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Old 05-27-2013, 11:04 AM
JimPS JimPS is offline
 
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Default Another Weekend of Peace in the Gun Free Zone

17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend.

Gun control sure works, doesn't it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=9116604

"Chicago requires that all firearms be registered with the police department.[27] Gun owners are required to have a Chicago Firearm Permit.[28] The city has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 12 rounds of ammunition.[29] Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm at least 48 hours in advance.[30] Chicago also prohibits the sale of firearms within city limits.[31] "


It's nice to see how well it's all working out....

Jim
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:46 PM
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I miss the days when you could just send all the criminals to Australia. You know, before all the beer and the surfing.

Maybe we can send them to live on that garbage pile in the Pacific
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JimPS View Post
17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend.

Gun control sure works, doesn't it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=9116604

"Chicago requires that all firearms be registered with the police department.[27] Gun owners are required to have a Chicago Firearm Permit.[28] The city has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 12 rounds of ammunition.[29] Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm at least 48 hours in advance.[30] Chicago also prohibits the sale of firearms within city limits.[31] "


It's nice to see how well it's all working out....

Jim
Chicago has A population of 9,461,105.

That's bigger than 40 states.

That's more than New Jersey, That's 13 times the population of Alaska.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:58 PM
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Chicago has A population of 9,461,105.

That's bigger than 40 states.

That's more than New Jersey, That's 13 times the population of Alaska.
Umm, OK. So it didn't happen? Or you are making the point that those few murders aren't statistically relevant? Maybe you are saying that gun control doesn't work.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:22 PM
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Umm, OK. So it didn't happen? Or you are making the point that those few murders aren't statistically relevant? Maybe you are saying that gun control doesn't work.
Louisiana has a murder rate of 11.2 per hundred thousand.

Illinois has a murder rate of 5.6 per hundred thousand.

Tell me how having no gun control helps lower the murder rate.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:34 PM
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Murder rate per hundred thousand


Chicago 15.9

Baltimore 31.3
Atlanta 20.7
Cincinnati 20.5
Cleveland 18.6
Detroit 48.2
Kansas city 23.4
Memphis 17.9
Miami 16.8
New Orleans 57.6
Newark 33.8
Oakland 26.3
Philadelphia 21.2
St Louis 35.3
Stockton 19.7
Washington 17.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate


Don't let the facts get in front of your witch hunt.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Murder rate per hundred thousand


Chicago 15.9

Baltimore 31.3
Atlanta 20.7
Cincinnati 20.5
Cleveland 18.6
Detroit 48.2
Kansas city 23.4
Memphis 17.9
Miami 16.8
New Orleans 57.6
Newark 33.8
Oakland 26.3
Philadelphia 21.2
St Louis 35.3
Stockton 19.7
Washington 17.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate


Don't let the facts get in front of your witch hunt.
Or yours. Every major city in Texas has much lower murder rates than Chicago despite having little gun control.

Plano, Texas 1.9
El Paso, Texas 2.4
Corpus Christi, Texas 3.9
San Antonio, Texas 6.6
Austin, Texas 3.5
Arlington, Texas 5.9
Fort Worth, Texas 6.3
Dallas, Texas 10.9
Houston, Texas 9.2

The point is, murder rates are not affected by gun control.
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Murder rate per hundred thousand


Chicago 15.9

Baltimore 31.3
Atlanta 20.7
Cincinnati 20.5
Cleveland 18.6
Detroit 48.2
Kansas city 23.4
Memphis 17.9
Miami 16.8
New Orleans 57.6
Newark 33.8
Oakland 26.3
Philadelphia 21.2
St Louis 35.3
Stockton 19.7
Washington 17.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate


Don't let the facts get in front of your witch hunt.
You quoted the overall murder rates. Perhaps quote the ones specifically using firearms to be accurate. There could be cities where stabbings, strangulations or beatings are experiencing statistical spikes. We'll not mention glossing over factors such as economic depressions, overall crime rates or any other social factors such as education and literacy rates; its obviously all caused by guns.

