys. That's probably enough for me not to buy it.

[EZM]

I really think npauls nailed it.

Unless you are a fair weather fisher on flat water - you are going to wish you were in a walleye boat to get that cold wind off of you. I also don't like they idea of taking them into the waves ..... because you are going to be real wet by the time you get back to shore I think.

A deep V walleye boat is the way to go. A Crestliner or Lund would be what I'd be looking for.

On the other hand, if you want to put a 350hp on the back and go 90mph on the water ... and flip for bass in the lily pads .... they might be a great option.

[Mackinaw]

A nitro 640 is not a good rough water boat it is only 16 feet usually comes with a 60hp but can max out with a 90. They are a great river boat but lack power and size for big water.

Mack

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

A nitro 640 is not a good rough water boat it is only 16 feet usually comes with a 60hp but can max out with a 90. They are a great river boat but lack power and size for big water.

Mack

I assume the nitro 640 is fibreglass - so for me, that wouldn't be a river boat .... unless you know where are the gravel bars and stumps are and can be guaranteed you won't hit them.

If I'm going to hit something - I think I'd rather have the tin bend rather than the glass explode.

I can't say I'd even dream of running a glass boat on most of the rivers around here.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

And fiberglass ain't the best choice for fishing either, heavier and not as durable.

Deep V and Aluminum is the way to go in Alberta unless you're someone who fishes fair weather and a few days in the summer.

Have you ever fished out of a glass walleye boat? I'm guessing you haven't based on this post. That info could not be more inaccurate.

There is no comparison in rough water ride quality or fishability between glass and aluminum. Glass wins HANDS DOWN.

As for durability, I wouldn't take a glass boat on shallow rivers, but when it comes to standard lake fishing in rough water, a well built glass boat will be far more durable. As for impacts, repair costs will be very similar. If you beat on your boat it doesn't matter if it's glass or tin, it's gonna get banged up and look bad.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by EZM

I assume the nitro 640 is fibreglass - so for me, that wouldn't be a river boat .... unless you know where are the gravel bars and stumps are and can be guaranteed you won't hit them.

If I'm going to hit something - I think I'd rather have the tin bend rather than the glass explode.

I can't say I'd even dream of running a glass boat on most of the rivers around here.

I should have been more specific a river boat in Ont or southern states not a river like the north Saskatchewan. My main meaning is it is not a big water boat.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Jet

Bass boats are great for areas where you need to get in extremely shallow and want a wide platform and they look cool on TV.

But, if you want safety, and something you can fish in all weathers / waters, then Deep V is the way to go. Bass Boats don't handle waves well. Unless you like being tossed around. Put em sideways to the waves and it can be lethal.

And fiberglass ain't the best choice for fishing either, heavier and not as durable.

Also, you don't have the coverage when it gets cold.

Deep V and Aluminum is the way to go in Alberta unless you're someone who fishes fair weather and a few days in the summer.

I disgree with the idea that a fiberglass boat is not a good fishing boat a well designed fiberglass walleye boat will handle far greater waves then an aluminum will. If you learn to drive a glass boat on large waters you will never go any other way. If you trim down a glass boat it's keel will slice the waves instead of bouncing off the top of the waves and jar you to death the way a tinned will.

Mack

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

Yes.

And you will want to read this:
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/boats/perfect-boat-hull

I'm very aware of that information. Thanks for proving my point. Fibreglass can be molded into infinite shapes. Hull shapes are very limited when working with aluminum.

And add 1000-2000lb for fiberglass hull versus Alu. More gas to move and tow.

Have you actually checked the specs on glass vs aluminum weights?

That is completely false. Comparably sized and equipped glass and tin walleye boats will be within a couple hundred pounds of each other. That small added weight of glass is more than made up for in ride quality and durability.

And fiberglass is obviously more delicate. As to repair costs well, if you punch a whole in both I'd expect costs to be similar. But, fiber damages easier for sure.

That's simply not true. Anything that scratches or damages a glass boat will also scratch or damage a tin boat, and repair costs are very similar.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

Your point was that it was stable in waves, that report proved my point that it wasn't.

That article was on the different hull designs and their inherent characteristics. The design of any given hull will determine it's stability, whether it's constructed of glass or aluminum is pretty much irrelevant other than minor differences in weight.

All hull construction is about compromise between different handling characteristics, but a good fiberglass hull is capable of offering both a superior rough water ride and excellent stability while drifting or trolling in waves. There's plenty of boats out there that will prove that point.

That wasn't your point, but sure, as I said, Fiberglass is pretty, looks cool on TV.
But personally I take practical over cool looking.

Huh?

The infinite ability to mold fiberglass means that hull designs can be much more complex than aluminum designs. That means softer riding, drier, and very stable. Anyone who's ridden in a glass walleye boat - Ranger, Lund, Warrior, Yarcraft, etc... can attest to the fact that the ride quality is superior and the stability is every bit the equal of an aluminum boat. You'll find very few aluminum boat owners that will argue that either.

The reason to choose a fiberglass boat has nothing to do with looking pretty or being cool, and everything to do with hull performance.

Yes, fiberglass is heavier.

You're wrong. For fiberglass to be strong enough to be viable, then it has to be at least 1000lb heavier for a 17ft boat. If you're only 100lb more, then you have a boat that has poor build quality, unless it's carbon fiber.

There aren't a lot of 17' glass walleye boats out there, but I think the comparison with 18' and 20' boats should prove to be a sufficient analog for comparison's sake.

Lund 1875 Pro V - 1600 lbs That's a light boat. Still nowhere close to 1000 lbs lighter though.
Crestliner 1850 Raptor - 1950 lbs
Lund 186 Pro V GL - 2100 lbs
Ranger 1850 Reata - 1850 lbs
Warrior V1898 - 2000 lbs

Lund 2075 Pro V - 2200 lbs
Crestliner Rapter 2100 - 2170 lbs
Lund 202 Pro V GL - 2700 lbs. It's a tank lol
Ranger 620FS - 2300 lbs
Warrior V203 - 2350 lbs

Need I go on? I think the numbers speak to the truth on this point.

And we're not talking tin anyway, seems there's some confusion on the material here.

Tin is a euphemism for aluminum. There's no confusion.

You obviously have no clue about materials and how they are constructed.
Alumnium will tend to bend/stretch before it breaks, it doesn't happen like that with Fiberglass.

I'll ignore the first comment. It's in no way constructive, let alone true.

As for the second, if the accident is that bad, whether the material bends/stretches or breaks, either way, your boat is badly damaged and needs repair. If you're the kind of guy that beats on his boat and doesn't care about stuff like that, then aluminum probably is the answer for you.

[npauls]

The best walleye boats on the market are all fiberglass for a reason. They are a better all around boat.
They are smoother drier ride that drift and troll better than aluminum and are just as strong as a tin boat.

I own an aluminum and when i can afford it i will be going to a glass boat.

There is a reason that most pro walleyes anglers use glass hulls.

[Talking moose]

Glass is a lot quieter.

[thenaturalwoodsman]

[QUOTE=Walleyedude;3185518]
Have you actually checked the specs on glass vs aluminum weights?
That is completely false. Comparably sized and equipped glass and tin walleye boats will be within a couple hundred pounds of each other. That small added weight of glass is more than made up for in ride quality and durability.



Walleyedude has it right! Wow, it surprises me the people that think an aluminum boat is so much lighter than a fibreglass boat of the same length?

Fibreglass gets my vote no problem! Ranger, Triton, Nitro!

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Jet

I guess what many don't realize is that a Fiberglass boat is Plastic boat (FRP) to be precise.

The reason they don't call it "Plastic" is because of the negative effect they impart.

To get the same strength in plastic as metal, you need more of it and that's heavier than metal for the same strength.

FRP will snap/break easier than Aluminum, and the Gel Coat (the protective layer), is damaged a lot easier than sheet Alumnium.

They are less durable period.

I have had both fiberglass and tinner deep v boats on lake Erie for years which can swell up like no lake in alberta could even think of. A fiberglass boat can handle far more wave then any aluminum boat could the only advantages a tinner have is in very shallow water the stability and ride of a fiberglass boat can not be matched with any tin boat.

Mack

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

First off, no one is saying that a fiberglass boat is less stable. A fiber glass bass boat versus an Aluminum Deep V is less stable, period. It's not the fiber glass that makes it less stable, it's the form factor for the hull, simple physics.