Witch hunt, indeed
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Murder rate per hundred thousand


Chicago 15.9

Baltimore 31.3
Atlanta 20.7
Cincinnati 20.5
Cleveland 18.6
Detroit 48.2
Kansas city 23.4
Memphis 17.9
Miami 16.8
New Orleans 57.6
Newark 33.8
Oakland 26.3
Philadelphia 21.2
St Louis 35.3
Stockton 19.7
Washington 17.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate


Don't let the facts get in front of your witch hunt.
Nice try. Have a look at the rates involving firearms only.

Ahh beaten too it, never the less.
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Old 05-27-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Murder rate per hundred thousand


Chicago 15.9

Baltimore 31.3
Atlanta 20.7
Cincinnati 20.5
Cleveland 18.6
Detroit 48.2
Kansas city 23.4
Memphis 17.9
Miami 16.8
New Orleans 57.6
Newark 33.8
Oakland 26.3
Philadelphia 21.2
St Louis 35.3
Stockton 19.7
Washington 17.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate


Don't let the facts get in front of your witch hunt.
X2.If you are going to defend gun control how about you start by using firearm crime numbers. It makes your argument much more believable.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Chicago has A population of 9,461,105.

That's bigger than 40 states.

That's more than New Jersey, That's 13 times the population of Alaska.


"17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend."


Comforting facts for the ones who got shot. I know I'd feel better. On top of being shot I'd be loser in the stats game.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:13 PM
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Meh ... I used to live close to Chicago. Although a little high this time, those ^ stats are close to normal for a long weekend there.

Now, back to the rant . . .

TF
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimPS View Post
17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend.

Gun control sure works, doesn't it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=9116604

"Chicago requires that all firearms be registered with the police department.[27] Gun owners are required to have a Chicago Firearm Permit.[28] The city has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 12 rounds of ammunition.[29] Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm at least 48 hours in advance.[30] Chicago also prohibits the sale of firearms within city limits.[31] "


It's nice to see how well it's all working out....

Jim
Murder rate in Chicago is high because:

1) Stolen guns and illegally acquired guns from outside Chicago make there way there.

2) Gun crime is highest in the areas of the US with the highest poverty...Chicago is in a tough way economically.

3) Population is huge.

Gun laws if used as an argument will only prove lax gun laws outside Chicago is the reason for the crime...not gun laws within Chicago. To fix there problems you need to fix the root cause...poverty and then work to stop the import illegal guns.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Murder rate in Chicago is high because:

1) Stolen guns and illegally acquired guns from outside Chicago make there way there.

2) Gun crime is highest in the areas of the US with the highest poverty...Chicago is in a tough way economically.

3) Population is huge.

Gun laws if used as an argument will only prove lax gun laws outside Chicago is the reason for the crime...not gun laws within Chicago. To fix there problems you need to fix the root cause...poverty and then work to stop the import illegal guns.
Poverty does not cause violence. Certain sub-cultures celebrate it. A lot of the gangsters in the lower mainland were middle class kids.

Gun laws are to violence what prohibition is to pot smoking. What people desire, people acquire. One way or another.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:45 PM
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Poverty does not cause violence. Certain sub-cultures celebrate it. A lot of the gangsters in the lower mainland were middle class kids.

Gun laws are to violence what prohibition is to pot smoking. What people desire, people acquire. One way or another.
You sure poverty stricken areas don't experience higher crime rates?
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:11 AM
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You sure poverty stricken areas don't experience higher crime rates?
Not every impoverished area has a problem with violence. Those with gang and substance abuse issues do. Remember, correlation does not equal causation. It's about culture, and strength of family. All the rules of state can't compensate for a messed up culture.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Murder rate in Chicago is high because:

1) Stolen guns and illegally acquired guns from outside Chicago make there way there.

2) Gun crime is highest in the areas of the US with the highest poverty...Chicago is in a tough way economically.

3) Population is huge.