If the hull shape is the same, yes.
But, again we were talking Bass Boat = less stable.

I think you have a misconception when it comes to bass boats. They are actually more stable at rest than a deeper V walleye boat. The wide, flat footprint of the hull, along with the fact their freeboard/deck height is generally lower, makes them very stable at rest. They're basically mobile rafts to cast from.

There's a reason there's few Bass Boats on Alberta Lakes. Bass Boats do look cool, but when you look at the extra weight and the delicate nature of fiberglass and the poor stability of the platform, the disadvantages often outweigh the advantages.

Extra weight is a non issue. They're durable. They're very stable.

The same attributes that make them so stable and favourable for bass fishing are what hinder them for operation in big waves. The flat hull rides rough, the low bow has the tendency to spear waves if not driven properly, and the low freeboard is more prone to swamping.

You need a bigger motor, more gas, and it costs more to tow it.

Not really, you've miscalculated.

First, you're talking dry weight. More weight, means bigger motor, means more fuel, mean heavier trailer, means larger gross weight.

Sure some maybe 800-900 lb heavier when you factor in the gross weight, but that's close enough to 1000lb to be good enough for me, and some are more than 1000lb. Anything substantially less than 1000lb difference and they're cutting corners in the structure.

Really?

The actual dry weights are very clear.

The max HP ratings are all equivalent among the boats I posted as well. You don't need a bigger motor. That's false. On top of that, outboards of similar HP are often nearly identical in weight.

Gross weights are equivalent or within a couple hundred pounds according to the range of dry weights and HP ratings. The rest is totally dependent on how a boat is loaded and rigged. There's no need for heavier trailers (a tandem trailer is a nice upgrade regardless). Claiming that fiberglass boats are 1000 lbs heavier than an equivalent aluminum boat is quite simply, nonsense. I've posted the data, feel free to post the data to prove otherwise.

Claiming that if any fiberglass boat doesn't meet your preconceived notions of weight it must be of inferior quality is merely your opinion, nothing more.

Both have advantages, both have disadvantages, you obviously love your bass boat and that's fine, it's probably a lot prettier than my Deep V because it was molded and not welded and is made out of mat and resin and not metal.

I don't own a bass boat. I own a deep V fiberglass walleye boat. Any time you'd like to go for a ride and do some fishing, the nastier the weather the better, send me a PM. I'll be glad to take you out. Be warned though, you'll never look at your aluminum boat the same way again.

[Andy44]

Well said Jet

[Walleyedude]

I'm done with the back and forth. I'm not sure what else there is to say. I haven't been offering opinion, I've been putting forth facts, complete with actual data. Something I haven't seen in return, only speculation and snarky one line responses that don't address the point being made.

There's a reason why there's 100's of thousands of fiberglass bass boats in North America, and it has nothing to do with the fact they're pretty. They get used hard on all kinds of shallow waters, stump infested reservoirs, and big, windy lakes. They aren't trailer queens. Simply put, they're the most stable, best performing boats for bass fishing. They're not ideal for multi-species fishing though, which is why I don't own one.

As for weight of fiberglass vs. aluminum. The point is made, the difference is very minor. If anyone has any doubts, they can do the legwork themselves. (Much as I'm sure you did.) The minor difference in weight is actually beneficial, it results in a better riding boat. It also results in a more stable boat at rest due to the fact the boat sits lower in the water rather than bobbing around like a cork the way an aluminum boat does. The slight increase in weight (a couple hundred pounds as I correctly stated several posts ago) is more than offset by the ability to mold a more efficient hull.

You're offering only opinion when it comes to performance, added weight, bigger trailers, more fuel, etc, etc... You've repeatedly stated it, but you've offered nothing in the way of actual facts or data to support it.

The offer of a test ride stands, I promise you'll be safe lol. I try not to judge people by a single interaction on the internet...

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

And here's some "REAL" facts about Tin versus Plastic boats.
(or Aluminum versus FRP):

Fiberglass: Hit something in the water or run aground, the hull will crack or splinter if the impact is severe enough. Some of the more expensive FRP boats have a foam core sandwich in between the layers of fiberglass to allow the boat to float in the event of a catastrophic hull breach. Nobody plans to hit anything or run aground, but most fiberglass boat owners have in the back of the mind, will their family be safe if this ever happens. Repairing that kind of damage is unsightly and expensive.

Aluminum: If aluminum gets dented it usually doesn’t require any work at all. Should a hole be punched in it, the “wound” is easily and cheaply repaired.
And if you hit something, the boat stays intact most of the time.

With the aluminum being lighter, the engines do not have to work as hard to push the boat through the water. Aluminum will ride higher in the water and plane much quicker as a result of the lighter weight. And yes, that means all things equal, smaller engines, less fuel, smaller trailers and less fuel and strain on your vehicle towing.

Aluminum requires very little maintenance apart from washing.

**** Aluminum has 10 times the shear strength of fiberglass. ****

And if that ain't enough, then:

A welded aluminum boat typically comes with a lifetime hull warranty. Now does your fiberglass boat come with one?

So yes, I'll sacrifice a little ride quality for a lighter, structurally stronger boat that is safer when it's a fishing boat used on inland lakes.

I don't see much for facts, lots of your opinions and completely unfounded scare tactics though.

I could post a bunch of links comparing the strength of fiberglass and aluminum and links to how boats are actually constructed (and coast guard flotation/damage regulations). I'm sure I could even track down a bunch of pictures of boats damaged by impacts for comparison and we could have another long back and forth, but what would be the point? To get more of the same responses?

I really only responded to this post to say, YES, absolutely my fiberglass boat comes with a lifetime hull warranty. Most good fiberglass hulls do.

As for the safety of aluminum vs. fiberglass boats on inland lakes, well...

[Mackinaw]

If aluminum is better and safer why are 90% of charter boats I've been on fiberglass

Mack

[58thecat]

It is easy see what a guide uses day in and day out as in rentals to the general public, who else to test the ability, durability of a boat as in the general public.

Good luck on your quest.

[trophyhunter]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

It is easy see what a guide uses day in and day out as in rentals to the general public, who else to test the ability, durability of a boat as in the general public.

Good luck on your quest.

x2

[Newellknik]

If you have a familly , and limited boating experience , and fish in
Popular Alberta Lakes then you want a Deep V , 16 ' at least ,
Sport WT model , max HP for that boat model .
As has been said that no freeboard , small cockpit, is not only
Dangerous for children but not a lot of fun to fish out of .
The bass boat is designed for small shallow water , when fishing
It is quite wind resistant , can be launched on Dew . A 2001 should
Be nearly free , that's the good point .
As a ten year Lund employee I have had a dozen Lunds , I like tin
My last boat was a Warrior 1866 SC , glass , once you got it in the
Water , what a boat , what a ride . I had one of the first Tuffy glass
In Eastern Manitoba , it didn't like rocks or gravel .....ouch .
Thank goodness we live in pavement land .

[EZM]

If the thread is simply an inquiry of the hull design - shallow angle bass hulls and low cockpit depth versus a deep v design like a walleye boat - then the answer for multi species fishing, in cooler weather, on bigger and rougher lakes would lead you to the logical conclusion a deep v is the way to go for fishing out here in Western Canada.

As far as materials - if you compare a Lund Tyee GL (Glass) versus a Lund Tyee Tin - the glass will be 500 lbs heavier (compared a 186 GL @ 2100lbs versus a 1900 tin @ 1600lbs).

Logically, one would think, the heavier and slightly smaller boat would sit down a little better and possibly sway a little less - but I can assure you - since my cousin has the GL and I have the tin, with identical motors .........

You really can't see much of a difference. Neither of us could even tell. My tinner came up out of the water quicker, and planed up faster, and got to top speed quicker. His glass boat looked like it ran with a little less bounce when running at 65 km across the water across moderate chop.

It was fun running the boats around side by side all weekend.

But it's more about the design and angle of the hull and cockpit depth that determines suitability (for the intended purpose) in my mind.

[curtis_rak]

As someone who has owned both and not just Googling weights and speculating, I will chime in.

I currently own and fish a bass hull. I sold my aluminum v-hull about a year and a half ago, went to the USA and bought one. I previously had a 16.5' Sylvan (full windshield) and went to a 20' ProCraft Fish and Ski.