Gun laws if used as an argument will only prove lax gun laws outside Chicago is the reason for the crime...not gun laws within Chicago. To fix there problems you need to fix the root cause...poverty and then work to stop the import illegal guns.

How can lax gun laws in low crime areas be blamed for gun crime in Chicago? That defies logic. Blaming the gun for dirt bags actions is the same as blaming skateboarders for your perch problem. Doesn't really work.

I have to agree fixing poverty will help everyone. Good luck with that though.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:47 PM
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How can lax gun laws in low crime areas be blamed for gun crime in Chicago? That defies logic. Blaming the gun for dirt bags actions is the same as blaming skateboarders for your perch problem. Doesn't really work.

I have to agree fixing poverty will help everyone. Good luck with that though.
This was rehashed over and over again on other threads. There are lots of stats that shows the guns used in the crimes are illegally brought in from out of state where background checks are not required.

Gun's don't kill people without a person holding onto it and unfortunately good people sell guns to bad guys. I am all for good guys having guns and bad guys not. So they need to stop the problem at the source rather than going in circle arguments.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:01 PM
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How about the murder rate in Edmonton GMA, 50 homicides in 2011? Poverty?
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:08 PM
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How about the murder rate in Edmonton GMA, 50 homicides in 2011? Poverty?
If you want to talk statistic you can not just throw out one Canadian city. Look up per capita income in Canada and then crime levels for those areas and see. It would make for an interesting read.

If you want mico statistics just look up crime rates in Bowness versus Elbow Park.

Plus we are talking US cities with US gun laws. Gun crime in Canada is gigantically lower than the US. Lots of stats on other threads to review.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:46 PM
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17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend.
Only 6 dead out of 17 people shot? That's only about a 30% success rate.....Pathetic.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:48 PM
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Only 6 dead out of 17 people shot? That's only about a 30% success rate.....Pathetic.
I concur.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:13 PM
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The UK doesn't keep stats on gang violence. I wonder why? This reference from the BBC is about all I could find. Not overly helpful, but interesting. How is it possible that 60%of shootings are gang related. I thought guns were all but banned in England. It should be easy to keep them out, it is an island after all. (SARCASIM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15238377

"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:23 PM
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"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:30 PM
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Stats, shmats! Better to have a gun and not need it....
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:40 PM
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Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
It doesn't say. Ill see what I can find when I drop the gang related part of the search.

Edit

I'm not finding anything.
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Last edited by hillbillyreefer; 05-27-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:47 AM
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Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
Does London have gun control ?
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:17 PM
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The UK doesn't keep stats on gang violence. I wonder why? This reference from the BBC is about all I could find. Not overly helpful, but interesting. How is it possible that 60%of shootings are gang related. I thought guns were all but banned in England. It should be easy to keep them out, it is an island after all. (SARCASIM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15238377

"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
I would just love to see a side by side comparison of who is being killed.

I do rank random killing of innocent people or murder for robbery, rape etc. as a different ranking that gang on gang violence for instance. Them folks should all be put onto a island...last man standing gets a free trip to Disneyworld before being sent to Saudi Arabia with a kilo of coke in his carry on.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:34 PM
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I would just love to see a side by side comparison of who is being killed.

I do rank random killing of innocent people or murder for robbery, rape etc. as a different ranking that gang on gang violence for instance. Them folks should all be put onto a island...last man standing gets a free trip to Disneyworld before being sent to Saudi Arabia with a kilo of coke in his carry on.
That would be very useful data. Gang affiliation, previous record, ethnicity, age, weapon, country of birth, sex, etc etc. And uniform data around the globe it would make things so much nicer. I looked up Venezuela but uncle Hugo quit keeping crime stats. I can only guess why!
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:55 PM
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The murder rate has everything to do with the demographics of the United States and little to do with guns.

Murder Rate per 100,000
Africa:17
Mexico: 23.7
UK: 1.2
USA: 4.8

USA is actually doing pretty good for what they have to work with.
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