I have no regrets whatsoever. The ProCraft handles rough water 100x better than my Sylvan did and it runs way tighter due to the 1-PC fibreglass construction.

Seeing as you guys are talking numbers... My boat weighs 1850lbs with a 150 Opti on the back. A 20' Tyee weighs 1980lbs with a 250 on the back. So they weigh the same essentially if they had the same motor. No weight savings at all between the two.

You do have to be more careful with fibreglass because it chips and cracks easier when you hit things.... My suggestion, don't hit things. (With either boat).

Anyways.... Don't knock it til you've tried it is my message. I love my bass hull and won't be going back to aluminum any time soon.

[ATF]

Originally Posted by Jet

And here's some "REAL" facts about Tin versus Plastic boats.
(or Aluminum versus FRP):

Aluminum: If aluminum gets dented it usually doesn’t require any work at all. Should a hole be punched in it, the “wound” is easily and cheaply repaired.
And if you hit something, the boat stays intact most of the time.

And if that ain't enough, then:

A welded aluminum boat typically comes with a lifetime hull warranty. Now does your fiberglass boat come with one?

So yes, I'll sacrifice a little ride quality for a lighter, structurally stronger boat that is safer when it's a fishing boat used on inland lakes.

I've owned several tin boats. Riveted and welded. Repairs done outside of the hull are not cheap and easy unless you know someone that welds aluminum and works for beer and depending on the damage I wouldn't say the right way to do it either. You can make emergency repairs with JB weld though that maybe could salvage a trip if need be.

But your statement about hull warranties have absolutely no bearing on this topic. Lund, who sells both by the way, does have a lifetime hull warranty on their glass boats as does Ranger etc...
The problem with those lifetime hull warranties is the fine print. It applies to all boats but in the case of the tinners they only guarantee defects to the welding on the seams or on the transoms and most manufacturers expect you to bring the boat back to their plant for repairs. Then you may get to negotiate a local repair which may, or likely may not be anywhere near as neat and pretty as what you would want to see on your boat.
My experience has been that external aluminum welding on a mass produced thin metal boat is not something that just any shop can do and guarantee a good repair. As for me I'm done with aluminum and moving on to glass.

[Lowrance Fishburn]

Lot's of good info, thanks guys. Probably more confused than when I started but that's ok lol. I think I am leaning towards deep-v aluminum, mostly for durability. I like the idea of shoring my boat and the hull bumping off a few rocks and not having to worry as much as a fiberglass boat. Aluminum being lighter also might mean its easier to get over some mud roads and bumpy terrain without damage. The bass option seemed like an ok idea but the low profile does make me think that in big waves its gonna be tough and then there is the exposed to wind factor. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. Cheers.

[SamSteele]

Best thing to do might be ask your buddy what he's going to replace it with. That would give you a clue as to how the unit performed for him, where he fishes.

To me this isn't a question of fibreglass vs aluminum but rather hull shape. Same hull shape in different materials should perform pretty close to the same. My issue with bass style boats is that they tend to have a flatter hull shape which adds stability and floor space, but can get rough on big water. I also think you need to be a more experienced boater to run them properly/safely in rougher waters.

[thenaturalwoodsman]

Originally Posted by curtis_rak

As someone who has owned both and not just Googling weights and speculating, I will chime in.

I currently own and fish a bass hull. I sold my aluminum v-hull about a year and a half ago, went to the USA and bought one. I previously had a 16.5' Sylvan (full windshield) and went to a 20' ProCraft Fish and Ski.

I have no regrets whatsoever. The ProCraft handles rough water 100x better than my Sylvan did and it runs way tighter due to the 1-PC fibreglass construction.

Seeing as you guys are talking numbers... My boat weighs 1850lbs with a 150 Opti on the back. A 20' Tyee weighs 1980lbs with a 250 on the back. So they weigh the same essentially if they had the same motor. No weight savings at all between the two.

You do have to be more careful with fibreglass because it chips and cracks easier when you hit things.... My suggestion, don't hit things. (With either boat).

Anyways.... Don't knock it til you've tried it is my message. I love my bass hull and won't be going back to aluminum any time soon.

Nice boat!! My buddy had the 19 foot procraft with the 200hp mercury. it was nutty! Looked good, Fast, it was fun to watch it go down the water!